J
John Larkin
Guest
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
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A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 3:25:36â¯PM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
They aren\'t - for an ungapped cored. The coupling factor would be 0.997 which is pretty ordinary.
At least one of them has a printed winding, but you don\'t seem to have noticed.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
They aren\'t - for an ungapped cored. The coupling factor would be 0.997 which is pretty ordinary.
At least one of them has a printed winding, but you don\'t seem to have noticed.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<drni0i16g61221o3p0ojbc28ka84n24dfd@4ax.com>:
Datasheet says:
DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts
Now THAT is new!!
AI writing datasheets?
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
<drni0i16g61221o3p0ojbc28ka84n24dfd@4ax.com>:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Datasheet says:
DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts
Now THAT is new!!
AI writing datasheets?
A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 5:55:47â¯PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Jan\'s natural stupidity in failing to understand what is meant. You do have to add some switching transistors to turn the DC going in into it to AC, and some kind of rectification to convert it back to DC when it comes out the other side. Jan is dim enough not to realise this.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On a sunny day (Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
drni0i16g61221o3p...@4ax.com>:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Datasheet says:
DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts
Now THAT is new!!
AI writing datasheets?
Jan\'s natural stupidity in failing to understand what is meant. You do have to add some switching transistors to turn the DC going in into it to AC, and some kind of rectification to convert it back to DC when it comes out the other side. Jan is dim enough not to realise this.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
F
Fred Bloggs
Guest
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:55:47â¯AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
No it\'s not, it\'s been around 70 years.
\"DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts\"- means DC-DC converter circuit applications in the 46-70 Watt range.
On a sunny day (Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
drni0i16g61221o3p...@4ax.com>:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Datasheet says:
DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts
Now THAT is new!!
No it\'s not, it\'s been around 70 years.
\"DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts\"- means DC-DC converter circuit applications in the 46-70 Watt range.
AI writing datasheets?
L
legg
Guest
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
Too bad they didn\'t think to interleave the output winding terminals.
RL
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Too bad they didn\'t think to interleave the output winding terminals.
RL
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 10:02:49 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
There are likely geometric tangles on the PC that restrict crossovers.
It must be interesting to design multilayer PCB windings like this.
There are thermal considerations too. I could take one apart and x-ray
it.
I\'ve considered making transmission-line transformers integral to
PCBs, in which case they have no terminals as such. The geometry
issues are tricky. I\'ve always used coax so far.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Too bad they didn\'t think to interleave the output winding terminals.
RL
There are likely geometric tangles on the PC that restrict crossovers.
It must be interesting to design multilayer PCB windings like this.
There are thermal considerations too. I could take one apart and x-ray
it.
I\'ve considered making transmission-line transformers integral to
PCBs, in which case they have no terminals as such. The geometry
issues are tricky. I\'ve always used coax so far.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 2:19:21â¯AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
That\'s what blind via\'s are for.
> It must be interesting to design multilayer PCB windings like this.
People have been doing it for some twenty years now.
> There are thermal considerations too. I could take one apart and x-ray it..
It\'s a specialised area of printed circuit manufacturing - you need thin substrates and thick copper to get a decent fill factor and tolerably low winding resistances
Of course you have.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
You don\'t have to think nearly as hard about what you you are doing. Twisted pair is another sort of transmission line, but harder to terminate neatly..
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 10:02:49 -0500, legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800, John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Too bad they didn\'t think to interleave the output winding terminals.
There are likely geometric tangles on the PC that restrict crossovers.
That\'s what blind via\'s are for.
> It must be interesting to design multilayer PCB windings like this.
People have been doing it for some twenty years now.
> There are thermal considerations too. I could take one apart and x-ray it..
It\'s a specialised area of printed circuit manufacturing - you need thin substrates and thick copper to get a decent fill factor and tolerably low winding resistances
I\'ve considered making transmission-line transformers integral to PCBs, in which case they have no terminals as such. The geometry issues are tricky. I\'ve always used coax so far.
Of course you have.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
You don\'t have to think nearly as hard about what you you are doing. Twisted pair is another sort of transmission line, but harder to terminate neatly..
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
B
boB
Guest
On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 05:12:14 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys, in all fairness, I think that Jan was kidding.
boB
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 1:55:47?AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
drni0i16g61221o3p...@4ax.com>:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Datasheet says:
DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts
Now THAT is new!!
No it\'s not, it\'s been around 70 years.
\"DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts\"- means DC-DC converter circuit applications in the 46-70 Watt range.
AI writing datasheets?
Guys, in all fairness, I think that Jan was kidding.
boB
F
Fred Bloggs
Guest
On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 11:25:36â¯PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Better link:
https://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-Datasheets/PLN.pdf
Looks like leakage is running about 0.3% of primary inductance.
I have a feeling it\'s one of those things that hits 50oC temperature rise in operation.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Better link:
https://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-Datasheets/PLN.pdf
Looks like leakage is running about 0.3% of primary inductance.
I have a feeling it\'s one of those things that hits 50oC temperature rise in operation.
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 2023-03-09 10:19, John Larkin wrote:
board house. The epsilon of \'FR-4\' can range between 3.8 and 4.5
depending on the vendor.
Interesting transformer, if a bit on the pricey side--with all those
windings you could do some useful things, such as isolated supplies,
supplies riding other rails, and so forth.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
Tolerance issues are likely as well, especially if you use more than oneOn Thu, 09 Mar 2023 10:02:49 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Too bad they didn\'t think to interleave the output winding terminals.
RL
There are likely geometric tangles on the PC that restrict crossovers.
It must be interesting to design multilayer PCB windings like this.
There are thermal considerations too. I could take one apart and x-ray
it.
I\'ve considered making transmission-line transformers integral to
PCBs, in which case they have no terminals as such. The geometry
issues are tricky. I\'ve always used coax so far.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
board house. The epsilon of \'FR-4\' can range between 3.8 and 4.5
depending on the vendor.
Interesting transformer, if a bit on the pricey side--with all those
windings you could do some useful things, such as isolated supplies,
supplies riding other rails, and so forth.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 12:09:27 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Yes, I was thinking about playing with windings. I\'d have to violate
their rule about \"windings to be connected in parallel\".
I\'ve ordered some to play with.
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-03-09 10:19, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 09 Mar 2023 10:02:49 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Too bad they didn\'t think to interleave the output winding terminals.
RL
There are likely geometric tangles on the PC that restrict crossovers.
It must be interesting to design multilayer PCB windings like this.
There are thermal considerations too. I could take one apart and x-ray
it.
I\'ve considered making transmission-line transformers integral to
PCBs, in which case they have no terminals as such. The geometry
issues are tricky. I\'ve always used coax so far.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmecggbi463ipes/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
Tolerance issues are likely as well, especially if you use more than one
board house. The epsilon of \'FR-4\' can range between 3.8 and 4.5
depending on the vendor.
Interesting transformer, if a bit on the pricey side--with all those
windings you could do some useful things, such as isolated supplies,
supplies riding other rails, and so forth.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Yes, I was thinking about playing with windings. I\'d have to violate
their rule about \"windings to be connected in parallel\".
I\'ve ordered some to play with.
T
Tabby
Guest
On Thursday, 9 March 2023 at 06:55:47 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Any transformer can do dc... just not for very long.
On a sunny day (Wed, 08 Mar 2023 20:25:21 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
drni0i16g61221o3p...@4ax.com>:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PLN048-ED21A12S?qs=amGC7iS6iy98aQ6xtiKjiA%3D%3D
Leakage inductances are crazy low.
Datasheet says:
DC-DC transformer 46 to 70 watts
Now THAT is new!!
AI writing datasheets?
Any transformer can do dc... just not for very long.