Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore

J

John Fields

Guest
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields
 
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:46:06 -0600, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com>
wrote:

Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
Click to expand...
Wow! Very pretty! Needs some animation, though. ;)

Jon
 
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:46:06 -0600, in sci.electronics.design John
Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
Click to expand...
Ah the black art of confusion.

I just wondered who the intended audience was, and

is there a better expalnation of "rejected energy" and

do all the figures add up to 100%, which I leave as an exercise for
the reader


martin

Serious error.
All shortcuts have disappeared.
Screen. Mind. Both are blank.
 
I wonder what lost energy in transportation is? - about 4x the useful
energy!
- energy lost in the power grid?
- inefficiency in vehicle drives?

Must look up the original.

Interesting though.

Chris.


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields
Click to expand...
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields
Click to expand...
 
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields
Click to expand...
Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Bill.
 
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, "Bill Bailley" <JustMe@Home> wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Bill.
Click to expand...
One of the great graphs of all time is Minard's map of Napoleon's
march to Moscow and back. In one simple drawing we see the location,
date, size of the army, and temperature. He started with 422,000 men
and finished back in Poland with about 10,000. Six variables are
plotted. It's in Tufte's great book "The Visual Display of
Quantitative Information."

John
 
Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.
 
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, Bill Bailley wrote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Is it anything like the Tokyo train/el/subway system?
Click to expand...

Thanks,
Rich
 
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:41:18 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:20:37 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, Bill Bailley wrote:
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Is it anything like the Tokyo train/el/subway system?

Thanks,
Rich

Same order of magnitude. Both are zone systems. Tokyo is about twice
the population of London AFAIUI.

London: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/colormap.pdf

Tokyo: http://www.bento.com/subtop5.html

Paris: http://www.ratp.info/picts/miniplan/metro120x84.pdf
Click to expand...
Cool! Thanks!
Rich
 
In article <1107823820.059844.38140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
tlbs101@excite.com says...
Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.

IC engines are in the 30% efficiency range.
Click to expand...

--
Keith
 
Keith Williams wrote:
In article <1107823820.059844.38140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
tlbs101@excite.com says...

Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.


IC engines are in the 30% efficiency range.
Click to expand...
Even approaching 40%, for deisel. The trouble is, that this is only at
an ideal operating condition. So for use in a vehicle with varied
conditions, the overall long term average efficiency is somewhat less.


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov -- NOTE: Remove "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
 
In article <cuamjk11q6s@news4.newsguy.com>, crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov
says...
Keith Williams wrote:
In article <1107823820.059844.38140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
tlbs101@excite.com says...

Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.


IC engines are in the 30% efficiency range.

Even approaching 40%, for deisel. The trouble is, that this is only at
an ideal operating condition. So for use in a vehicle with varied
conditions, the overall long term average efficiency is somewhat less.
Click to expand...
True, but hardly 5-15%.

--
Keith
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote (in <MPG.1c72ac2cf33231dc9898f5@news.individual.net>) about
'Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore', on Tue, 8 Feb 2005:

True, but hardly 5-15%.
Click to expand...
When stopped in traffic congestion for 70% of the journey time?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
In article <B9uFZUGmiOCCFwAw@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk says...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote (in <MPG.1c72ac2cf33231dc9898f5@news.individual.net>) about
'Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore', on Tue, 8 Feb 2005:

True, but hardly 5-15%.

When stopped in traffic congestion for 70% of the journey time?
Click to expand...
Move.

--
Keith
 
I recall reading that range of efficiencies (5-15%) for IC engines
years ago. Perhaps those numbers were for big 8-cylinder
"gas-guzzlers". I can believe that efficiencies have vastly improved
in the past decade or two.

Maybe the LLNL chart is based on those old figures for IC efficiencies.
 
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 12:41:51 -0800, tlbs wrote:

I recall reading that range of efficiencies (5-15%) for IC engines
years ago. Perhaps those numbers were for big 8-cylinder
"gas-guzzlers". I can believe that efficiencies have vastly improved
in the past decade or two.

Maybe the LLNL chart is based on those old figures for IC efficiencies.
Click to expand...
5% is a low number for a 20s design, much less anything recent. Always
challenge numbers that look silly. A quick web search would show numbers
in the 30s. Web searches are wonderful things.

--
Keith
 
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