Intelligent buildings

M

Mark Carroll

Guest
I'm interested in toying with intelligent building stuff to take a a
case study for a demo, and real hardware tends to impress more than
simulations.

The sort of scenario I have in mind is having centralized computer
control in the loop between switches and lights, monitoring door
contacts and activity-noticing passive infra red sensors, between
climate controls, thermometers, and heaters, etc. so that we can play
with simple things like monitoring patterns of lighting usage, then
replaying them to make the building look still-occupied, and more
complex things like trying to tell when someone's left the heating way
up and the door open but has probably left the area.

Here are my guesses about a cheap, adequate solution.

For a small enough building, one could have a single computer talking
to all these things on a common low-speed serial bus. There seem to be
stock chips around that can talk a range of serial protocols, and a
bus with unremarkable wiring and haphazard topology would probably
work well enough. The computer could be preset with what is on the bus
where. There would be single-bit things like switches that the
computer polls frequently to check their state. There would be
single-bit things like lights that it writes to (the written value is
held by a latch, and the control signal/circuitry is isolated from
what may someday be a real 110V AC circuit by a suitable relay). There
might be things like thermometers and dimmer switch arrangements that
convey more than a bit of information.

Each entity on the bus could be addressed by the computer via a unique
device ID, that matches DIP switch settings on the little circuit
board of the entity, an ID with enough bits that random/corrupted data
is unlikely to match.

It seems that a couple of wires would be needed to carry 0V, +5V,
another couple of wires might be needed for sync and data lines for
selecting particular devices by ID (wires which might double for both
"selecting" the device, and telling it how long to keep its state
wired to the bus once selected), and maybe a separate wire to carry
that state, whether single-bit or analog signal, input or output. It
seems unnecessary to carry multi-bit digital data around as the read
or written state of the entity, given that the devices I can think of
that have more than binary state don't need that state to be perfectly
accurately reported - there can just be one A/D and one D/A converter
at the computer end that gets it approximately correct.

So, how crazy does that sound? Would others do it differently? How few
wires can I use while keeping everything fairly easy to design in a
compact, cheap way? Before I start working out specifics, I figured
it's probably good to make sure that the overall concept isn't already
seriously flawed.

-- Mark
 
In article <Xai*OlD4p@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Mark Carroll <markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
(snip)
stock chips around that can talk a range of serial protocols, and a
(snip)
another couple of wires might be needed for sync and data lines for
(snip)

I should add that "serial protocol" sounds a bit grand given that a
shift register would probably do. An entity could probably be selected
while the upper bits match its ID and the lower bits match a standard
pattern that is not a subsequence in any ID.

The main thing I don't get is how to store analog state without drift,
for an entity representing a dimmable light or something. It'd be nice
if there were a simple elegant solution, or something prepackaged on an
IC, instead of me having to use an A/D converter, a few flip flops, and
a D/A converter.

-- Mark
 
Whereas On 11 Oct 2003 14:00:29 +0100 (BST), Mark Carroll
<markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
In article <Xai*OlD4p@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Mark Carroll <markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
(snip)
stock chips around that can talk a range of serial protocols, and a
(snip)
another couple of wires might be needed for sync and data lines for
(snip)

I should add that "serial protocol" sounds a bit grand given that a
shift register would probably do. An entity could probably be selected
while the upper bits match its ID and the lower bits match a standard
pattern that is not a subsequence in any ID.
Use micros, each custom programmed with it's operating code, with its
address coded into the code, or an on board EEPROM.


The main thing I don't get is how to store analog state without drift,
for an entity representing a dimmable light or something. It'd be nice
if there were a simple elegant solution, or something prepackaged on an
IC, instead of me having to use an A/D converter, a few flip flops, and
a D/A converter.

-- Mark
You'd trigger a triac as needed, no need to do anything directly
analog.
--
Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat
 
Mark Carroll <markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:<fPD*7+F4p@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>...
In article <Xai*OlD4p@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Mark Carroll <markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
(snip)
stock chips around that can talk a range of serial protocols, and a
(snip)
another couple of wires might be needed for sync and data lines for
(snip)

I should add that "serial protocol" sounds a bit grand given that a
shift register would probably do. An entity could probably be selected
while the upper bits match its ID and the lower bits match a standard
pattern that is not a subsequence in any ID.

The main thing I don't get is how to store analog state without drift,
for an entity representing a dimmable light or something. It'd be nice
if there were a simple elegant solution, or something prepackaged on an
IC, instead of me having to use an A/D converter, a few flip flops, and
a D/A converter.

-- Mark
Mark, sad to say, but I really don't believe that there is any really
practical method available for accomplishing this. That analog systems
have drift is a fact of life that has to be dealt with. This is one of
the primary reasons for the popularity of digital controls when they
first became available. It is also the reason that analog computer hit
a peak of popularity back in the 1950s and 1960s, but are rarely found
today.

If you go back into history, motor driven potentiometers and chopper
stabilized operational amplifier were arguably an approach to
achieving stability, but couldn't compare to the stability performance
provided by digital techniques.

Harry C.
 
In article <miogov0c5tnmt8ml9uld4r4pm2rpj723se@4ax.com>,
Gary Tait <seesig@xxx.yyy> wrote:
Whereas On 11 Oct 2003 14:00:29 +0100 (BST), Mark Carroll
markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribbled:
(snip)
The main thing I don't get is how to store analog state without drift,
for an entity representing a dimmable light or something. It'd be nice
if there were a simple elegant solution, or something prepackaged on an
IC, instead of me having to use an A/D converter, a few flip flops, and
a D/A converter.
(snip)
You'd trigger a triac as needed, no need to do anything directly
analog.
Surely the choice of trigger point on the AC cycle would be a settable
"variable" too, though, whose state would have to be maintained
between writes, so the problem of storing the state has just been
pushed further back?

-- Mark
 
In article <Xai*OlD4p@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk mentioned...
I'm interested in toying with intelligent building stuff to take a a
case study for a demo, and real hardware tends to impress more than
simulations.
The appropriate newsgroup for this is sci.engr.heat-vent-ac

[snip]

--
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In article <MPG.19f34153a667a22398978e@news.dslextreme.com>,
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:
In article <Xai*OlD4p@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk mentioned...
I'm interested in toying with intelligent building stuff to take a a
case study for a demo, and real hardware tends to impress more than
simulations.

The appropriate newsgroup for this is sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
(snip)

No, it isn't. Not only did my question include mention of lighting,
passive infra red sensors, etc. as having equal billing with climate
control, but if you bother to read it then you'll see my question is
really about how to have very simple devices on a bus where a computer
can read state from some and write state to the others. That is very
much an electronics question. The only relevance of the intelligent
building stuff is that it means that the aforementioned state is a
single binary or a single analog value, so my question would be rather
off-topic on sci.engr.heat-vent-ac given that it's more about clocked
shift registers, flip flops, data buses, etc. Make it about, say,
controlling sets of traffic lights and monitoring traffic sensors and
light levels (to guess weather and time of day), with nothing to do
with climate control, and the answers to my question are unchanged.

-- Mark
 
Whereas On 11 Oct 2003 23:36:28 +0100 (BST), Mark Carroll
<markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
In article <miogov0c5tnmt8ml9uld4r4pm2rpj723se@4ax.com>,
Gary Tait <seesig@xxx.yyy> wrote:
Whereas On 11 Oct 2003 14:00:29 +0100 (BST), Mark Carroll
markc@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribbled:
(snip)
The main thing I don't get is how to store analog state without drift,
for an entity representing a dimmable light or something. It'd be nice
if there were a simple elegant solution, or something prepackaged on an
IC, instead of me having to use an A/D converter, a few flip flops, and
a D/A converter.
(snip)
You'd trigger a triac as needed, no need to do anything directly
analog.

Surely the choice of trigger point on the AC cycle would be a settable
"variable" too, though, whose state would have to be maintained
between writes, so the problem of storing the state has just been
pushed further back?

-- Mark
It will be stored in a digital register of the chip (presumeable a
microcontroller), that triggers the triac.
--
Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat
 

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