Installing mic plug for camcorder, possible?

[jazu]

Hi guys,
I purchased camcorder without external mic input. Would it be possible to
install some plug on camera body?
Or perhaps bring some cable extension from inside of camera, so external mic
could be connected?
I can't believe after all these years, Sony didn't resolve motor and
internal mic noise problem
thanks

 

[Richard Crowley]

"jazu" wrote ...

I purchased camcorder without external mic input.
Would it be possible to install some plug on camera body?
Or perhaps bring some cable extension from inside of
camera, so external mic could be connected?

Even though I have been known to hack into things
that sane people would avoid, even I would stop short
at attempting to add a mic input jack to most modern,
small camcorders. The main roadblocks IMHO are...

1) Warranty is voided if you open/modify the unit
2) Schematic/service info difficult to impossible to get
3) Physical space is usually nonexistent unless you can
remove the internal mic and replace with the connector
4) Opening and working on most modern, small camcorders
is very difficult and carries high risk of damage unless you
know exactly how to do it as the mfg intended. They
frequently use those microscopic "connectorless" ribbon
cables that can be very tricky to remove/replace.

OTOH, if it is an older unit that is past its warranty,
and you are particularly adept (or like high risk), why
not?

I can't believe after all these years, Sony didn't resolve
motor and internal mic noise problem

The smaller they get, the more impossible to resolve
any of those proximity and/or mechanical-transmitted
noises.

Besides, the audio section of even $20K professional
camcorders is of only average quality. They assume
that anyone who is serious about audio will use double-
system production (i.e. recording the sound separately)

 

[Fred]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"jazu" wrote ...
I purchased camcorder without external mic input.
Would it be possible to install some plug on camera body?
Or perhaps bring some cable extension from inside of
camera, so external mic could be connected?

Even though I have been known to hack into things
that sane people would avoid, even I would stop short
at attempting to add a mic input jack to most modern,
small camcorders. The main roadblocks IMHO are...

1) Warranty is voided if you open/modify the unit
2) Schematic/service info difficult to impossible to get
3) Physical space is usually nonexistent unless you can
remove the internal mic and replace with the connector
4) Opening and working on most modern, small camcorders
is very difficult and carries high risk of damage unless you
know exactly how to do it as the mfg intended. They
frequently use those microscopic "connectorless" ribbon
cables that can be very tricky to remove/replace.

OTOH, if it is an older unit that is past its warranty,
and you are particularly adept (or like high risk), why
not?

I can't believe after all these years, Sony didn't resolve
motor and internal mic noise problem

The smaller they get, the more impossible to resolve
any of those proximity and/or mechanical-transmitted
noises.

Besides, the audio section of even $20K professional
camcorders is of only average quality. They assume
that anyone who is serious about audio will use double-
system production (i.e. recording the sound separately)

Also if they put mic plugs on the lower end recorders, fewer people would
buy the high end recorders. It's all about maximizing profits and much of
the time that doesn't mean giving the customer what the customer wants. It
means giving the customer as little as you can get away with.


--
Regards, Fred

 

[David]

On Apr 15, 8:38 am, "jazu" <nofreakings...@nospam.com> wrote:

Hi guys,
I purchased camcorder without external mic input. Would it be possible to
install some plug on camera body?
Or perhaps bring some cable extension from inside of camera, so external mic
could be connected?
I can't believe after all these years, Sony didn't resolve motor and
internal mic noise problem
thanks

There have been some articles on the web about hacking camcorders to
insert a mic jack and/or bypass the automatic gain control, which is
another feature trick that manufacturers use to deter pros from buying
any but the most high end cameras. One article is here:
http://www-e2.ijs.si/damir.vrancic/personal/trv900/Mic_modification.html

You might also want to check here: www.camerahacker.com

 

[Bill]

Fred wrote:

Also if they put mic plugs on the lower end recorders, fewer people would
buy the high end recorders. It's all about maximizing profits and much of
the time that doesn't mean giving the customer what the customer wants. It
means giving the customer as little as you can get away with.

Or selling the camera based on features and characteristics that sound

good during a sales pitch but don't provide any real value-- like
digital zoom, presets for "sepia" tone or black and white etc., and
other modes, the so-called "zoom mic", photo capability. and fake
widescreen.

 

[Ernie Werbel]

"Bill" <trash@chromehorse.net> wrote in message
news:luidnfThLsDDAb7bnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@golden.net...

Fred wrote:


Also if they put mic plugs on the lower end recorders, fewer
people would
buy the high end recorders. It's all about maximizing profits and much
of
the time that doesn't mean giving the customer what the customer wants.
It
means giving the customer as little as you can get away with.

Or selling the camera based on features and characteristics that sound
good during a sales pitch but don't provide any real value-- like digital
zoom, presets for "sepia" tone or black and white etc., and other modes,
the so-called "zoom mic", photo capability. and fake widescreen.

Fake widescreen... are you referring to the blacking out of the upper and
lower areas of the photo and optionally stretching out a smaller area? I've
seen that done before

Ernie

 

[webpa]

On Apr 15, 9:38 am, "jazu" <nofreakings...@nospam.com> wrote:

Hi guys,
I purchased camcorder without external mic input. Would it be possible to
install some plug on camera body?
Or perhaps bring some cable extension from inside of camera, so external mic
could be connected?
I can't believe after all these years, Sony didn't resolve motor and
internal mic noise problem
thanks

1. It is not physically possible to "resolve" the "problem" of
sounds produced by mechanical devices a few mm away from a microphone.
If you don't want to hear the sounds, then move the microphone further
away from the source of the sounds. You've never wondered why real
videographers don't use internal microphones?

2. That you are asking this question suggests you don't want to hear
the answer. Which is: Yes, you can disassemble your camcorder,
disable the internal mic(s), provide a (an) connection(s) for an
external microphone (s), and then mount your external mic on a pole
your assistant suspends overhead or underneath the speaker(s). To
prevent the obnoxious "pumping" typical of even the best automatic
gain control (AGC) in your camcorder, you will have to invent some
means to defeat the AGC inside that 1/4 inch-square integrated circuit
that does audio for your camcorder. It is possible. How is your
Chinese? The data sheets for many of the chips are online...but only
in Taiwan...in Chinese.

3. On the other hand... take a hacksaw to it and send us all the pics
of how it turns out....

 

[Ty Ford]

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:38:54 -0400, jazu wrote
(in article <iGrUh.80100$aG1.73677@pd7urf3no&gt:

Hi guys,
I purchased camcorder without external mic input. Would it be possible to
install some plug on camera body?
Or perhaps bring some cable extension from inside of camera, so external mic
could be connected?
I can't believe after all these years, Sony didn't resolve motor and
internal mic noise problem
thanks

You bought too low. Take it back and get a camcorder with external mic
inputs.

Some problems not even Sony can fix. I don't know of any situation in which
a mic in or on a camera sounds better than the right external mic placed much
closer to the source.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

 

[jazu]

1. It is not physically possible to "resolve" the "problem" of
sounds produced by mechanical devices a few mm away from a microphone.
C'mon, they put man on the moon, so they could fix it too.

The problem is why they install mic soo close? They could design some kind
of external mic (without mic plug) on the top of camcorder.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"jazu" wrote ...

C'mon, they put man on the moon, so they could fix it too.

They didn't violate any laws of physics to put a man
on the moon. If you can find a way of successfully
violating the laws of physics, you will be fabulously
wealthy and coudld afford a camera with a real mic
jack.

The problem is why they install mic soo close?

Define "far enough away" when the entire camcorder
fits in your hand.

They could design some kind
of external mic (without mic plug) on the top of camcorder.

Now there's something that will break off in the first month.

 

[Mike Kujbida]

jazu wrote:

1. It is not physically possible to "resolve" the "problem" of
sounds produced by mechanical devices a few mm away from a microphone.
C'mon, they put man on the moon, so they could fix it too.
The problem is why they install mic soo close? They could design some kind
of external mic (without mic plug) on the top of camcorder.

You buy cheap, you get cheap :-(

Mike

 

[Smarty]

The laws of physics don't really need to be violated so much as cleverly
exploited. There actually is a method to cancel mechanical sounds at a fixed
location removed from the source of the noise, and this method, "active
noise cancellation" is particularly suited for this problem, since the noise
is narrow banded and the microphone is a fixed location geometrically from
the noise source (the camcorder tape transport). Some of the applications of
this technology are in noise canceling headphones, microphones, electronic
mufflers, and noise abatement systems for controlling highway noise.

The design uses a replica of the offending noise, an equal amplitude but
opposite phase sound to arrive at the place you want cancelling to occur. In
this case the camcorder would have a small speaker creating this
cancellation signal driven by the proper energy placed to ensure the
coincident arrival of both the real noise and the cancellation signal at the
camcorder microphone.

This method was "invented" in the 1950s or 1960s at the University of
Darmstadt Germany, and was cleverly exploited in some high end audio gear
under the names of "Sonic Holography" from Phase Linear / Carver Corporation
as well as from another company called Sound Concepts. Bose and others have
also been using versions of it, as has the US Air Force in F16 cockpit
systems.

Smarty

"Mike Kujbida" <kXuXjXfXaXm@xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:591c8rF2iu9qsU1@mid.individual.net...

jazu wrote:
1. It is not physically possible to "resolve" the "problem" of
sounds produced by mechanical devices a few mm away from a microphone.
C'mon, they put man on the moon, so they could fix it too.
The problem is why they install mic soo close? They could design some
kind of external mic (without mic plug) on the top of camcorder.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Smarty" wrote ...

The laws of physics don't really need to be violated so much as
cleverly exploited. There actually is a method to cancel mechanical
sounds at a fixed location removed from the source of the noise, and
this method, "active noise cancellation" is particularly suited for
this problem,

Which would be an excelent argument if a mic jack weren't
an infitessimal fraction of the cost of active noise cancelling
circuitry/etc. If you were responsible for the design of a
camcorder targeted to be sold for $350, take a wild guess
what the management would say about such a feature.

 

[Smarty]

I am making no argument whatsoever to offer this as a practical solution to
an external mic jack. I merely was pointing out that physics was ***NOT***
the issue.

Smarty


"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xp7rt.net> wrote in message
news:132ngk2aols983f@corp.supernews.com...

"Smarty" wrote ...
The laws of physics don't really need to be violated so much as cleverly
exploited. There actually is a method to cancel mechanical sounds at a
fixed location removed from the source of the noise, and this method,
"active noise cancellation" is particularly suited for this problem,

Which would be an excelent argument if a mic jack weren't
an infitessimal fraction of the cost of active noise cancelling
circuitry/etc. If you were responsible for the design of a
camcorder targeted to be sold for $350, take a wild guess
what the management would say about such a feature.

 

[Richard Crowley]

"Smarty" wrote ...

"Richard Crowley" wrote ...
"Smarty" wrote ...
The laws of physics don't really need to be violated so much as
cleverly exploited. There actually is a method to cancel mechanical
sounds at a fixed location removed from the source of the noise, and
this method, "active noise cancellation" is particularly suited for
this problem,

Which would be an excelent argument if a mic jack weren't
an infitessimal fraction of the cost of active noise cancelling
circuitry/etc. If you were responsible for the design of a
camcorder targeted to be sold for $350, take a wild guess
what the management would say about such a feature.

I am making no argument whatsoever to offer this as a practical
solution to an external mic jack. I merely was pointing out that
physics was ***NOT*** the issue.

You're right. It is an economic issue, not a technical one.

 

[jazu]

Hi Ty.
Did you get finally your money?