Induction range ???

[Henry Kolesnik]

Today at a thrift store I saw a Kenmore Induction Range for sale for $30.00
and I noticed that the info tag indicated it was 5.6 KW. I wonder if there
are any good useable parts for any ham radio or other uses?
tnx
hank wd5jfr

 

[JURB6006]

My Dad bought one of those years ago out of curiosity. Having been a machinist
for all his life, he explained to me that those things use the same method to
heat the pan as some heat treating processes in manufacturing. The problem is
that you must use ferrous cookware, glass won't work at all, stainless exhibits
some pretty wierd behaviour and aluminum is about as effective as the glass
cookware. It stands on it's side proudly on the floor of one of his closets.

His is a GE and we did fire it up one time just to see it work. I too wonder
about other uses for the components inside. I guess anytime you need to heat
iron or a ferrous alloy you could come up with something. This one has numerous
safety systems, such as that it detects the presence of a pan <u>that is big
enough</u> to cover the burner before it will turn on. Removal of the pan
immediately shuts the burner down. Also the surface is made out of a special
material that must be not only an effective thermal insulator, but must also
have an extremely low thermal mass. I say this because a GE rep told me that a
demo in the showroom included the salesman bringing a pot of water to a boil
and removing it and putting his hand right where the pot had been. Apparently
there is not even enough stored heat conducted from the pot to burn you, even
a second later or less.

We will not throw it out, it is a pretty cool piece of engineering, and now
that Pops is retired, he might find time to take the thing apart. Being a
normal nut, I think weapons until I realize it runs on a 50 amp 220 line. The
thirty five men it would take to carry the batteries could probably do more
damage on their own. But I digress.

Go ahead and buy it if you are a <u>competent</u> tinkerer and electrician or
something, but I warn you, these things use VERY DANGEROUS voltages and
currents. We intend to take this one apart one day, but believe me utmost
caution will be observed. There will be no firing up of those coils without
some very serious thought given to safety. Nobody wants to die.

At the moment, I have no idea of your skill level, I don't know you so don't
take this wrong. If you are not proficient in working with LETHAL VOLTAGES do
not even mess with it. By my estimation these things are about 5 times more
dangerous than a microwave oven. Messing around in a microwave when you don't
know what you're doing can kill you in 0.8333 heartbeats (5/6ths), not even a
whole heartbeat. Otherwise, I am sure there is more than $30 worth of parts in
it. The question is, who can use them ? No good for radio waves, but if you
could modulate the output and find a way to focus the magnetism you could do
something.

For example a magnetron could come pretty close to being considered a MASER if
the proper output tubing/system were used. They consider that glorified LED in
your CD player a LASER, but it's not really a laser.

Let's say you build a whizbang doodad to focus the entire output of the
magnetron of a microwave into a beam. I wonder what it would do to the things
it hits.

At this point let me touch on the safety issue again, high voltage and current
is NOT your only problem here. You should know about wave propagation and
things like that as well before you start firng these things up outside of the
cabinet. Dad told me of a time when they company told them HAVE NO METAL on you
when you go within so many feet of this thing. One real sharp guy had a bic
lighter explode in his shirt pocket. The metal ring at the top apparently
melted into his lighter, thus breaching it.

No matter what, be careful because in this case, $30 might just buy you enough
fun for the rest of your life.

Good luck

JURB

 

[Henry Kolesnik]

fyi 35KHz operating freq.
see this http://www.emiata.com/images/CU-22A.pdf

hank

"JURB6006" &lt;jurb6006@aol.com&gt; wrote in message
news:20030906235424.07527.00000423@mb-m27.aol.com...

My Dad bought one of those years ago out of curiosity. Having been a
machinist
for all his life, he explained to me that those things use the same method
to
heat the pan as some heat treating processes in manufacturing. The problem
is
that you must use ferrous cookware, glass won't work at all, stainless
exhibits
some pretty wierd behaviour and aluminum is about as effective as the
glass
cookware. It stands on it's side proudly on the floor of one of his
closets.

His is a GE and we did fire it up one time just to see it work. I too
wonder
about other uses for the components inside. I guess anytime you need to
heat
iron or a ferrous alloy you could come up with something. This one has
numerous
safety systems, such as that it detects the presence of a pan <u>that is
big
enough</u> to cover the burner before it will turn on. Removal of the pan
immediately shuts the burner down. Also the surface is made out of a
special
material that must be not only an effective thermal insulator, but must
also
have an extremely low thermal mass. I say this because a GE rep told me
that a
demo in the showroom included the salesman bringing a pot of water to a
boil
and removing it and putting his hand right where the pot had been.
Apparently
there is not even enough stored heat conducted from the pot to burn you,
even
a second later or less.

We will not throw it out, it is a pretty cool piece of engineering, and
now
that Pops is retired, he might find time to take the thing apart. Being a
normal nut, I think weapons until I realize it runs on a 50 amp 220 line.
The
thirty five men it would take to carry the batteries could probably do
more
damage on their own. But I digress.

Go ahead and buy it if you are a <u>competent</u> tinkerer and electrician
or
something, but I warn you, these things use VERY DANGEROUS voltages and
currents. We intend to take this one apart one day, but believe me utmost
caution will be observed. There will be no firing up of those coils
without
some very serious thought given to safety. Nobody wants to die.

At the moment, I have no idea of your skill level, I don't know you so
don't
take this wrong. If you are not proficient in working with LETHAL VOLTAGES
do
not even mess with it. By my estimation these things are about 5 times
more
dangerous than a microwave oven. Messing around in a microwave when you
don't
know what you're doing can kill you in 0.8333 heartbeats (5/6ths), not
even a
whole heartbeat. Otherwise, I am sure there is more than $30 worth of
parts in
it. The question is, who can use them ? No good for radio waves, but if
you
could modulate the output and find a way to focus the magnetism you could
do
something.

For example a magnetron could come pretty close to being considered a
MASER if
the proper output tubing/system were used. They consider that glorified
LED in
your CD player a LASER, but it's not really a laser.

Let's say you build a whizbang doodad to focus the entire output of the
magnetron of a microwave into a beam. I wonder what it would do to the
things
it hits.

At this point let me touch on the safety issue again, high voltage and
current
is NOT your only problem here. You should know about wave propagation and
things like that as well before you start firng these things up outside of
the
cabinet. Dad told me of a time when they company told them HAVE NO METAL
on you
when you go within so many feet of this thing. One real sharp guy had a
bic
lighter explode in his shirt pocket. The metal ring at the top apparently
melted into his lighter, thus breaching it.

No matter what, be careful because in this case, $30 might just buy you
enough
fun for the rest of your life.

Good luck

JURB

 

[Dick Carroll;]

Sam Goldwasser wrote:

jurb6006@aol.com (JURB6006) writes:

snip

For example a magnetron could come pretty close to being considered a MASER if
the proper output tubing/system were used. They consider that glorified LED in
your CD player a LASER, but it's not really a laser.

This is simply not true. The laser diode in a CD/DVD player/drive is true laser,
period.

IIRC, LASER means "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission Radiation".
Can they do all that with a single LED, Sam?

Dick

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

"Dick Carroll;" &lt;dixie@townsqr.com&gt; writes:

Sam Goldwasser wrote:

jurb6006@aol.com (JURB6006) writes:

snip

For example a magnetron could come pretty close to being considered a MASER if
the proper output tubing/system were used. They consider that glorified LED in
your CD player a LASER, but it's not really a laser.

This is simply not true. The laser diode in a CD/DVD player/drive is true laser,
period.

IIRC, LASER means "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission Radiation".
Can they do all that with a single LED, Sam?

Yes, absolutely. It's not just a glorified LED. It has a laser medium
(the semicondcutor), mirrors (on the ends of the cleaved crystal), and
excitation (electrical current). Trust me, it's a true laser.
Furthermore, it puts out a near diffraction limited beam that can be
focused to a spot less than 2 um in diameter at the surface of the disc's
information layer. You can't do that with any LED or non-laser light
source.

The laser diode in a CD or DVD player or drive is similar to what's in
a laser pointer or diode laser module, a laser printer, and diode laser
based barcode scanner (though the specific wavelengths and some other
parameters differ).

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
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[Sam Goldwasser]

jurb6006@aol.com (JURB6006) writes:

About the laser thing. The components that make up a laser are more then just
the emitting device. Even in a ruby laser, you got a mirrored surface at the
back and a semi-mirrored surface at the output. This is what makes the light
coherent, not the source. Let's consider a ball of ruby rod material, if you
excite it and cause it to "amplify" light, it would just go wherever. Is that a
laser ?

No, a ball of ruby without mirrors wouldn't be a laser oscilator, though it could
be used as an amplifier. I already posted that the laser diode includes
all the components of a laser - gain medium, mirrors, excitation source.
Except that it uses direct current injection rather than a flashlamp, the
conceptual diagram of a laser diode and ruby laser are identical.

An LED is similar to a laser diode without the mirrors so there is no feedback.

On the other hand if you had a light source, even a light bulb, in a long long
tube, with a mirror at one end and a semi-mirror on the output end, that light
would be fairly coherent. Light amplification has not taken place, but light
concentration surely has, possibly enough to be dangerous.

Nonsense. It would be neither coherent or particularly powerful. Go look at
a basic text on optics. Coherent does not mean directed, collimated, or parallel.
It depends on the line width of the ouptut optical spectrum. The narrower it
is, the mo the waves remain in phase over a distance. Coherence length is
inversely proportional to line width.

I think the whole acronym laser is not quite on target, laser does not mean
coherent, but lasers are coherent and that seems to be a major consideration
when determining if something is a laser. Just how do you <u>simulate</u> the
emission of radiation, you DID emit radiation in any kind of laser.

The acronym is possibly a bit misleading but the common usage of the term
"laser" has come to mean an oscillator and not a light amplifier. Lasers do
not in principle need to be coherent but the vast majority of them are much
better than any old light bulb or LED.

Just throwing my thoughts out there.

I'd have to agree with that.

Perhaps you should read the Diode Laser chapters of the Laser FAQ before posting?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.

 

[JURB6006]

Sam wrote;

Perhaps you should read the Diode Laser chapters of the Laser FAQ before
posting?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FA

Perhaps it's time for a visit there. Been awhile since I stomped around
repairfaq.org, howstuffworks etc.

I think my main problem is with the terminology, and the fact that I'm a TV
tech. Even at that, I think it's going to be awhile before I grasp the
"simulated" part, because there <u>was</u> emission to excite the medium.

Mainly, this thread was about induction heating, but I'll remember to keep
lasers out of it until I know more Thanx for the en<u>light</u>enment.

JURB

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

jurb6006@aol.com (JURB6006) writes:

Perhaps you should read the Diode Laser chapters of the Laser FAQ before
posting?

Perhaps it's time for a visit there. Been awhile since I stomped around
repairfaq.org, howstuffworks etc.

Sorry, I may have been a bit hard on you.

I think my main problem is with the terminology, and the fact that I'm a TV
tech. Even at that, I think it's going to be awhile before I grasp the
"simulated" part, because there <u>was</u> emission to excite the medium.

Not siulated, stimulated!

Mainly, this thread was about induction heating, but I'll remember to keep
lasers out of it until I know more Thanx for the en<u>light</u>enment.

Right. Why are we talking about lasers?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Home Page: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Site Info: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: The email address in this message header may no longer work. To
contact me, please use the Feedback Form at repairfaq.org. Thanks.