Inductance of "Interference supression" film caps

S

Spehro Pefhany

Guest
These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than 1uH?
Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at
best.

http://www.maco.panasonic.co.jp/www-data/pdf/ABD0000/ABD0000CE29.pdf

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlog
DOTyou.knowwhat> wrote (in <j28u50pioh45r5duj27hkhs73cafb2d5ah@4ax.com>)
about 'Inductance of "Interference supression" film caps', on Mon, 22
Mar 2004:
These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than 1uH?
Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at best.
Click to expand...
That's a VERY big cap for interference suppression. I don't have any
figures, but I suspect that it will give up around 1 MHz. Why do you
need such a large value?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:mxUM6qFZ6yXAFwl4@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
| I read in sci.electronics.design that Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlog
| DOTyou.knowwhat> wrote (in
<j28u50pioh45r5duj27hkhs73cafb2d5ah@4ax.com>)
| about 'Inductance of "Interference supression" film caps', on Mon, 22
| Mar 2004:
| >These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
| >inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than
1uH?
| >Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at
best.
|
| That's a VERY big cap for interference suppression. I don't have any
| figures, but I suspect that it will give up around 1 MHz. Why do you
| need such a large value?
| --
| Regards, John Woodgate,

Class X2 across the line for differential mode noise.

DNA
 
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:j28u50pioh45r5duj27hkhs73cafb2d5ah@4ax.com...
| These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
| inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than 1uH?
| Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at
| best.
|
| http://www.maco.panasonic.co.jp/www-data/pdf/ABD0000/ABD0000CE29.pdf
|
| Best regards,
| Spehro Pefhany


Try.....

http://www.vishay.com/docs/28138/mkp339.pdf

4u7 comes out as 17.8nH (550KHz)
1u0 comes out as 11.3nH (1.5MHz)

Seems low but that's what the figure says.

Mind you I should shoot you for doing a Burridge.

DNA
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Emoneg <Emoneg@nothere.com> wrote
(in <ueG7c.571$Fm1.567@newsfe1-win>) about 'Inductance of "Interference
supression" film caps', on Mon, 22 Mar 2004:

Class X2 across the line for differential mode noise.
Click to expand...
Well, I didn't imagine it went to earth! But it's still very big. Lead
and track inductance make caps of this size less than useful in many
cases. An alternative technique is to put several 100 nF to 470 nF caps
up close to the actual sources of the EMI.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:1AuYWEGySzXAFw1Z@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
| I read in sci.electronics.design that Emoneg <Emoneg@nothere.com>
wrote
| (in <ueG7c.571$Fm1.567@newsfe1-win>) about 'Inductance of
"Interference
| supression" film caps', on Mon, 22 Mar 2004:
|
| >Class X2 across the line for differential mode noise.
|
| Well, I didn't imagine it went to earth! But it's still very big. Lead
| and track inductance make caps of this size less than useful in many
| cases. An alternative technique is to put several 100 nF to 470 nF
caps
| up close to the actual sources of the EMI.
| --
| Regards, John Woodgate,

Your probably right about it being a kludge but..... that's what people
are doing these days. 2(3) off X2 caps with 2 off common mode chokes and
2 off class Y.

It's the black art of EMI and probably driven by PFC stages going ape
when the input filter decides to mess them about. Someone did it so we
all do it.

DNA
 
In article <j28u50pioh45r5duj27hkhs73cafb2d5ah@4ax.com>,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than 1uH?
Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at
best.

http://www.maco.panasonic.co.jp/www-data/pdf/ABD0000/ABD0000CE29.pdf
Click to expand...
My experience with panasonic components has not been very good. They tend
to quit making anything I design in. Lucky for you I haven't designed
this part in so there is a chance you can still get them.

Last time I looked electronic concepts had the lowest inductance film
capacitors.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:02:18 -0800, the renowned "Terry Given"
<the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

"Emoneg" <Emoneg@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:ujG7c.583$Fm1.508@newsfe1-win...

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:j28u50pioh45r5duj27hkhs73cafb2d5ah@4ax.com...
| These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
| inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than 1uH?
| Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at
| best.
|
| http://www.maco.panasonic.co.jp/www-data/pdf/ABD0000/ABD0000CE29.pdf
|
| Best regards,
| Spehro Pefhany


Try.....

http://www.vishay.com/docs/28138/mkp339.pdf
Click to expand...
Ah, there's some curves!

4u7 comes out as 17.8nH (550KHz)
1u0 comes out as 11.3nH (1.5MHz)

Seems low but that's what the figure says.
Click to expand...
That's great. I just wanted to get an upper bound on it for this
application.

Mind you I should shoot you for doing a Burridge.
Click to expand...
I seem to have missed most of the posts today, including yours. And
all those platebits are in parallel like I just said a couple days ago
to Mr. B. Okay, just shoot me.

DNA

all the large EMI caps I have ever measured come out at around 20nH or so -
including 4.7uF 450V parts (they could take a huge pulse, too).
Electrolytics tend to weigh in at about 30nH, so I normally just use 30nH
for design purposes. These caps are all big enough (with creepage &
clearance taken into account) to never fall below about 10nH, just due to
the loop caused by the inevitable standoffs integral to the plastic body
Click to expand...
Okay, okay, so 1uH is WAY high. Thanks.

Spehro, I tried to respond to your email but no success....try me with a
less cryptic return address (Im a PC luddite....;)
Click to expand...
It's in my sig, in plain text. I just keep it out of the headers these
days.

Thanks!

speff
@ interlog DOT com

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
Terry Given wrote...
Spehro, I tried to respond to your email but no success....
try me with a less cryptic return address (Im a PC luddite....;)
Click to expand...
What's hard about SNIP? Or DOTyou.knowwhat? Should work.

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com
 
"Emoneg" <Emoneg@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:ujG7c.583$Fm1.508@newsfe1-win...
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:j28u50pioh45r5duj27hkhs73cafb2d5ah@4ax.com...
| These "interference supression" don't have any numbers as to their
| inductance. Any ball-park figures for say 2.2uF/275VAC? Less than 1uH?
| Less than 10uH? I can't get ahold of samples for almost a month at
| best.
|
| http://www.maco.panasonic.co.jp/www-data/pdf/ABD0000/ABD0000CE29.pdf
|
| Best regards,
| Spehro Pefhany


Try.....

http://www.vishay.com/docs/28138/mkp339.pdf

4u7 comes out as 17.8nH (550KHz)
1u0 comes out as 11.3nH (1.5MHz)

Seems low but that's what the figure says.

Mind you I should shoot you for doing a Burridge.

DNA
Click to expand...
all the large EMI caps I have ever measured come out at around 20nH or so -
including 4.7uF 450V parts (they could take a huge pulse, too).
Electrolytics tend to weigh in at about 30nH, so I normally just use 30nH
for design purposes. These caps are all big enough (with creepage &
clearance taken into account) to never fall below about 10nH, just due to
the loop caused by the inevitable standoffs integral to the plastic body

Spehro, I tried to respond to your email but no success....try me with a
less cryptic return address (Im a PC luddite....;)

Cheers
Terry
 
"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:c3o7ap01pml@drn.newsguy.com...
Terry Given wrote...

Spehro, I tried to respond to your email but no success....
try me with a less cryptic return address (Im a PC luddite....;)

What's hard about SNIP? Or DOTyou.knowwhat? Should work.

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com
Click to expand...
I blame me. Thats my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. ;)
 
http://www.vishay.com/docs/28138/mkp339.pdf

4u7 comes out as 17.8nH (550KHz)
1u0 comes out as 11.3nH (1.5MHz)

Seems low but that's what the figure says.
Click to expand...
I make it ~17nH for both parts. (1uF srf@1.2MHz on log scale)

Inductance is basically related to lead pitch on schooped rooled or
stacked film parts. These both have 27.5mm pitch.

Go to 0.1uF, in 15mm pitch, for ~8nH stray inductance.

RL
 
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> a écrit dans le message
news: 9v7v50hlcq3eovlcp5din7hv3h5pitf7hm@4ax.com...
Spehro, I tried to respond to your email but no success....try me with a
less cryptic return address (Im a PC luddite....;)

It's in my sig, in plain text. I just keep it out of the headers these
days.

Thanks!

speff
@ interlog DOT com
Click to expand...
Yep, but you have it plain clear bellow.
Calling for massive spam ?

Fred.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com
Click to expand...
 
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