Incorrectly marked transistors?

[Gareth Magennis]

OK, to follow up on the "wrong parts sent by Behringer" thread,

I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before I
fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.

Anyway I tried to order a different manufacturers part from the Farnel
website but ended up with more of the Mospecs.


Here is the weird bit:
I have 4 Mospec TIP35C in font of me with exactly the same batch codes, they
are all identical and from the same source (Farnell)
3 of them meaure BEC, the fourth one measures the correct BCE pinout.
Measurement done numerous times on a Peak DCA50e component checker, and a
video made to send to Farnel who would not at first believe me.


How is this possible?



Cheers,


Gareth.

 

[N_Cook]

On 14/01/2014 10:10, Gareth Magennis wrote:

OK, to follow up on the "wrong parts sent by Behringer" thread,

I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before I
fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.

Anyway I tried to order a different manufacturers part from the Farnel
website but ended up with more of the Mospecs.


Here is the weird bit:
I have 4 Mospec TIP35C in font of me with exactly the same batch codes, they
are all identical and from the same source (Farnell)
3 of them meaure BEC, the fourth one measures the correct BCE pinout.
Measurement done numerous times on a Peak DCA50e component checker, and a
video made to send to Farnel who would not at first believe me.


How is this possible?



Cheers,


Gareth.

Even weirder I have some marked TIP35C, makers apparently MEV and ST,
check out as perhaps TIP36C, never used so no idea what the V/A ratings
are, came from Grandata . They were for background stock and when I went
to use one Grandata had gone bust.
I assume they must be a favorite for pirating. The labelling is not
obviously suspect, ie printing wipes off but "ST" ones are skew to the
body and MEV ones look more like paint than whatever usual marking
material is

(second attempt., bastard mozilla thunderbird)

 

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"

I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before I
fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.

** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape and
confused Collector with Emitter.



..... Phil

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bjkidoFilorU1@mid.individual.net...

"Gareth Magennis"


I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before I
fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.


** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape and
confused Collector with Emitter.



.... Phil

I did suspect my dopey checker, but even with a fresh battery it ALWAYS
reads EXACTLY the same,

which is: 3 of them measure BEC with an Hfe of 5, the other one BCE with an
Hfe of 20.
(All tabs connect to centre pin)

The replacements I finally got from Farnell with a different batch code
measure an Hfe between 40 and 70.


I know Hfe is kind of meaningless on these types of checker voltages, but
was still wondering why the checker would give a different pinout result
rather than fail the device.

I suspect all 4 of the "old" transistors are faulty, but still doesn't
explain how these managed to be sold to me by Farnell, or even got off the
production line without being checked.


Cheers,


Gareth.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"
"Phil Allison"

I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before
I fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.


** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for
heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape and
confused Collector with Emitter.



I did suspect my dopey checker, but even with a fresh battery it ALWAYS
reads EXACTLY the same,

** ROTFL - since when is THAT any reason to trust it ?????

" It must be right cos it always tells the SAME lie "

Wot an idiot you are.

which is: 3 of them measure BEC with an Hfe of 5, the other one BCE with
an Hfe of 20.

** No fooling.

BJTs have very low Hfes if C and E are reversed.

Like 2 or 3 instead of 100 or 200.

They *also* show very low readings if the meter is no fucking good.

See how that might be confusing ???

(All tabs connect to centre pin)

** Then there is simply **NO** problem with the devices.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU are the problem with your dopey meter that is not able to tests power
BJTs properly.

FYI Try it with a TV horizontal output transistor like the BU208.

The replacements I finally got from Farnell with a different batch code
measure an Hfe between 40 and 70.

** Testing the Hfe of *power transistors* is a whole DIFFERENT ball game
to small signal devices.

That is why I designed a special device just for power devices - published
as a project in Electronics Australia magazine in May 1988.

Test are done at a constant Ic of 0.6 amps instead of some fixed and way too
small Ib.

Results are spot on and match maker's data which follow the same idea.

Works fine with TV horizontal output devices, power darlingtons and any BJT
rated for high power.

I know Hfe is kind of meaningless on these types of checker voltages, but
was still wondering why the checker would give a different pinout result
rather than fail the device.

** Cos it is using the wrong approach for power BJT devices.

> I suspect all 4 of the "old" transistors are faulty,

** Bollocks.

You have a **fucking useless** meter that only works with those examples of
power BJT devices that exceed maker's specs at the low end of the Ic v Hfe
range.

Take a LOOK at some ACTUAL power BJT data sheets some time !!!!!!!!!

Hfe is NOT a constant !!!!!!!!!!!!



..... Phil

 

[N_Cook]

On 14/01/2014 10:28, N_Cook wrote:

On 14/01/2014 10:10, Gareth Magennis wrote:
OK, to follow up on the "wrong parts sent by Behringer" thread,

I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before I
fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.

Anyway I tried to order a different manufacturers part from the Farnel
website but ended up with more of the Mospecs.


Here is the weird bit:
I have 4 Mospec TIP35C in font of me with exactly the same batch
codes, they
are all identical and from the same source (Farnell)
3 of them meaure BEC, the fourth one measures the correct BCE pinout.
Measurement done numerous times on a Peak DCA50e component checker, and a
video made to send to Farnel who would not at first believe me.


How is this possible?



Cheers,


Gareth.



Even weirder I have some marked TIP35C, makers apparently MEV and ST,
check out as perhaps TIP36C, never used so no idea what the V/A ratings
are, came from Grandata . They were for background stock and when I went
to use one Grandata had gone bust.
I assume they must be a favorite for pirating. The labelling is not
obviously suspect, ie printing wipes off but "ST" ones are skew to the
body and MEV ones look more like paint than whatever usual marking
material is

(second attempt., bastard mozilla thunderbird)

closer looking at them . The bodies of "MEV" and "ST" are exactly the
same in minute detail, highly unlikely for different makers.
Guillotine imperfections in the heatsink stampings appear in exactly the
same place, the blow-hole? dimples in the encapsulation have the same
shiney appearance and matt for the rest of the body , two recesses each
side of the body show .5mm of the underlying heatsink, 2 tiny overspill
encapsulant splurges over the tab are the same etc

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bjkmq7Fjj6uU1@mid.individual.net...

"Gareth Magennis"
"Phil Allison"


I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before
I fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.


** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for
heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape
and confused Collector with Emitter.



I did suspect my dopey checker, but even with a fresh battery it ALWAYS
reads EXACTLY the same,


** ROTFL - since when is THAT any reason to trust it ?????

" It must be right cos it always tells the SAME lie "

Wot an idiot you are.


which is: 3 of them measure BEC with an Hfe of 5, the other one BCE with
an Hfe of 20.

** No fooling.

BJTs have very low Hfes if C and E are reversed.

Like 2 or 3 instead of 100 or 200.

They *also* show very low readings if the meter is no fucking good.

See how that might be confusing ???


(All tabs connect to centre pin)


** Then there is simply **NO** problem with the devices.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU are the problem with your dopey meter that is not able to tests power
BJTs properly.

FYI Try it with a TV horizontal output transistor like the BU208.


The replacements I finally got from Farnell with a different batch code
measure an Hfe between 40 and 70.


** Testing the Hfe of *power transistors* is a whole DIFFERENT ball game
to small signal devices.

That is why I designed a special device just for power devices -
published as a project in Electronics Australia magazine in May 1988.

Test are done at a constant Ic of 0.6 amps instead of some fixed and way
too small Ib.

Results are spot on and match maker's data which follow the same idea.

Works fine with TV horizontal output devices, power darlingtons and any
BJT rated for high power.



I know Hfe is kind of meaningless on these types of checker voltages, but
was still wondering why the checker would give a different pinout result
rather than fail the device.

** Cos it is using the wrong approach for power BJT devices.

I suspect all 4 of the "old" transistors are faulty,

** Bollocks.

You have a **fucking useless** meter that only works with those examples
of power BJT devices that exceed maker's specs at the low end of the Ic v
Hfe range.

Take a LOOK at some ACTUAL power BJT data sheets some time !!!!!!!!!

Hfe is NOT a constant !!!!!!!!!!!!



.... Phil

Yes I know Hfe is not constant, that is why I said the reading is
meaningless on such a low voltage checker.

I do not use this device to measure Hfe, I don't usually give a fuck what
the Hfe of a transistor is, I assume all new ones I buy from Farnell are
within manufacturers spec.
I usually just want to know if a transistor is bad, what pinout it is, and
whether or not it tests on this meter in the same ballpark as a known good
one.

These 4 "faulty" transistors do NOT test in the same ballpark, they probably
DO exceed the maker's spec if they work properly at all. In that respect
the tester has done all I have asked of it.

I am not going to put one of these devices into a Power Amp (which I was
about to do before I tested them) and have it blow up in my face. Farnell
can damn well send me 4 good transistors which ARE in the right ballpark,
which is exactly what they have done, one of which went into the Power Amp
which did not blow up in my face.



Cheers,


Gareth.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

How about phony products from China?

You should bring this to Farnell's attention.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bjkmq7Fjj6uU1@mid.individual.net...

You have a **fucking useless** meter that only works with those
examples of power BJT devices that exceed maker's specs at the
low end of the Ic v Hfe range.

Amazing. How does one design such a clever product?

 

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"

"Phil Allison"


I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just
before I fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the
pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.


** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for
heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape
and confused Collector with Emitter.



I did suspect my dopey checker, but even with a fresh battery it ALWAYS
reads EXACTLY the same,


** ROTFL - since when is THAT any reason to trust it ?????

" It must be right cos it always tells the SAME lie "

Wot an idiot you are.


which is: 3 of them measure BEC with an Hfe of 5, the other one BCE
with an Hfe of 20.

** No fooling.

BJTs have very low Hfes if C and E are reversed.

Like 2 or 3 instead of 100 or 200.

They *also* show very low readings if the meter is no fucking good.

See how that might be confusing ???


(All tabs connect to centre pin)


** Then there is simply **NO** problem with the devices.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU are the problem with your dopey meter that is not able to tests power
BJTs properly.

FYI Try it with a TV horizontal output transistor like the BU208.


The replacements I finally got from Farnell with a different batch code
measure an Hfe between 40 and 70.


** Testing the Hfe of *power transistors* is a whole DIFFERENT ball
game to small signal devices.

That is why I designed a special device just for power devices -
published as a project in Electronics Australia magazine in May 1988.

Test are done at a constant Ic of 0.6 amps instead of some fixed and way
too small Ib.

Results are spot on and match maker's data which follow the same idea.

Works fine with TV horizontal output devices, power darlingtons and any
BJT rated for high power.



I know Hfe is kind of meaningless on these types of checker voltages,
but was still wondering why the checker would give a different pinout
result rather than fail the device.

** Cos it is using the wrong approach for power BJT devices.

I suspect all 4 of the "old" transistors are faulty,

** Bollocks.

You have a **fucking useless** meter that only works with those examples
of power BJT devices that exceed maker's specs at the low end of the Ic v
Hfe range.

Take a LOOK at some ACTUAL power BJT data sheets some time !!!!!!!!!

Hfe is NOT a constant !!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes I know Hfe is not constant, that is why I said the reading is
meaningless on such a low voltage checker.

I do not use this device to measure Hfe,

** No, but the dopey fuckin meter IS doing just that.

How do you imagine it tells C from E ??

Might it not use the Hfe test to do it ???????????
-------------------------------------------------------

How would YOU tell C from E with no other data ?

I usually just want to know if a transistor is bad, what pinout it is, and
whether or not it tests on this meter in the same ballpark as a known good
one.

** Fraid you stupid POS meter CANNOT do that for power BJTs.

HOW MANY TIMES do you have to be FUCKING TOLD ???????



> These 4 "faulty" transistors ..

** FFS - YOU are the ONLY faulty thing !!!!!!!!!!

THAT STINKING POS CANNOT TEST POWER BJTs !!!!!!!

It is a SMALL SIGNAL device tester.

READ the fucking spec sheet for it - DICK HEAD !!

The throw that POS in the bin and DO the TEST ANOTHER WAY !!!!

Fuck you are DUMB !!!!!!!!!!



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwerck"


** FUCK OFF MORONIC TROLL

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwerck"


** FUCK OFF & DIE MORONIC TROLL !!

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bjkrc6FkhktU1@mid.individual.net...

When are you going to wake up and get professional help?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Phil, we've (or at least I've) been putting up with your crap for a long time.

When are you going to get professional help?

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Gareth Magennis"


I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just before I
fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.


** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape and
confused Collector with Emitter.

Agreed.

those component testers are sketchy in that you have no idea what they are
doing or how they draw conclusions.

 

[N_Cook]

On 14/01/2014 10:28, N_Cook wrote:
> ie printing wipes off

should be
ie printing does not wipe off, like that chalky script on valves

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Gareth Magennis <gareth.magennis@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bjm352Ft22pU1@mid.individual.net...


"Gareth Magennis"


Phil. I know how my test equipment works,

** Like hell you do !!!!!!!!!!

And you have NO FUCKING IDEA how to test a power BJT.


I know when I come across an anomaly.

** You think the sky is falling and run around like a headless chook.



FYI: Do you have two DC power supplies?

Use one to provide a collector current of say 0.5 amps.

Use the other to drive the base via a 1 kohm resistor so Ic is 0.5 amps.

The ratio of currents will give you the correct Hfe for most power BJT
devices.



.... Phil




Phil, I am not at all interested in finding the accurate Hfe of a
transistor.
All I need to know is if it works within design parameters, or it doesn't.

Are you confident your tester is performing tests within operating
parameters of your device under test?

 

[Uffe Bćrentsen]

Den 14-01-2014 14:09, Phil Allison skrev:

Hi Phil

Interesting to read this:

** Testing the Hfe of *power transistors* is a whole DIFFERENT ball
game to small signal devices.

That is why I designed a special device just for power devices -
published as a project in Electronics Australia magazine in May 1988.

Test are done at a constant Ic of 0.6 amps instead of some fixed and way
too small Ib.

Results are spot on and match maker's data which follow the same idea.

Works fine with TV horizontal output devices, power darlingtons and any
BJT rated for high power.

Is there any chance that you would have an electronic copy of this that
you would be willing to share?
Since I'm in Denmark which happens to be on the other side of the planet
compared to Australia, magazines from Australia are kind of rare around here

For reply please remove this from my mail adr: _FJERNES_ (the
underscores need to be removed as well).


--
Uffe

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bjkr7sFkgn8U1@mid.individual.net...


"Gareth Magennis"

"Phil Allison"


I recently bought some TIP35C transistors from Farnell UK. Just
before I fitted one to an amplifier I thought I'd just check the
pinouts.
Good job I did because instead of BCE they measured BEC.


** That is just not possible.

The middle leg is always the collector and metal tab used for
heatsinking.

FFS - get an ohmmeter and verify that simple fact.

Seems your dopey microprocessor ( ie software) based POS has gone ape
and confused Collector with Emitter.



I did suspect my dopey checker, but even with a fresh battery it ALWAYS
reads EXACTLY the same,


** ROTFL - since when is THAT any reason to trust it ?????

" It must be right cos it always tells the SAME lie "

Wot an idiot you are.


which is: 3 of them measure BEC with an Hfe of 5, the other one BCE
with an Hfe of 20.

** No fooling.

BJTs have very low Hfes if C and E are reversed.

Like 2 or 3 instead of 100 or 200.

They *also* show very low readings if the meter is no fucking good.

See how that might be confusing ???


(All tabs connect to centre pin)


** Then there is simply **NO** problem with the devices.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU are the problem with your dopey meter that is not able to tests power
BJTs properly.

FYI Try it with a TV horizontal output transistor like the BU208.


The replacements I finally got from Farnell with a different batch code
measure an Hfe between 40 and 70.


** Testing the Hfe of *power transistors* is a whole DIFFERENT ball
game to small signal devices.

That is why I designed a special device just for power devices -
published as a project in Electronics Australia magazine in May 1988.

Test are done at a constant Ic of 0.6 amps instead of some fixed and way
too small Ib.

Results are spot on and match maker's data which follow the same idea.

Works fine with TV horizontal output devices, power darlingtons and any
BJT rated for high power.



I know Hfe is kind of meaningless on these types of checker voltages,
but was still wondering why the checker would give a different pinout
result rather than fail the device.

** Cos it is using the wrong approach for power BJT devices.

I suspect all 4 of the "old" transistors are faulty,

** Bollocks.

You have a **fucking useless** meter that only works with those examples
of power BJT devices that exceed maker's specs at the low end of the Ic v
Hfe range.

Take a LOOK at some ACTUAL power BJT data sheets some time !!!!!!!!!

Hfe is NOT a constant !!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes I know Hfe is not constant, that is why I said the reading is
meaningless on such a low voltage checker.

I do not use this device to measure Hfe,

** No, but the dopey fuckin meter IS doing just that.

How do you imagine it tells C from E ??

Might it not use the Hfe test to do it ???????????
-------------------------------------------------------

How would YOU tell C from E with no other data ?

I usually just want to know if a transistor is bad, what pinout it is, and
whether or not it tests on this meter in the same ballpark as a known good
one.

** Fraid you stupid POS meter CANNOT do that for power BJTs.

HOW MANY TIMES do you have to be FUCKING TOLD ???????



> These 4 "faulty" transistors ..

** FFS - YOU are the ONLY faulty thing !!!!!!!!!!

THAT STINKING POS CANNOT TEST POWER BJTs !!!!!!!

It is a SMALL SIGNAL device tester.

READ the fucking spec sheet for it - DICK HEAD !!

The throw that POS in the bin and DO the TEST ANOTHER WAY !!!!

Fuck you are DUMB !!!!!!!!!!



..... Phil




Phil. I know how my test equipment works, I use it every day.

I know when I come across an anomaly. That comes with an intimate knowledge
of how your test equipment works.


Gareth.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"


> Phil. I know how my test equipment works,

** Like hell you do !!!!!!!!!!

And you have NO FUCKING IDEA how to test a power BJT.


> I know when I come across an anomaly.

** You think the sky is falling and run around like a headless chook.



FYI: Do you have two DC power supplies?

Use one to provide a collector current of say 0.5 amps.

Use the other to drive the base via a 1 kohm resistor so Ic is 0.5 amps.

The ratio of currents will give you the correct Hfe for most power BJT
devices.



..... Phil