Improving AM reception with by Inductive coupling an antenna......

[Sid 03]

I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

 

[Sid 03]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:09:28 PM UTC-6, amdx wrote:

On 2/10/2022 9:23 PM, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
By physically around, do you mean near or inside a loop? ( I have 2 ft
loop that I set the radio in) Inductive coupling.

Two ways, if the radio has an antenna input you can make an antenna and
modify it so the impedance is low enough to drive a cable connected to
the antenna.

Or you can inductively couple to the Ferrite rod in the radio.

You could run a 50ft wire and connect that to the radio.

You could get a couple of ferrite rods, put them end to end, wind
enough wire to make it measure 240uh, and use a 356pf air variable
capacitor to tune it. Then inductively couple it to the rod in the antenna.

You could bundle several rods parallel with each other, wind it and
tune it with a cap. You could place 1 turn around that and wire that
into the antenna input on your radio.

You could go high end and build an FSL antenna.

Those are some ideas and a few search terms.

You might look at

http://theradioboard.com/rb/
specifically the \'Crystal Radio Section\' and the \'Other Electronic Projects\'

http://www.sarmento.eng.br/Loop_Ferrite_Rod_Antenna.htm

Look through these images and see if anything jumps out.

https://tinyurl.com/3sujmv88

Mikek


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Rick C., Your were correct.
Lots of articles and help on that site. [ https://groups.io/g/loopantennas ]
Thanks for the pointer !

Sid.

 

[bitrex]

On 2/10/2022 10:23 PM, Sid 03 wrote:

I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

There\'s a tutorial on the design of loop and capacitive antennas, and an
equivalent circuit model, for AM reception in the National Audio Handbook:

<http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/national/_dataBooks/1976_National_Audio_Handbook.pdf>

Section 3-1, page 78 in the PDF.

For the effective height of an air core loop (the PDF only has ferrite
loop approximation) it\'s here:

<http://loop-antennas.ceyhunsezenoglu.com/en/latest/em-modeling/effective-height.html>

 

[bitrex]

On 2/15/2022 12:40 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 2/10/2022 10:23 PM, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about
how to construct one.  From all of these videos, its like all these
guys found how to make these antennas by accident.  None of the videos
provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no
real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o
having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

There\'s a tutorial on the design of loop and capacitive antennas, and an
equivalent circuit model, for AM reception in the National Audio Handbook:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/national/_dataBooks/1976_National_Audio_Handbook.pdf


Section 3-1, page 78 in the PDF.

For the effective height of an air core loop (the PDF only has ferrite
loop approximation) it\'s here:

http://loop-antennas.ceyhunsezenoglu.com/en/latest/em-modeling/effective-height.html

Two more useful links, page 23 on magnetically coupling to internal
ferrite rod:

<https://www.osengr.org/Articles/Loop-Antennas.pdf>

On loop sizing with respect to SNR for a given band:

<https://www.lz1aq.signacor.com/docs/fa-eng/Weak_signals-mag_loop_engl.htm>

 

[bitrex]

On 2/15/2022 10:50 AM, Sid 03 wrote:

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:09:28 PM UTC-6, amdx wrote:
On 2/10/2022 9:23 PM, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
By physically around, do you mean near or inside a loop? ( I have 2 ft
loop that I set the radio in) Inductive coupling.

Two ways, if the radio has an antenna input you can make an antenna and
modify it so the impedance is low enough to drive a cable connected to
the antenna.

Or you can inductively couple to the Ferrite rod in the radio.

You could run a 50ft wire and connect that to the radio.

You could get a couple of ferrite rods, put them end to end, wind
enough wire to make it measure 240uh, and use a 356pf air variable
capacitor to tune it. Then inductively couple it to the rod in the antenna.

You could bundle several rods parallel with each other, wind it and
tune it with a cap. You could place 1 turn around that and wire that
into the antenna input on your radio.

You could go high end and build an FSL antenna.

Those are some ideas and a few search terms.

You might look at

http://theradioboard.com/rb/
specifically the \'Crystal Radio Section\' and the \'Other Electronic Projects\'

http://www.sarmento.eng.br/Loop_Ferrite_Rod_Antenna.htm

Look through these images and see if anything jumps out.

https://tinyurl.com/3sujmv88

Mikek


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Rick C., Your were correct.
Lots of articles and help on that site. [ https://groups.io/g/loopantennas ]
Thanks for the pointer !

Sid.

Here\'s one of the better tutorials for your specific problem, improving
AM reception:

<https://www.osengr.org/Articles/Loop-Antennas.pdf>

 

[Sid 03]

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, Sid 03 wrote:

I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

Here is another, this guy uses his big toe ?
https://youtu.be/YL4SboK6FTw

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 10:31:24 PM UTC-5, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Here is another, this guy uses his big toe ?
https://youtu.be/YL4SboK6FTw

I did a bunch of research into receiving loop antennas some time back and found the same sort of thing. For transmitting, loop designs tend to be much more calculated and a lot more energy is put into the planning. Often the coupling to the loop was inductive. While there are tons of information on the antenna design, there is very little available on the coupling loop. It seems that is often done by trial and error using other\'s experience as a guide for the starting point.

There are a couple of email groups for loop antenna design. MagLoop@groups..ioand MagLoop@groups.io. Go to the groups.io web site to find these groups. You will need to sign up, but this site is not evil in any way. In fact, it was started by some of the Yahoo groups designers who decided to go their own way. Then when Yahoo groups were removed, groups.io got a big boost.

Anyway, MagLoop@groups.io is very active and lots of good people there. Much more likely to get good info there than here. I know of one person here who is active in loop antenna design. He does some interesting stuff. I recall a few years back he was working on very high Q designs. Seems the limiting factor in the whole high Q thing is the tuning capacitor as they can be much lower Q than a good loop. I think his name is Mike. I\'m sure he will chime in when he reads your posts.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Sid 03]

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 11:32:01 PM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 10:31:24 PM UTC-5, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Here is another, this guy uses his big toe ?
https://youtu.be/YL4SboK6FTw
I did a bunch of research into receiving loop antennas some time back and found the same sort of thing. For transmitting, loop designs tend to be much more calculated and a lot more energy is put into the planning. Often the coupling to the loop was inductive. While there are tons of information on the antenna design, there is very little available on the coupling loop. It seems that is often done by trial and error using other\'s experience as a guide for the starting point.

There are a couple of email groups for loop antenna design. Mag...@groups..ioand Mag...@groups.io. Go to the groups.io web site to find these groups. You will need to sign up, but this site is not evil in any way. In fact, it was started by some of the Yahoo groups designers who decided to go their own way. Then when Yahoo groups were removed, groups.io got a big boost.

Anyway, Mag...@groups.io is very active and lots of good people there. Much more likely to get good info there than here. I know of one person here who is active in loop antenna design. He does some interesting stuff. I recall a few years back he was working on very high Q designs. Seems the limiting factor in the whole high Q thing is the tuning capacitor as they can be much lower Q than a good loop. I think his name is Mike. I\'m sure he will chime in when he reads your posts.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Rick, thanks for that. Is this the group that you were talking about:
\"Helically Loaded Mag Loop\" ?

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 8:51:43 AM UTC-5, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 11:32:01 PM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 10:31:24 PM UTC-5, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Here is another, this guy uses his big toe ?
https://youtu.be/YL4SboK6FTw
I did a bunch of research into receiving loop antennas some time back and found the same sort of thing. For transmitting, loop designs tend to be much more calculated and a lot more energy is put into the planning. Often the coupling to the loop was inductive. While there are tons of information on the antenna design, there is very little available on the coupling loop.. It seems that is often done by trial and error using other\'s experience as a guide for the starting point.

There are a couple of email groups for loop antenna design. Mag...@groups.ioand Mag...@groups.io. Go to the groups.io web site to find these groups. You will need to sign up, but this site is not evil in any way. In fact, it was started by some of the Yahoo groups designers who decided to go their own way. Then when Yahoo groups were removed, groups.io got a big boost.

Anyway, Mag...@groups.io is very active and lots of good people there. Much more likely to get good info there than here. I know of one person here who is active in loop antenna design. He does some interesting stuff. I recall a few years back he was working on very high Q designs. Seems the limiting factor in the whole high Q thing is the tuning capacitor as they can be much lower Q than a good loop. I think his name is Mike. I\'m sure he will chime in when he reads your posts.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, thanks for that. Is this the group that you were talking about:
\"Helically Loaded Mag Loop\" ?

No, that would seem to be a very specialize group. The groups I mentioned are exactly as I indicated. Wait, seems I managed to screw that up and gave you the same group twice. The other one, the much more active group, would be \"loopantennas\" You should be able to search groups.io for that keyword. Or here is the link.

https://groups.io/g/loopantennas

You can access this group through the web page or as an email list. I do both receiving emails, but making posts through the web page.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Sid 03]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 9:48:07 AM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 8:51:43 AM UTC-5, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 11:32:01 PM UTC-6, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 10:31:24 PM UTC-5, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, Sid 03 wrote:
I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio..
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Here is another, this guy uses his big toe ?
https://youtu.be/YL4SboK6FTw
I did a bunch of research into receiving loop antennas some time back and found the same sort of thing. For transmitting, loop designs tend to be much more calculated and a lot more energy is put into the planning. Often the coupling to the loop was inductive. While there are tons of information on the antenna design, there is very little available on the coupling loop. It seems that is often done by trial and error using other\'s experience as a guide for the starting point.

There are a couple of email groups for loop antenna design. Mag...@groups.ioand Mag...@groups.io. Go to the groups.io web site to find these groups. You will need to sign up, but this site is not evil in any way. In fact, it was started by some of the Yahoo groups designers who decided to go their own way. Then when Yahoo groups were removed, groups.io got a big boost.

Anyway, Mag...@groups.io is very active and lots of good people there.. Much more likely to get good info there than here. I know of one person here who is active in loop antenna design. He does some interesting stuff. I recall a few years back he was working on very high Q designs. Seems the limiting factor in the whole high Q thing is the tuning capacitor as they can be much lower Q than a good loop. I think his name is Mike. I\'m sure he will chime in when he reads your posts.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, thanks for that. Is this the group that you were talking about:
\"Helically Loaded Mag Loop\" ?
No, that would seem to be a very specialize group. The groups I mentioned are exactly as I indicated. Wait, seems I managed to screw that up and gave you the same group twice. The other one, the much more active group, would be \"loopantennas\" You should be able to search groups.io for that keyword.. Or here is the link.

https://groups.io/g/loopantennas

You can access this group through the web page or as an email list. I do both receiving emails, but making posts through the web page.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

OK, got it. Thanks for the help, I will post my message there.
Thanks

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:

I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

This doesn\'t answer your question. It\'s just another neat example of unintended consequences. Slinky was invented because Richard James accidentally knocked a spring off of a work desk. I saw it on the A&E show, The Toys That Built America. They mentioned that it could be used as an antenna. His wife, Betty, chose the name.
<https://www.jamesspring.com/news/the-history-of-the-slinky/>

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 16 Feb 2022 10:13:15 -0800 (PST)) it happened Dean
Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote in
<735bd728-252d-4e2d-954a-518288a8cd68n@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 9:24:02 PM UTC-6, sidw...@gmail.com wrote:

I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how
to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how
to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or
calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real
explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having
to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

This doesn\'t answer your question. It\'s just another neat example of unintended
consequences. Slinky was invented because Richard James accidentally
knocked a spring off of a work desk. I saw it on the A&E show, The Toys
That Built America. They mentioned that it could be used as an antenna.
His wife, Betty, chose the name.
https://www.jamesspring.com/news/the-history-of-the-slinky/

If you have enough space ... this is for 20 meters so you need a big tower for MW:
http://www.panteltje.com/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_IMG_4536.JPG
that is actualy a 500 pF variable capacitor at the top of the picture
the coupling loop is the white test lead with alligator clips.

And if you get an antenna analyzer:
http://www.panteltje.com/pub/testing_the_20_meter_inductive_loop_antenna_dunno_IMG_4537.JPG

I have a PSARK100 and then you can tune it...

Plenty info on the internet, just google \'calculating loop antenna\'\'
https://www.66pacific.com/calculators/full-wave-loop-antenna-calculator.aspx
for 2 MHz the loop length is 152 meters....
People do things...

 

[amdx]

On 2/10/2022 9:23 PM, Sid 03 wrote:

I found some of these AM antennas by chance, but I want to more about how to construct one. From all of these videos, its like all these guys found how to make these antennas by accident. None of the videos provides plans or calculations on how to reproduce the entire project.

Example of coupling:
https://youtu.be/d1jaojiA1Oo

This guy has some of the best explanation, but no calculations and no real explanation on how to inductively couple it back to your am radio.
https://youtu.be/_PqEcgJRUkg

This guy actually gave some dimensions, but no coupling:
https://youtu.be/Wnkf_gQQwwg

I was hoping I could find someway to build one of these antennas w/o having to have it physically around the radio ?

Any help is appreciated
Thanks

 By physically around, do you mean near or inside a loop? ( I have 2 ft
loop that I set the radio in) Inductive coupling.

Two ways, if the radio has an antenna input you can make an antenna and
modify it so the impedance is low enough to drive a cable connected to
the antenna.

Or you can inductively couple to the Ferrite rod in the radio.

 You could run a 50ft wire and connect that to the radio.

You could get a couple of  ferrite rods, put them end to end, wind
enough wire to make it measure 240uh, and use a 356pf air variable
capacitor to tune it. Then inductively couple it to the rod in the antenna.

 You could bundle several rods parallel with each other, wind it and
tune it with a cap. You could place 1 turn around that and wire that
into the antenna input on your radio.

You could go high end and build an FSL antenna.

Those are some ideas and a few search terms.

 You might look at

http://theradioboard.com/rb/
specifically the \'Crystal Radio Section\' and the \'Other Electronic Projects\'

> http://www.sarmento.eng.br/Loop_Ferrite_Rod_Antenna.htm

Look through these images and see if anything jumps out.

> https://tinyurl.com/3sujmv88

                               Mikek


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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus