If voltage is like pressure, what's the psi/volt value?

[William J. Beaty]

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?



Looking around on various pages of hydraulic backhoe
pumps, I find that a 30 in^3/sec flow rate pump can
run at 1500 psi, transferring about 5 kilowatts. What
are hoses, ...like 1" inside diameter?

If a 5KW DC motor runs at 240v and 20 amps, and if the
wires are equal in size to the hydraulic hoses above,
then what hydraulic pressure "equals: one volt potential?

The speed of the "electron fluid" is slow, but the speed
of the hydraulic fluid in the hoses is fast. Pressure
will have an inverse change (since watts is proportional
to fluid speed times pressure diff., raise pressure while
slowing the flow, power remains constant.) The speed of
hydraulic fluid in the above example is about 30"/sec.
Using http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html, the speed of
charge carriers for 20 amps in 2cm solid copper "hoses"
is around .0002"/sec.

If a hydraulic system was flowing at .0002" per second
rather than 30" per second, yet was delivering 5 kilowatts,
the pressure would have to be proportionally higher than
1500 psi.

I make it out to be...

1 volt potential "equals" a hydraulic pressure of 10^6 psi

Very rough calculations, lots of weird assumptions, might be off
by 2x or 10x.


Huh. So that's why electrons can flow so slowly in everyday
circuitry. The "workng pressures" involved with simple electric
circuits are astronomical when compared to hydraulics. And the
resistance of wires is terrible: like pumping hydraulic fluid
through packed sand or powder. High pressure, slow flow, not
much heating caused by fluid flow in the mile-long tubes of sand.


And think about AC systems. Sending megawatts down an AC line
is like sending 60Hz sound waves along a column of fluid, with
the sound pressure being hundreds of billions of PSI, and the
fluid in the piles only vibrating microscopically back and forth.

Now if only a hydraulic motor would turn at a decent speed when
supplied with mega-psi pressure and almost no flow rate. With
something like that, the losses in long hoses would be tiny, and
we could replace our power technology with "hydr-icity" pipes
instead of "electr-icity" pipes!



(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

 

[Uncle Al]

"William J. Beaty" wrote:

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?

Osmotic pressure is directly equivalent to voltage. Fleishmann and
Pons used that argument to rationalize their cold fusion conjecture.
They calculate equivalent D2 pressures of about 8x10^26 atm.
corresponding to their overpotential of 0.8 V.

You probably want to look at something like the Nernst equation, the
Ideal gas equation, and the osmotic pressure equation. They fit
together.

[snip]

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

 

[EEng]

There is no value where PSI = Volts. Its an analogy that explains
electronic functions akin to the relationships in hydraulics in that
given a water tower with an outlet valve, the outgoing water is
relative to how much the valve is open assuming the pipe has the flow
capacity. In that vein, voltage can be compared to the water pressure
in the tank, resistance can be compared to how much the valve is open,
and current is a direct relationship between the two, much the same as
water flow is a relationship between valve opening and available
pressure.

Ohms Law dictates the rest. It's only an analogy, not a direct
relationship.




On 17 Mar 2004 18:31:10 -0800, billb@eskimo.com (William J. Beaty)
wrote:

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?



Looking around on various pages of hydraulic backhoe
pumps, I find that a 30 in^3/sec flow rate pump can
run at 1500 psi, transferring about 5 kilowatts. What
are hoses, ...like 1" inside diameter?

If a 5KW DC motor runs at 240v and 20 amps, and if the
wires are equal in size to the hydraulic hoses above,
then what hydraulic pressure "equals: one volt potential?

The speed of the "electron fluid" is slow, but the speed
of the hydraulic fluid in the hoses is fast. Pressure
will have an inverse change (since watts is proportional
to fluid speed times pressure diff., raise pressure while
slowing the flow, power remains constant.) The speed of
hydraulic fluid in the above example is about 30"/sec.
Using http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html, the speed of
charge carriers for 20 amps in 2cm solid copper "hoses"
is around .0002"/sec.

If a hydraulic system was flowing at .0002" per second
rather than 30" per second, yet was delivering 5 kilowatts,
the pressure would have to be proportionally higher than
1500 psi.

I make it out to be...

1 volt potential "equals" a hydraulic pressure of 10^6 psi

Very rough calculations, lots of weird assumptions, might be off
by 2x or 10x.


Huh. So that's why electrons can flow so slowly in everyday
circuitry. The "workng pressures" involved with simple electric
circuits are astronomical when compared to hydraulics. And the
resistance of wires is terrible: like pumping hydraulic fluid
through packed sand or powder. High pressure, slow flow, not
much heating caused by fluid flow in the mile-long tubes of sand.


And think about AC systems. Sending megawatts down an AC line
is like sending 60Hz sound waves along a column of fluid, with
the sound pressure being hundreds of billions of PSI, and the
fluid in the piles only vibrating microscopically back and forth.

Now if only a hydraulic motor would turn at a decent speed when
supplied with mega-psi pressure and almost no flow rate. With
something like that, the losses in long hoses would be tiny, and
we could replace our power technology with "hydr-icity" pipes
instead of "electr-icity" pipes!



(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

 

[John Larkin]

On 17 Mar 2004 18:31:10 -0800, billb@eskimo.com (William J. Beaty)
wrote:

Huh. So that's why electrons can flow so slowly in everyday
circuitry. The "workng pressures" involved with simple electric
circuits are astronomical when compared to hydraulics. And the
resistance of wires is terrible: like pumping hydraulic fluid
through packed sand or powder. High pressure, slow flow, not
much heating caused by fluid flow in the mile-long tubes of sand.

So, if you just took the empty pipe and pushed it slowly into a
perfect matter-to-energy converter, what would the equivalent pressure
be?

(Would it be anywhere near the internal pressure of, say, a neutron
star about to collapse into a black hole?)

Yup!

John

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that William J. Beaty
<billb@eskimo.com> wrote (in <2251b4e6.0403171831.71c943a9@posting.googl
e.com&gt about 'If voltage is like pressure, what's the psi/volt
value?', on Wed, 17 Mar 2004:

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?

You can choose any scale factor you like.

Looking around on various pages of hydraulic backhoe pumps, I find that
a 30 in^3/sec flow rate pump can run at 1500 psi, transferring about 5
kilowatts. What are hoses, ...like 1" inside diameter?

If a 5KW DC motor runs at 240v and 20 amps, and if the wires are equal
in size to the hydraulic hoses above, then what hydraulic pressure
"equals: one volt potential?

You should have quit at that point. The rest of your reasoning is off-
beam.

The speed of the "electron fluid" is slow, but the speed of the
hydraulic fluid in the hoses is fast. Pressure will have an inverse
change (since watts is proportional to fluid speed times pressure diff.,
raise pressure while slowing the flow, power remains constant.) The
speed of hydraulic fluid in the above example is about 30"/sec. Using
http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html, the speed of charge carriers for 20
amps in 2cm solid copper "hoses" is around .0002"/sec.

But the electron drift speed has NOTHING to do with the speed of energy
transfer. Think; with alternating current, the electrons shuffle back
and forth, but the energy flows one way all the time, from source to
(resistive) load.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[William J. Beaty]

EEng <nunyabiz@budget.net> wrote in message news:<617i50hv5qpsjadf5kmrc5l0glj0cc2d13@4ax.com>...

There is no value where PSI = Volts.

Read my message again. I said "equals", not equals. And
I said "voltage is like pressure," not that voltage IS
pressure. "Voltage is like pressure" is a common statement
in intro electricity classes. Maybe you don't know this?

OF COURSE it's an analogy. The hydraulic analog for electric
circuits. Would people here really think otherwise? Hm, maybe
they would. Maybe I should have said more about this than just
saying "equals" in quotes.

I'd caution you to remember that the value of analogies is in
noting their similarities to the system being analyzed, not
in rejecting them because they're different than the system
being analyzed. That said, you're obviously right to want
to find their limitations; the parts that don't fit. E-fields
can affect charges throughout a volume, while fluid pressure
is only applied to a surface. The electron sea in a wire is
quite different than the oil in a pipe. But it's also...
"the same."

Ohms Law dictates the rest. It's only an analogy, not a direct
relationship.

Are you a Euclidian, as opposed to a Babylonian? (Feynman's
terms for math-lovers versus concept-lovers.) If you're any kind
of teacher, or if you ever need to explain circuitry using intuitive
non-mathematical concepts, I suggest that you not be so quick to
declare something "only" an analogy. But if you never have to
explain such things; if Ohm's law is the only thing you need to
understand, and have no need to form a conceptual network by
connecting electrical concepts to analogous mechanical concepts,
then you don't have to even respond to these messages, since they're
not aimed at you.


Separate topic. In some pop science book (perhaps "Time Travel
and Papa Joe's Pipe," the author mentioned a question asked by
his aging father.

The father had had lots of experience in heavy machinery, and knew
just how many watts max. of mechanical power could be sent down how
large a driveshaft. But the father was always confused about
something.

How could megawatts be sent down a half-inch aluminum cable by an
electrical generator? Why are wires so small when compared to the
equivalent drive shaft? The hydraulic analogy supplies the
answer: "pressures" in electrical circuits are stunningly huge.
The electrical "pipes" don't burst until you reach the analogous
giga-torr levels of pressure, and even the simplest tiny "pump"
can easily produce such "pressures." With such things attainable,
huge wattage can be sent down a "hose" where the fluid in the
"hose" need only crawl along imperceptibly, and the "hose" can
be extremely narrow, yet deliever relatively huge energy flow.

Yet at the same time, wires have enormous frictional problems,
and if the electron "fluid" is pumped at a few cm per second,
the wire quickly heats up and melts. As a hydraulic system,
circuitry is very strange: it uses the analog of enormous
pressure, yet it's not practical to pump the "fluid" in the
pipes any faster than a snail's pace.

(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

 

[William J. Beaty]

Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<40590F3B.160EDD32@hate.spam.net>...

Osmotic pressure is directly equivalent to voltage. Fleishmann and
Pons used that argument to rationalize their cold fusion conjecture.
They calculate equivalent D2 pressures of about 8x10^26 atm.
corresponding to their overpotential of 0.8 V.

Cool!

I've always wondered how high a value for gas pressure of H2 and
O2 that a sealed electrochem cell could achive. I mean, if
they didn't react spontaneously at high values.

 

[Bob Brown]

Hello,
Your analogy is an interesting question coming from you. You seem to
have technical terms under control, and a lot of technical
understanding. I had to ask myself why you asked this question. You
are capable of calculating a conversion between Hydraulic and
Electrical work. From this question, I would have to assume that you
are trying to explain or find a new way to explain work.

A simple explanation could be this" Imagine drinking a lot of beer one
day. At some point, you will need to relieve the bladder pressure.
While drinking the beer, one would imagine that relief is more
frequent than a similar period where Cola is consumed. The simple
answer would be no, both require the same time, but a more complicated
answer would have to include the brain's ability to accurately measure
time while drinking beer. The relaxation of senses allows time to
seem shorter when drinking beer, than when not drinking the beer.

From this statement, I would have to conclude that including another
dimension might help to solve the problem, which is what you have
already suggested.

 

[Wayne Shanks]

Hey Bill

I have been a big fan of your exploits over the years.

About the voltage equivalent of pressure...

Consider the that we are going to raise the potential of a conducting
sphere of radius R to V volts by moving charge from infinity onto the
sphere. As we bring this charge together we must do work against the
mutual electric fields of he charge; in fact this is how we define
electric potential.

The charge, Q, on the sphere at potential V is

Q=4*pi*epsilon*V (epsilon is the permitivity of free space)

The total work U we had to do to assemble the charge to a radius R is

U=Q^2/(8*pi*epsilon*R)

Like charge repel, so there is an outward force on the sphere of

F=-dU/dR

F=Q^2/(8*pi*epsilon*R^2)

This force is spread over and normal to the surface of the sphere, thus
the pressure P is

P=F/(4*pi*R^2)=Q^2/(8*pi*epsilon*R^2*4*pi*R^2)

Substituting the first equation for Q simplifies the pressure equation to

P=epsilon*V^2/(2*R^2)


You will notice that in this context the outward pressure on the sphere
is a function of V^2 and 1/D^2, so this example fails to show an simple
relation between voltage and pressure

Note that the result is the same for parallel plate capacitors.

Note that the coulomb pressure drop off at 1/r^2 like field strength,
but increases as V^2 like the stored energy in a capacitor.

So although voltage is like pressure, the correspondence between charge
potential and pressure is not a simple proportion, but depends on the
magnitude of the voltage, and the geometry that the potential is
supported over.

Wayne Shanks

P.S. I hope I got the math correct





William J. Beaty wrote:

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?



Looking around on various pages of hydraulic backhoe
pumps, I find that a 30 in^3/sec flow rate pump can
run at 1500 psi, transferring about 5 kilowatts. What
are hoses, ...like 1" inside diameter?

If a 5KW DC motor runs at 240v and 20 amps, and if the
wires are equal in size to the hydraulic hoses above,
then what hydraulic pressure "equals: one volt potential?

The speed of the "electron fluid" is slow, but the speed
of the hydraulic fluid in the hoses is fast. Pressure
will have an inverse change (since watts is proportional
to fluid speed times pressure diff., raise pressure while
slowing the flow, power remains constant.) The speed of
hydraulic fluid in the above example is about 30"/sec.
Using http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html, the speed of
charge carriers for 20 amps in 2cm solid copper "hoses"
is around .0002"/sec.

If a hydraulic system was flowing at .0002" per second
rather than 30" per second, yet was delivering 5 kilowatts,
the pressure would have to be proportionally higher than
1500 psi.

I make it out to be...

1 volt potential "equals" a hydraulic pressure of 10^6 psi

Very rough calculations, lots of weird assumptions, might be off
by 2x or 10x.


Huh. So that's why electrons can flow so slowly in everyday
circuitry. The "workng pressures" involved with simple electric
circuits are astronomical when compared to hydraulics. And the
resistance of wires is terrible: like pumping hydraulic fluid
through packed sand or powder. High pressure, slow flow, not
much heating caused by fluid flow in the mile-long tubes of sand.


And think about AC systems. Sending megawatts down an AC line
is like sending 60Hz sound waves along a column of fluid, with
the sound pressure being hundreds of billions of PSI, and the
fluid in the piles only vibrating microscopically back and forth.

Now if only a hydraulic motor would turn at a decent speed when
supplied with mega-psi pressure and almost no flow rate. With
something like that, the losses in long hoses would be tiny, and
we could replace our power technology with "hydr-icity" pipes
instead of "electr-icity" pipes!



(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb@eskimo.com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

 

[William J. Beaty]

Scott Stephens <scottxs@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Fpr6c.38270$po.321120@attbi_s52>...

William J. Beaty wrote:


Yet at the same time, wires have enormous frictional problems,
and if the electron "fluid" is pumped at a few cm per second,
the wire quickly heats up and melts.

I don't think of electrons flowing anymore. I think of electromagnetic
fields determining the probability of where flowing or static electrons
might (probably) materialize or disintegrate.

But EM fields transferring energy in circuits have a mechanical
analog: sound waves transferring energy in hydraulic hoses (and
even sound waves in drive shafts.) Uncertainty of particle
position is irrelevant.

The energy in any device, be it mechanical or electrical,
propagates as wave phenomena. Mechanical "work," when it moves
from place to place in some mechanical device, travels as sound
waves within the solid parts. Turn one gear, and others on the
same shaft will only turn after a speed-of-sound delay time. Pull
on a chain and the far end cannot move instantly. First the m
echanical energy has to flow.

In circuitry, the EM isn't the charge-flow, any more than the
sound waves in a leather drive belt "are" the leather movement.
Therefore it's not the electrons that are weird, instead the
weirdness involves energy flow versus flow of the medium carrying
the energy, and the weirdness extends to wind-up spring motors
and quantities of "work" flowing along drive shafts and belts. We
could say that the weirdness revolves around the concept "DC sound."
If drive shafts spin constantly, or if voltage/current are constant,
where are the fast waves that let us see the energy flow? They're
still there, since the energy is still being transferred.

Also, electrical "currents" shouldn't imply the presence of
electrons nor the existence of enlarged QM effects of these
low-mass charged particles. "Current" can involve large heavy
charged atoms, even charged powders or moving charged belts.
There's not necessarily any Heisenberg Uncertainty issues with
electric current, since charged plastic beads flowing through a tube
or charged sodium atoms flowing in your nerves are just as real a
"current" as the drifting electron-sea in a metal.

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-543-6195 http//staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

 

[William J. Beaty]

Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<40590F3B.160EDD32@hate.spam.net>...

They calculate equivalent D2 pressures of about 8x10^26 atm.
corresponding to their overpotential of 0.8 V.

Huh. I was only low by 20 orders of magnitude.




((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-543-6195 http//staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

 

[William J. Beaty]

John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message news:<KhSHerJFWhWAFwZ6@jmwa.demon.co.uk>...

The speed of the "electron fluid" is slow, but the speed of the
hydraulic fluid in the hoses is fast. Pressure will have an inverse
change (since watts is proportional to fluid speed times pressure diff.,
raise pressure while slowing the flow, power remains constant.) The
speed of hydraulic fluid in the above example is about 30"/sec. Using
http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html, the speed of charge carriers for 20
amps in 2cm solid copper "hoses" is around .0002"/sec.

But the electron drift speed has NOTHING to do with the speed of energy
transfer.

Obviously.

But electron drift has some relation to the rate of energy flow.
Look at the rates; the various values of wattage, not at the velocity
of propagation. In a circuit of unchanging dimensions, if you double
the drift rate of charges then you double the current, and if voltage
is constant, to double the drift rate is to double the wattage.

I'm looking at mechanical systems and seeing that the rate (not speed)
of energy transfer is proportional to force times motion (motion of
mass-bearing objects.) I look at an electric circuit and see that
the rate of energy transfer is proportional to voltage times current
(current being the motion of charge-bearing objects.)

So I take the electron drift as being analogous to the "drift"
of oil in a hydraulic hose, or the "drift" of rubber molecules
in a moving drive belt. That could be a big mistake. Yes,
doubling the drift speed can double the current and so double
the wattage if voltage is constant. Same goes for hydraulics
and doubling the oil velocity with constant pressure difference
between two hoses. But I'm wrong because the ABSOLUTE speed of
charge drift doesn't necessarily connect with the ABSOLUTE speed
of oil motion.

Hmmmmmmm. What about density effects in hydraulic systems? If
a mechanical system were to use hoses full of low-pressure gas,
versus hoses full of liquid mercury, then for the same pressure
difference and the same wattage, wouldn't we see vastly different
velocity in these fluid "drive belts?" And then... what mass
density in oil is analogous to what charge density of mobile carriers
in wires? Aha! HOW MANY COULOMBS EQUAL ONE KILOGRAM?!!!




((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-543-6195 http//staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

 

[William J. Beaty]

Scott Stephens <scottxs@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<OWn6c.35855$J05.227166@attbi_s01>...

How about a spin-conducting ceramic that conduct paired electron spins
as waves, rather than electrons themselves?

Arrrrrrrg!!!!! Need negative-mass hydraulic oil to build an
analogy to that one.




And in the crashed alien spacecraft, don't touch the ceramic
hyper-permittivity fibers behind that access panel, you could
get a painful shock.



((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty@chem.washington.edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb@eskimo.com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-543-6195 http//staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

 

[Bob Myers]

"William J. Beaty" <billb@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:2251b4e6.0403191336.3b0d4e76@posting.google.com...

And in the crashed alien spacecraft, don't touch the ceramic
hyper-permittivity fibers behind that access panel, you could
get a painful shock.

Besides that, you'll void the warranty.

Bob M.

 

[GPG]

You can choose any scale factor you like.



Looking around on various pages of hydraulic backhoe pumps, I find that
a 30 in^3/sec flow rate pump can run at 1500 psi, transferring about 5
kilowatts. What are hoses, ...like 1" inside diameter?

If a 5KW DC motor runs at 240v and 20 amps, and if the wires are equal
in size to the hydraulic hoses above, then what hydraulic pressure
"equals: one volt potential?

You should have quit at that point. The rest of your reasoning is off-
beam.

The speed of the "electron fluid" is slow, but the speed of the
hydraulic fluid in the hoses is fast. Pressure will have an inverse
change (since watts is proportional to fluid speed times pressure diff.,
raise pressure while slowing the flow, power remains constant.) The
speed of hydraulic fluid in the above example is about 30"/sec. Using
http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html, the speed of charge carriers for 20
amps in 2cm solid copper "hoses" is around .0002"/sec.

100V* 50A is 5KW so is 500V*10A. There is no equivalence at this level

Equvalence starts at power.
Converting your example to the much easier metric system,
30in^3/sec = 492cm^3/sec
1500psi =105Kg/cm^2
105*9.8 = 1029 Newton
Then (492*1029)/100 = 5062W, 5KW
In your analogy you have overlooked the pipe, viewing electrons as a
"fluid".
In your example you would need a pipe about 10M across to have the
same velocity
Also pipes carrying fluid do not behave like wires. The resistance
goes up with flow in a non-linear manner. At high flows they tend to
behave in a constant current manner due to turbulence.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that GPG <peg@slingshot.co.nz> wrote
(in <62069f15.0403200520.1d8a9348@posting.google.com&gt about 'If voltage
is like pressure, what's the psi/volt value?', on Sat, 20 Mar 2004:

At high flows
they tend to behave in a constant current manner due to turbulence.

So do wires, once you get to red hot or thereabouts.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Phideaux]

billb@eskimo.com (William J. Beaty) wrote in message news:<2251b4e6.0403171831.71c943a9@posting.google.com>...

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?

The analogy is exact from the experiences I have had; handle too much
pressure (voltage) with too weak of a pipe (wire) and smoke magically
appears. Then either system will not work until maintenance is
performed.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Phideaux <ggober@alltel.net> wrote
(in <fd732a29.0403201848.13d9acd8@posting.google.com&gt about 'If voltage
is like pressure, what's the psi/volt value?', on Sat, 20 Mar 2004:

billb@eskimo.com (William J. Beaty) wrote in message news:<2251b4e6.0403
171831.71c943a9@posting.google.com>...
If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?


The analogy is exact from the experiences I have had; handle too much
pressure (voltage) with too weak of a pipe (wire) and smoke magically
appears. Then either system will not work until maintenance is
performed.

What makes the wire smoke is CURRENT, not voltage. You can burn up a
thick wire with a big 1.5 V primary cell.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Phideaux wrote:

billb@eskimo.com (William J. Beaty) wrote in message news:<2251b4e6.0403171831.71c943a9@posting.google.com>...

If voltage is like pressure, what pressure is it?



The analogy is exact from the experiences I have had; handle too much
pressure (voltage) with too weak of a pipe (wire) and smoke magically
appears. Then either system will not work until maintenance is
performed.

What the heck is an analogy if it's not "exact", and all the exactitude
in the world does not create an equivalence. I see little hope of
conventional scientific understanding when your use and comprehension of
basic human language is so laden with ambiguity.

 

[Cecil Moore]

Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Then we're talking about a completely different force, whereas
mechanical forces are usually said to be forms of the electrical force.
But then again, the pressure of my feet on the floor is the result of
both forces, isn't it?

Haven't the electric force, the magnetic force, and the weak force
all been unified into one basic force?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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