IEC C13/C14 polarity

[who where]

I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

 

[Phil Allison]

"who where"

I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

** Any IEC lead on sale or supplied with equipment in Australia is required
to have type approval and be labelled to show that such approval has been
obtained. Both plugs and the cable itself are labelled with a number -
prefixed by a letter indicating which state granted the approval ( N, Q, V,
S, W etc).

If you look as the IEC female from the end view and with the earth pin
upwards, Active should be on the right.

I have one Chinese IEC cable (came with my Rigol digital CRO ) that has no
Australian approval - but still follows this convention.

The same convention applies in the UK and the EU but I am not sure about the
USA.


..... Phil

 

[F Murtz]

Phil Allison wrote:

"who where"

I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?


** Any IEC lead on sale or supplied with equipment in Australia is required
to have type approval and be labelled to show that such approval has been
obtained. Both plugs and the cable itself are labelled with a number -
prefixed by a letter indicating which state granted the approval ( N, Q, V,
S, W etc).

If you look as the IEC female from the end view and with the earth pin
upwards, Active should be on the right.

I have one Chinese IEC cable (came with my Rigol digital CRO ) that has no
Australian approval - but still follows this convention.

The same convention applies in the UK and the EU but I am not sure about the
USA.


.... Phil





Same convention as Australian general purpose outlets.(power points)

 

[Tom]

On 16/02/2011 10:59 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

"who where"

I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?


** Any IEC lead on sale or supplied with equipment in Australia is required
to have type approval and be labelled to show that such approval has been
obtained. Both plugs and the cable itself are labelled with a number -
prefixed by a letter indicating which state granted the approval ( N, Q, V,
S, W etc).

If you look as the IEC female from the end view and with the earth pin
upwards, Active should be on the right.

I have one Chinese IEC cable (came with my Rigol digital CRO ) that has no
Australian approval - but still follows this convention.

The same convention applies in the UK and the EU but I am not sure about the
USA.

Most EU countries have symmetrical power plugs and they can be plugged
in both ways, you get live and neutral changing depending on how you
plug it in.

Tom

 

[John G]

who where brought next idea :

I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Why do you need to know?

Even if there is a Standard you cannot rely on it as any outlet could
be wrong.
No device should be built such that the polarity is important.

--
John G

 

[who where]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:53:01 +1100, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

who where brought next idea :
I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Why do you need to know?

Even if there is a Standard you cannot rely on it as any outlet could
be wrong.

I have a variac with a C14-style inlet and a C13-style outlet. The
internal cabling intrinsically "assumes" that a particular inlet pin
is the neutral, being the common (aka cold end) of the core winding.

If it turns out to be the active, apart from the outlet being
"incorrect", the load equipment's circuitry (neutral) is no longer at
the expected potential.

No device should be built such that the polarity is important.

Indeed, but this exists. A double-pole switch following the inlet
recptacle doesn't avoid the issue mentioned above.

 

[John G]

who where presented the following explanation :

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:53:01 +1100, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au
wrote:

who where brought next idea :
I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Why do you need to know?

Even if there is a Standard you cannot rely on it as any outlet could
be wrong.

I have a variac with a C14-style inlet and a C13-style outlet. The
internal cabling intrinsically "assumes" that a particular inlet pin
is the neutral, being the common (aka cold end) of the core winding.
More fool you or it. Assume makes an ass of you.

If it turns out to be the active, apart from the outlet being
"incorrect", the load equipment's circuitry (neutral) is no longer at
the expected potential.
If the load equipment feels badly about the neutral being at the wrong

potential then the load equipment was designed by somone who should not
be let design things.

No device should be built such that the polarity is important.

Indeed, but this exists. A double-pole switch following the inlet
recptacle doesn't avoid the issue mentioned above.
No it does not, and how many devices have a double pole switch which

any way has no effect when turned on.

--
John G

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Git"

I have a variac with a C14-style inlet and a C13-style outlet. The
internal cabling intrinsically "assumes" that a particular inlet pin
is the neutral, being the common (aka cold end) of the core winding.

More fool you or it. Assume makes an ass of you.

** Active neutral reversal makes a Variac a dangerous piece of bench gear to
have around.

Shame a fuckwit like you has not found that out the hard way.

If the load equipment feels badly about the neutral being at the wrong
potential then the load equipment was designed by somone who should not be
let design things.

** Maybe so.

But such pieces of gear exist - particularly 120 volt US market appliances
of a few decades ago.

Shame a fuckwit like you has not found that out the hard way.

No device should be built such that the polarity is important.

** Until you open it up on the work bench - then it is.

Shame a fuckwit like you has not found that out the hard way.



..... Phil

 

[who where]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:59:46 +1100, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

who where presented the following explanation :
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:53:01 +1100, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au
wrote:

who where brought next idea :
I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Why do you need to know?

Even if there is a Standard you cannot rely on it as any outlet could
be wrong.

I have a variac with a C14-style inlet and a C13-style outlet. The
internal cabling intrinsically "assumes" that a particular inlet pin
is the neutral, being the common (aka cold end) of the core winding.
More fool you or it. Assume makes an ass of you.

*I* don't assume. The existing internal wiring is the way it is.

If it turns out to be the active, apart from the outlet being
"incorrect", the load equipment's circuitry (neutral) is no longer at
the expected potential.
If the load equipment feels badly about the neutral being at the wrong
potential then the load equipment was designed by somone who should not
be let design things.

And you *assume* that all load equipment isn't in that category?

No device should be built such that the polarity is important.

Indeed, but this exists. A double-pole switch following the inlet
recptacle doesn't avoid the issue mentioned above.
No it does not, and how many devices have a double pole switch which
any way has no effect when turned on.

Of course it has no effect when turned on - shite! Talk of stating
the blindingly obvious. All it does is avoid the situation of a
switched neutral and live guts in the variac leading to a potentially
hazardous situation with unknown load equipment. I don't know what
you would use a variac for, but I use them servicing equipment which
is presented for service because it is FAULTY. Faulty load and a
single pole switch in the neutral is an accident waiting to happen. I
avoid those situations.

Which is all getting away from the original question - is there a
prescribed pinout for these connectors. It seems there may only be a
"convention".

 

[Phil Allison]

"who where"

Of course it has no effect when turned on - shite! Talk of stating
the blindingly obvious. All it does is avoid the situation of a
switched neutral and live guts in the variac leading to a potentially
hazardous situation with unknown load equipment. I don't know what
you would use a variac for, but I use them servicing equipment which
is presented for service because it is FAULTY. Faulty load and a
single pole switch in the neutral is an accident waiting to happen. I
avoid those situations.

** The learned folk who make up the various wiring rules and ponder deeply
on " conventions " for plug and socket sets do not give a * flying fuck *
about the welfare of anyone who choses to work on the insides of electrical
or electronic equipment while it is STILL being powered from the AC supply
!!!!!

We are basically in the same category are circus trapeze artists without a
net and one eyed motorcycle riders.

Expendable.............

Laws for self perseveration:

1. Use an ELCB and wear eye glasses at all times.

2. Expect the unexpected.

3. Even 3 pin plugs with active on earth.



..... Phil

 

[Chas]

"who where" <noone@home.net> wrote in message
news:av9nl65e49c31eulssb26s0v6q2jhbrpsl@4ax.com...

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:59:46 +1100, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au
wrote:

who where presented the following explanation :
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:53:01 +1100, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au
wrote:

who where brought next idea :
I haven't been able to find an authoritative identification of the
active and neutral pins on these ubiquitous connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_connector

Examining all the "kettle cords" from the pooter and other hardware
here only furthers the view that some manufacturers don't know/care if
there is a specific pin assignment (other than earth).

Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Why do you need to know?

Even if there is a Standard you cannot rely on it as any outlet could
be wrong.

I have a variac with a C14-style inlet and a C13-style outlet. The
internal cabling intrinsically "assumes" that a particular inlet pin
is the neutral, being the common (aka cold end) of the core winding.
More fool you or it. Assume makes an ass of you.

*I* don't assume. The existing internal wiring is the way it is.

If it turns out to be the active, apart from the outlet being
"incorrect", the load equipment's circuitry (neutral) is no longer at
the expected potential.
If the load equipment feels badly about the neutral being at the wrong
potential then the load equipment was designed by somone who should not
be let design things.

And you *assume* that all load equipment isn't in that category?

No device should be built such that the polarity is important.

Indeed, but this exists. A double-pole switch following the inlet
recptacle doesn't avoid the issue mentioned above.
No it does not, and how many devices have a double pole switch which
any way has no effect when turned on.

Of course it has no effect when turned on - shite! Talk of stating
the blindingly obvious. All it does is avoid the situation of a
switched neutral and live guts in the variac leading to a potentially
hazardous situation with unknown load equipment. I don't know what
you would use a variac for, but I use them servicing equipment which
is presented for service because it is FAULTY. Faulty load and a
single pole switch in the neutral is an accident waiting to happen. I
avoid those situations.

Which is all getting away from the original question - is there a
prescribed pinout for these connectors. It seems there may only be a
"convention".

There must be a very solid "convention" for this. I checked the male
sockets I have from various manufacturers and they all have L, N and E
moulded into the rear of the socket next to the appropriate pins. USA
moulded power cords I have checked are made to correctly connect active to
the L pin of the male socket.
--
Regards,

Chas.

(To email me, replace "xxx" with letters tango papa golf.)