idea - wireless distributed home alarm system

R

rowan194

Guest
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?
 
rowan194 wrote:
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?
Click to expand...
Cost of duplicated circuitry would be a factor, all that repeated power
and control (how do you turn them off?) wiring too.

You could kill it by removing the power - unless each sensor/siren had a
backup battery (more expense).

I can't see this being viable n a very competitive market.
 
Caliban wrote:
rowan194 wrote:
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?


Cost of duplicated circuitry would be a factor, all that repeated power
and control (how do you turn them off?) wiring too.

You could kill it by removing the power - unless each sensor/siren had a
backup battery (more expense).

I can't see this being viable n a very competitive market.
Click to expand...

After a couple false alarms he'd be running around ripping the
batteries out of every device. This was the advantage of hard wired
systems. They critical points in the system were monitored for
tampering. Just removing certain screws or jumpering any of the wiring
could set the alarm off.

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
Caliban wrote:
rowan194 wrote:
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each
sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be
brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message
sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?


Cost of duplicated circuitry would be a factor, all that repeated
power
and control (how do you turn them off?) wiring too.

You could kill it by removing the power - unless each sensor/siren
had a
backup battery (more expense).
Click to expand...
I'm talking about a wireless system, thus there is no single point that
you can disconnect (or damage) to disable the system.

Each sensor box would have a battery, microcontroller, sensor and piezo
speaker. Possibly a small solar panel also, since most of them will be
mounted on windows. Most of the time would be spent in sleep mode with
the uC occasionally waking up to broadcast its status, or flash a
deterrent LED.

False alarms are an issue, so is ongoing development (I can't imagine
that having to reflash 20 window sensors and a couple of PIRs stuck on
the ceiling will be fun)

I can't see this being viable n a very competitive market.
Click to expand...
Probably not, but I'm intending to build it for use in my own home. :)
 
rowan194 wrote:
Caliban wrote:

rowan194 wrote:

Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each

sensor

containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be

brute

forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message

sequence

used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?


Cost of duplicated circuitry would be a factor, all that repeated

power

and control (how do you turn them off?) wiring too.

You could kill it by removing the power - unless each sensor/siren

had a

backup battery (more expense).


I'm talking about a wireless system, thus there is no single point that
you can disconnect (or damage) to disable the system.

Each sensor box would have a battery, microcontroller, sensor and piezo
speaker. Possibly a small solar panel also, since most of them will be
mounted on windows. Most of the time would be spent in sleep mode with
the uC occasionally waking up to broadcast its status, or flash a
deterrent LED.

False alarms are an issue, so is ongoing development (I can't imagine
that having to reflash 20 window sensors and a couple of PIRs stuck on
the ceiling will be fun)


I can't see this being viable n a very competitive market.


Probably not, but I'm intending to build it for use in my own home. :)
Click to expand...
Have a look at the Zigbee wireless modules.

The chipcon CC2420 is a good start:
http://www.chipcon.com/index.cfm?kat_id=2&subkat_id=12&dok_id=115

Also Microchip have a Zigbee development board but it's not cheap:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en021925
 
On 29 Mar 2005 10:22:25 -0800, "rowan194" <googlegroups@sensation.net.au> wrote:

Caliban wrote:
rowan194 wrote:
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each
sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be
brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message
sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?


Cost of duplicated circuitry would be a factor, all that repeated
power
and control (how do you turn them off?) wiring too.

You could kill it by removing the power - unless each sensor/siren
had a
backup battery (more expense).

I'm talking about a wireless system, thus there is no single point that
you can disconnect (or damage) to disable the system.

Each sensor box would have a battery, microcontroller, sensor and piezo
speaker. Possibly a small solar panel also, since most of them will be
mounted on windows. Most of the time would be spent in sleep mode with
the uC occasionally waking up to broadcast its status, or flash a
deterrent LED.

False alarms are an issue, so is ongoing development (I can't imagine
that having to reflash 20 window sensors and a couple of PIRs stuck on
the ceiling will be fun)

I can't see this being viable n a very competitive market.

Probably not, but I'm intending to build it for use in my own home. :)
Click to expand...
It'd probably be pretty spiffy if you got it all to work though.

Have a look at Zigbee RF comms. Its a cheap, low power, low data rate,
networked system. It should be ideal for your use. There's a description
of it in February and March 2005 issues of Circuit Cellar. They even have
a contest going using the Zigbee devices.

http://www.circuitcellar.com/
http://www.zigbee.org/en/index.asp

Nordic have some cheap low power transceiver chips as well.
http://www.nvlsi.no/index.cfm?obj=product&act=display&pro=83
 
"rowan194" <googlegroups@sensation.net.au> wrote in message news:<1112100110.185876.156590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?
Click to expand...
I had thought of this a while ago but using standard home alarm
components, using a code hopping UHF car alarm in the sensors. This
would send a secure signal back to the normal home alarm panel inputs.
Depending on how many ZONES and devices you need, each ZONE would
require a different receiver.
Oatley Electronics have a receiver unit that can accept up to 15
transmitters.

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/remote.html

This means each ZONE can have up to 15 sensors connected to it.
You would then use the alarm output to trigger the sirens/lights etc,
which could be hard-wired or remote(via another transmitter/receiver).
Throw in the $50- Jaycar Nokia SMS kit and you would have one hell of
a home alarm/notification/automation system...

Just a thought.
Scott B.
 
"Scott B" <superscan811@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:4647a23d.0503300737.52bd882a@posting.google.com...
"rowan194" <googlegroups@sensation.net.au> wrote in message
news:<1112100110.185876.156590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?

I had thought of this a while ago but using standard home alarm
components, using a code hopping UHF car alarm in the sensors. This
would send a secure signal back to the normal home alarm panel inputs.
Depending on how many ZONES and devices you need, each ZONE would
require a different receiver.
Oatley Electronics have a receiver unit that can accept up to 15
transmitters.

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/remote.html

This means each ZONE can have up to 15 sensors connected to it.
You would then use the alarm output to trigger the sirens/lights etc,
which could be hard-wired or remote(via another transmitter/receiver).
Throw in the $50- Jaycar Nokia SMS kit and you would have one hell of
a home alarm/notification/automation system...

Just a thought.
Scott B.
Click to expand...
Yes, that notification point can be a pain - having driven across the city
recently to attend a false alarm. My current thinking is to duplicate the
few sensors I have. ie position 2 at different locations in a room or
hallway so that both would need to be active at the same time to cause an
alarm. Has anyone tried this?

Cheers.
 
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:18:42 +0000, Chris wrote:

"Scott B" <superscan811@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:4647a23d.0503300737.52bd882a@posting.google.com...
"rowan194" <googlegroups@sensation.net.au> wrote in message
news:<1112100110.185876.156590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
Instead of passive sensors reporting back to an active control
box/panel with a siren, why not a distributed system with each sensor
containing its own siren?

If one sensor is tripped then it sends out a signal and all of the
other sensor locations squeal. There is no one point that can be brute
forced to kill the system; you would need to crack the message sequence
used to command the sensors to arm or disarm.

Maybe this has already been done...?

I had thought of this a while ago but using standard home alarm
components, using a code hopping UHF car alarm in the sensors. This
would send a secure signal back to the normal home alarm panel inputs.
Depending on how many ZONES and devices you need, each ZONE would
require a different receiver.
Oatley Electronics have a receiver unit that can accept up to 15
transmitters.

http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/remote.html

This means each ZONE can have up to 15 sensors connected to it.
You would then use the alarm output to trigger the sirens/lights etc,
which could be hard-wired or remote(via another transmitter/receiver).
Throw in the $50- Jaycar Nokia SMS kit and you would have one hell of
a home alarm/notification/automation system...

Just a thought.
Scott B.

Yes, that notification point can be a pain - having driven across the city
recently to attend a false alarm. My current thinking is to duplicate the
few sensors I have. ie position 2 at different locations in a room or
hallway so that both would need to be active at the same time to cause an
alarm. Has anyone tried this?

Cheers.
Click to expand...
You could arrange the logic so that if the one sensor tripped twice
within say one minute, or two different sensors tripped then activate
the alarm. Cheaper than two sensors per room. Also, you can use dual
detection sensors. These use IR and microwave sensors built into one unit,
and both sensors need to trip to activate the output.

David
 
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