ICL5610, what is that?

J

jodleren

Guest
Hello

I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM :)
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?

And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?

I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists

Any help apriciated.

WBR
Sonnich
 
replaced by 82S123
http://www.embeddedFORTH.de/temp/82s123.pdf
Click to expand...

I still dont know what they are doing,
The good news is that you can read them out,
Click to expand...
they are not old PLDs.
But they may be hard to replace. Old PROMs
( hopefully unused ) do show up at ebay
from time to time. But the manufacturers
rarely published the specs how to program
them.

MfG JRD
 
On Nov 6, 9:11 am, jodleren <sonn...@hot.ee> wrote:
Hello

I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM :)
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?

And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?

I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists
Click to expand...
Bipolar PROM's are very stable. Not infinite-lived but better than say
UV EPROM's or today's flash memory.

30 years ago they were often used mixed in with random logic for
simple decoders etc. sorta like PAL's were used in the 80's and early
90's.

Tim.
 
"jodleren" <sonnich@hot.ee> schreef in bericht
news:723ada54-20f2-4acd-bc85-0b1892974a04@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Hello

I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM :)
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?

And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?

I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists

Any help apriciated.

WBR
Sonnich
Click to expand...
FAIK the 82S123 and is predecessor the 82S23 are 32 bytes Schottky TTL PROMs
first introduced by Signetics. At the time they were fast, reliable and
power hungry. Don't know whether modern programmers can read/write them but
as they are very small PROMs, you can easily read them "by hand" on a simple
breadboard.

Compatible chips were produced by Texas and AMD amongst others. That
compatibilty did *not* cover the programming specifications. So if you want
to program that chips yourself you'll have to make absolutely sure your
programmer can handle the type at hand.

Though the 82S123 may not be available anymore, I saw some compatibles
offered lately. Priced $5.-

petrus bitbyter
 
Basically I should replace that old part,
but e.g. those 5 chips make it a bit harder :)
Click to expand...
Getting new compatible PROMs for the
old boards is not very viable.

If there is space it may be easier to plug
a small board in the socket that contains
another IC. Perhaps a GAL 16V8 will be
sufficient. Timing, insufficient drivelevel
of outputs may cause subtle problems.

A cleaner approach is often analyzing the
function of the old board and replacing it
with a new board and modern parts ( CPLDs ).

MfG JRD
 
On Nov 6, 5:02 pm, Rafael Deliano <Rafael_DelianoENTFER...@t-
online.de> wrote:
 > replaced by 82S123http://www.embeddedFORTH.de/temp/82s123.pdf

I still dont know what they are doing,

The good news is that you can read them out,
they are not old PLDs.
But they may be hard to replace. Old PROMs
( hopefully unused ) do show up at ebay
from time to time. But the manufacturers
rarely published the specs how to program
them.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will look at it. Basically I should replace that old part,
but e.g. those 5 chips make it a bit harder :)

WBR
Sonnich
 
"Rafael Deliano" <Rafael_DelianoENTFERNEN@t-online.de> schreef in bericht
news:hd1kdr$9q0$03$1@news.t-online.com...
Basically I should replace that old part,
but e.g. those 5 chips make it a bit harder :)

Getting new compatible PROMs for the
old boards is not very viable.

If there is space it may be easier to plug
a small board in the socket that contains
another IC. Perhaps a GAL 16V8 will be
sufficient. Timing, insufficient drivelevel
of outputs may cause subtle problems.

A cleaner approach is often analyzing the
function of the old board and replacing it
with a new board and modern parts ( CPLDs ).

MfG JRD
Click to expand...
Well, I've analysed that type of old circuits several times. Sometimes it's
easy most times it's not. Can't say much more without knowing the actual
board.

petrus bitbyter
 
petrus bitbyter wrote:
"jodleren" <sonnich@hot.ee> schreef in bericht
news:723ada54-20f2-4acd-bc85-0b1892974a04@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Hello

I am repairing some old stuff, and on one of 11 boards there are some
ICL5610, some replaced by 82S123 (with a 5610 label on*) - lookslike a
PROM :)
* all 5 one one spare board are labeled 5610 - so the software is the
same for all of them?
I could not find any datasheet? Could anyone help me?

And, they are ~30 years old. Are the still "alive"? Can they survive
for that long?

I still dont know what they are doing, it is a Pfauter 320 machine -
for making gears.
They are in the electronic gear box.
BTW: I want to but used boards if tehy exists

Any help apriciated.

WBR
Sonnich

FAIK the 82S123 and is predecessor the 82S23 are 32 bytes Schottky TTL PROMs
first introduced by Signetics. At the time they were fast, reliable and
power hungry. Don't know whether modern programmers can read/write them but
as they are very small PROMs, you can easily read them "by hand" on a simple
breadboard.

Compatible chips were produced by Texas and AMD amongst others. That
compatibilty did *not* cover the programming specifications. So if you want
to program that chips yourself you'll have to make absolutely sure your
programmer can handle the type at hand.

Though the 82S123 may not be available anymore, I saw some compatibles
offered lately. Priced $5.-

petrus bitbyter
Click to expand...

A simple circuit can be built to read the data by setting the address
lines and reading the outputs to create a chart by hand. Start at 00000
and record the data, then increment the address by 1 & repeat until all
the data is recovered.

Some of the very early Signetics data books had a sample programmer
circuit, but recommended buying a commercial programmer. BTW, some old
burglar alarm systems used these chips to store phone numbers, and had
external programmers.


--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
 
Some of the very early Signetics data books had a sample programmer
circuit, but recommended buying a commercial programmer.
Click to expand...
Signetics did have the specification published:
http://www.embeddedforth.de/temp/sig-gen.pdf
Harris too:
http://www.embeddedforth.de/temp/harris-sig.pdf
The Harris 32x8:
http://www.embeddedforth.de/temp/harris-prom.pdf
The MMI 32x8 would be the 63S081 but they didn´t
publish the specs for programming.
According to their 1985 crossreference:
AMD 27S19
Harris 7603
National 74S287
Signetics 82S123
TI 18S030

MfG JRD
 
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