IcePower 200ASC amp module

G

Gareth Magennis

Guest
Hi,

can't find any schematics for this module - its a Bang & Olufsun combined
SMPS/Class D audio amp PCB.

The one I have has the exact same fault as this one:
http://forum.recordere.dk/uploads/36113/icepower3.jpg


Blown cap (presumably), but no way of finding out what it was.
There are other photos on the Interweb of this board which show the unmarked
device not blown up.

There's about 330v DC across the remains, and my amp module still works
without it.



This is in a powered Studio Monitor Sub, seems these modules are reasonably
popular in this kind of thing - B&O would not sell these to the public,
though I read on a forum while Googling today that they might now, but are
prohibitively expensive.


Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to the
three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess current
sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the transformer which is
at high HT.


Cheers,


Gareth.
 
Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to
the three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess
current sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the
transformer which is at high HT.


another way to figure it our is this...

look up the data sheet for the active devices on the board.

often the data sheet will have schematics for example applications and often the UUT is pretty much exactly like the app notes.

M
 
On 21/07/2016 19:31, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hi,

can't find any schematics for this module - its a Bang & Olufsun
combined SMPS/Class D audio amp PCB.

The one I have has the exact same fault as this one:
http://forum.recordere.dk/uploads/36113/icepower3.jpg


Blown cap (presumably), but no way of finding out what it was.
There are other photos on the Interweb of this board which show the
unmarked device not blown up.

There's about 330v DC across the remains, and my amp module still works
without it.



This is in a powered Studio Monitor Sub, seems these modules are
reasonably popular in this kind of thing - B&O would not sell these to
the public, though I read on a forum while Googling today that they
might now, but are prohibitively expensive.


Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to
the three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess
current sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the
transformer which is at high HT.


Cheers,


Gareth.

So a stock fault means what was in there was not right spec.
I would trace out the associated comps to get an idea what it was doing.
Condsruction type of cap?
Volume would give , for the type of construction, assuming 400V rating
an idea of its capacity. Put 2 caps in there of 250V rating or 1 600V
rating and whatever nF will physically go in there.
 
On 21/07/2016 19:31, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hi,

can't find any schematics for this module - its a Bang & Olufsun
combined SMPS/Class D audio amp PCB.

The one I have has the exact same fault as this one:
http://forum.recordere.dk/uploads/36113/icepower3.jpg


Blown cap (presumably), but no way of finding out what it was.
There are other photos on the Interweb of this board which show the
unmarked device not blown up.

There's about 330v DC across the remains, and my amp module still works
without it.



This is in a powered Studio Monitor Sub, seems these modules are
reasonably popular in this kind of thing - B&O would not sell these to
the public, though I read on a forum while Googling today that they
might now, but are prohibitively expensive.


Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to
the three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess
current sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the
transformer which is at high HT.


Cheers,


Gareth.

Do barrel format SMD-R have a higher voltage rating,r for r, than slab
formats?
 
On 21/07/2016 20:41, makolber@yahoo.com wrote:
Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to
the three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess
current sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the
transformer which is at high HT.


another way to figure it our is this...

look up the data sheet for the active devices on the board.

often the data sheet will have schematics for example applications and often the UUT is pretty much exactly like the app notes.

M

Perhaps the supervisor IC, nothing of use on driver
http://datasheet.octopart.com/STW11NM80-STMicroelectronics-datasheet-24223.pdf
 
wrote in message
news:24311c0a-ea31-4180-8dd8-16e7cb545f72@googlegroups.com...


Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to
the three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess
current sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the
transformer which is at high HT.


another way to figure it our is this...

look up the data sheet for the active devices on the board.

often the data sheet will have schematics for example applications and often
the UUT is pretty much exactly like the app notes.

M







Cheers, I am being a bit lazy, but you do tend to learn a few things by
asking questions here as well :)

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/87884.pdf?_ga=1.33261950.1327271115.1429123757

Page 2 - the cap is probably a small bypass cap not on the schematic on the
transformer HT winding to ground.



Thing is, this component looks like the achilles heel in this particular
design, unless duff components were sourced.
Else something else is blowing the component.



Gareth.
 
On 21/07/2016 21:32, Gareth Magennis wrote:
wrote in message
news:24311c0a-ea31-4180-8dd8-16e7cb545f72@googlegroups.com...



Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to
the three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess
current sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the
transformer which is at high HT.


another way to figure it our is this...

look up the data sheet for the active devices on the board.

often the data sheet will have schematics for example applications and
often the UUT is pretty much exactly like the app notes.

M







Cheers, I am being a bit lazy, but you do tend to learn a few things by
asking questions here as well :)

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/87884.pdf?_ga=1.33261950.1327271115.1429123757


Page 2 - the cap is probably a small bypass cap not on the schematic on
the transformer HT winding to ground.



Thing is, this component looks like the achilles heel in this particular
design, unless duff components were sourced.
Else something else is blowing the component.



Gareth.

The Rs and C connected to CS pin3 of the supervisor?

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NCP1203-D.PDF
 
Failure of this cap blew the PCB mounted mains fuse, rendering the unit dead
and requiring repair, so this is definitely a known issue.


Gareth.
 
On 21/07/2016 21:51, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Failure of this cap blew the PCB mounted mains fuse, rendering the unit
dead and requiring repair, so this is definitely a known issue.


Gareth.

This DVD apparently uses NCP1203, not downloaded the schematic though
http://www.go-gddq.com/upload/2009_07/09070211291778.pdf
 
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:02:43 AM UTC+1, N_Cook wrote:
Shinco DVD-2610 on Elektrotanya
assuming the SJK is an HV diode and 2x 4148 in the pic, then probably
much the same circuit

Right, now I'm back in the lab, turns out this really is just a bypass cap, it's connected directly accross the main HT cap. I had at first assumed it was connected to the current sense circuit or thereabouts.

No bypass caps on any of the other circuits using this controller though, I guess a high voltage 0.1uF will do. (not SMD this time)


Thanks for the schematic links,


Gareth.
 
Shinco DVD-2610 on Elektrotanya
assuming the SJK is an HV diode and 2x 4148 in the pic, then probably
much the same circuit
 
On 22/07/2016 10:03, sound.service@btconnect.com wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:02:43 AM UTC+1, N_Cook wrote:
Shinco DVD-2610 on Elektrotanya
assuming the SJK is an HV diode and 2x 4148 in the pic, then probably
much the same circuit


Right, now I'm back in the lab, turns out this really is just a bypass cap, it's connected directly accross the main HT cap. I had at first assumed it was connected to the current sense circuit or thereabouts.

No bypass caps on any of the other circuits using this controller though, I guess a high voltage 0.1uF will do. (not SMD this time)


Thanks for the schematic links,


Gareth.

I wonder if it was a multi-layer cap in there with metal migration
growth leading to short.
Any other similar caps on there?
 
"N_Cook" wrote in message news:nmsslu$fp3$1@dont-email.me...

On 22/07/2016 10:03, sound.service@btconnect.com wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:02:43 AM UTC+1, N_Cook wrote:
Shinco DVD-2610 on Elektrotanya
assuming the SJK is an HV diode and 2x 4148 in the pic, then probably
much the same circuit


Right, now I'm back in the lab, turns out this really is just a bypass
cap, it's connected directly accross the main HT cap. I had at first
assumed it was connected to the current sense circuit or thereabouts.

No bypass caps on any of the other circuits using this controller though,
I guess a high voltage 0.1uF will do. (not SMD this time)


Thanks for the schematic links,


Gareth.

I wonder if it was a multi-layer cap in there with metal migration
growth leading to short.
Any other similar caps on there?







Not my photo, but this is a new PCB:
http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab83/audiosteve1/IMG_8676.jpg

My blown cap is the one in the middle of the bottom of the PCB, below the 3
parallel sense resistors and between FET TR200 and Tx T200.



Gareth.
 
"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message news:0ttkz.867178$rI.825966@fx37.am4...



"N_Cook" wrote in message news:nmsslu$fp3$1@dont-email.me...

On 22/07/2016 10:03, sound.service@btconnect.com wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:02:43 AM UTC+1, N_Cook wrote:
Shinco DVD-2610 on Elektrotanya
assuming the SJK is an HV diode and 2x 4148 in the pic, then probably
much the same circuit


Right, now I'm back in the lab, turns out this really is just a bypass
cap, it's connected directly accross the main HT cap. I had at first
assumed it was connected to the current sense circuit or thereabouts.

No bypass caps on any of the other circuits using this controller though,
I guess a high voltage 0.1uF will do. (not SMD this time)


Thanks for the schematic links,


Gareth.

I wonder if it was a multi-layer cap in there with metal migration
growth leading to short.
Any other similar caps on there?







Not my photo, but this is a new PCB:
http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab83/audiosteve1/IMG_8676.jpg

My blown cap is the one in the middle of the bottom of the PCB, below the 3
parallel sense resistors and between FET TR200 and Tx T200.



Gareth.







This small SMD cap is carrying rectified 240v mains voltage. Is that wise?


Gareth.
 
On 22/07/2016 19:19, Gareth Magennis wrote:
"N_Cook" wrote in message news:nmsslu$fp3$1@dont-email.me...

On 22/07/2016 10:03, sound.service@btconnect.com wrote:
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 9:02:43 AM UTC+1, N_Cook wrote:
Shinco DVD-2610 on Elektrotanya
assuming the SJK is an HV diode and 2x 4148 in the pic, then probably
much the same circuit


Right, now I'm back in the lab, turns out this really is just a bypass
cap, it's connected directly accross the main HT cap. I had at first
assumed it was connected to the current sense circuit or thereabouts.

No bypass caps on any of the other circuits using this controller
though, I guess a high voltage 0.1uF will do. (not SMD this time)


Thanks for the schematic links,


Gareth.


I wonder if it was a multi-layer cap in there with metal migration
growth leading to short.
Any other similar caps on there?







Not my photo, but this is a new PCB:
http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab83/audiosteve1/IMG_8676.jpg

My blown cap is the one in the middle of the bottom of the PCB, below
the 3 parallel sense resistors and between FET TR200 and Tx T200.



Gareth.

I suppose a 400V MLCC can suffer from metal migration as the numerous
50V notorious MLCC failures.
I've not looked for any manufacturers of 400V rated devils, I assume
they exist, should anyone be foolhardy to use them
 
So SMD 400V MLCC caps do exist (or did exist)
http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/AVX/22258C224KAT9A/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvsSlwiRhF8qtMAW1uaXrptEm0l1HszexY%3d


non-stocked, none on order, I wonder why
 
El jueves, 21 de julio de 2016, 20:31:31 (UTC+2), Gareth Magennis escribiĂł:
Hi,

can't find any schematics for this module - its a Bang & Olufsun combined
SMPS/Class D audio amp PCB.

The one I have has the exact same fault as this one:
http://forum.recordere.dk/uploads/36113/icepower3.jpg


Blown cap (presumably), but no way of finding out what it was.
There are other photos on the Interweb of this board which show the unmarked
device not blown up.

There's about 330v DC across the remains, and my amp module still works
without it.



This is in a powered Studio Monitor Sub, seems these modules are reasonably
popular in this kind of thing - B&O would not sell these to the public,
though I read on a forum while Googling today that they might now, but are
prohibitively expensive.


Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to the
three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess current
sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the transformer which is
at high HT.


Cheers,


Gareth.

Hola, el condensador es de 2,2pf 2kv y poner un fusible de 3,15a y a funcionar.
 
responding to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/icepower-200asc-amp-module-165648-.htm ,
Hugo wrote:
I have exactly the same issue with mine!

Did you happen to find the right part? Would love to know what to replace it
with.

Cheers

Hugo
 
"Hugo" wrote in message news:2S%aA.334210$HF2.170208@fx41.iad...

responding to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/icepower-200asc-amp-module-165648-.htm ,
Hugo wrote:
I have exactly the same issue with mine!

Did you happen to find the right part? Would love to know what to replace it
with.

Cheers

Hugo







I used a non SMD cap, read the entire thread.

Gareth.
 
On 9/14/2016 9:53 AM, javielectronicamateos@gmail.com wrote:
El jueves, 21 de julio de 2016, 20:31:31 (UTC+2), Gareth Magennis escribiĂł:
Hi,

can't find any schematics for this module - its a Bang & Olufsun combined
SMPS/Class D audio amp PCB.

The one I have has the exact same fault as this one:
http://forum.recordere.dk/uploads/36113/icepower3.jpg


Blown cap (presumably), but no way of finding out what it was.
There are other photos on the Interweb of this board which show the unmarked
device not blown up.

There's about 330v DC across the remains, and my amp module still works
without it.



This is in a powered Studio Monitor Sub, seems these modules are reasonably
popular in this kind of thing - B&O would not sell these to the public,
though I read on a forum while Googling today that they might now, but are
prohibitively expensive.


Any smart guesses what I should be putting in there? One end goes to the
three paralleled resistors which are very low ohmage and I guess current
sense at ground, the other goes to the first pin of the transformer which is
at high HT.


Cheers,


Gareth.

Hola, el condensador es de 2,2pf 2kv y poner un fusible de 3,15a y a funcionar.
Google translation.
Hi, the capacitor is 2.2pf 2kv and put a fuse of 3.15a and run.
Mikek

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