IC needed (out of SONY unit)

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

Hi, all

I am after an IC STIL04-P5. It is "inrush current limiter" and came out of
SONY laptop power supply.

Speedy Spares do not carry parts for laptops and this IC did no t came up on
the computer. Call to SONY Australia revealed that they only sell complete
units (what a surprise!).

Anyway, I am after this IC or SONY part number for it. Can anyone help me?

Thanks,
Rudolf

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:39:39 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
<rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

Hi, all

I am after an IC STIL04-P5. It is "inrush current limiter" and came out of
SONY laptop power supply.

Speedy Spares do not carry parts for laptops and this IC did no t came up on
the computer. Call to SONY Australia revealed that they only sell complete
units (what a surprise!).

Anyway, I am after this IC or SONY part number for it. Can anyone help me?

Thanks,
Rudolf

Don't know where to get one but it is a current ST product
http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/9061.pdf

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

I know it is a current product.

I called Australian distributors for ST -- Arrow and Braemac. They do not
have listing on their system.
Farnell and RS do not have it either.

Rudolf

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:va0e90ppsaa0qc3nmd6qjio25t6grh2gsp@4ax.com...

On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:39:39 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

Hi, all

I am after an IC STIL04-P5. It is "inrush current limiter" and came out
of
SONY laptop power supply.

Speedy Spares do not carry parts for laptops and this IC did no t came up
on
the computer. Call to SONY Australia revealed that they only sell
complete
units (what a surprise!).

Anyway, I am after this IC or SONY part number for it. Can anyone help
me?

Thanks,
Rudolf



Don't know where to get one but it is a current ST product
http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/9061.pdf

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au>

I know it is a current product.

I called Australian distributors for ST -- Arrow and Braemac. They do not
have listing on their system.
Farnell and RS do not have it either.

** Time to revert to steam age technology - fit an NTC thermistor in
place of that start up resistor !!!




........... Phil

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 04 May 2004 03:24:25 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
<rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

I know it is a current product.

I called Australian distributors for ST -- Arrow and Braemac. They do not
have listing on their system.
Farnell and RS do not have it either.

Rudolf

Yep, replace the input R with a normal NTC inrush limiter as PA
suggests.

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

Did you actually took time to look at the datasheet before suggesting an NTC
thermistor?

A short extract from a datasheet:


Rudolf

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:40971096$0$25012$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au

I know it is a current product.

I called Australian distributors for ST -- Arrow and Braemac. They do
not
have listing on their system.
Farnell and RS do not have it either.




** Time to revert to steam age technology - fit an NTC thermistor
in
place of that start up resistor !!!




.......... Phil

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

Sorry, finger slipped.

Here is the extract:

STILxx is a circuit combining two unidirectional switches for use in a smart
configuration of a primary rectification bridge, mixing diode rectification
and SCR. We call this circuit a Half Controlled Rectifier Bridge (HCRB).

Rudolf

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolfl@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4097539b$0$25007$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Did you actually took time to look at the datasheet before suggesting an
NTC
thermistor?

A short extract from a datasheet:


Rudolf

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:40971096$0$25012$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au

I know it is a current product.

I called Australian distributors for ST -- Arrow and Braemac. They do
not
have listing on their system.
Farnell and RS do not have it either.




** Time to revert to steam age technology - fit an NTC thermistor
in
place of that start up resistor !!!




.......... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolfl@optusnet.com.au>

Did you actually took time to look at the datasheet before suggesting an
NTC
thermistor?

** Yes - did you ?????


............ Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolfl@optusnet.com.au>

STILxx is a circuit combining two unidirectional switches for use in a
smart
configuration of a primary rectification bridge, mixing diode
rectification
and SCR. We call this circuit a Half Controlled Rectifier Bridge (HCRB).

** If you look at the basic circuit and description of operation you will
see that all the damn thing really does is to bypass the start resistor in a
controlled way after switch on.

An NTC thermistor will do the same thing by dropping its value as it
heats.





............ Phil

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

Hi,

There must be a reason for the IC to be there in the first place instead of
cheaper NTC thermistor.

Beside, I am not going to modify customer equipment.

Rudolf

"Phil Allison" <philallison@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:409755fa$0$674$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolfl@optusnet.com.au

STILxx is a circuit combining two unidirectional switches for use in a
smart
configuration of a primary rectification bridge, mixing diode
rectification
and SCR. We call this circuit a Half Controlled Rectifier Bridge (HCRB).



** If you look at the basic circuit and description of operation you will
see that all the damn thing really does is to bypass the start resistor in
a
controlled way after switch on.

An NTC thermistor will do the same thing by dropping its value as it
heats.





........... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au>

Hi,

There must be a reason for the IC to be there in the first place instead
of
cheaper NTC thermistor.

** There are advantages in performance - like I said, NTC thermistors are
an old technology.

Beside, I am not going to modify customer equipment.

** Then you are one of those incompetent techs that re-installs all the
faults when doing repairs.





................ Phil

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 04 May 2004 23:17:18 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
<rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

Hi,

There must be a reason for the IC to be there in the first place instead of
cheaper NTC thermistor.

If you have a look at AN1600 on the ST website it explains why the
STIL is supposedly better.

Beside, I am not going to modify customer equipment.

I don't think any modification would be necessary other than swapping
Ri for the NTC. Instead of working as a half bridge controlled
rectifier it would then operate as a normal full bridge. It shouldn't
be too hard to verify if this is the case.

Ross H

>

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

It all sounds fine, except the legal implication if something goes wrong
(even if this particular part in not the problem).
By modifying it, I effectively void any compliance testing unit went
through, etc, etc, etc...

While I would go ahead and try it in my own unit, I would only use original
parts in customer equipment.

Rudolf

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:srhg90pio53kkn4v11qg8ga4hvj2n5jb5f@4ax.com...

On Tue, 04 May 2004 23:17:18 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

Hi,

There must be a reason for the IC to be there in the first place instead
of
cheaper NTC thermistor.

If you have a look at AN1600 on the ST website it explains why the
STIL is supposedly better.

Beside, I am not going to modify customer equipment.

I don't think any modification would be necessary other than swapping
Ri for the NTC. Instead of working as a half bridge controlled
rectifier it would then operate as a normal full bridge. It shouldn't
be too hard to verify if this is the case.

Ross H

 

[Phil Allison]

"Rudolf Ladyzhenskii" <rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au>

It all sounds fine, except the legal implication if something goes wrong
(even if this particular part in not the problem).
By modifying it, I effectively void any compliance testing unit went
through, etc, etc, etc...

** NTC thermistors are used in massive number of appliances, in the AC
supply line and elsewhere.

Wonder how they manage to comply ???

While I would go ahead and try it in my own unit, I would only use
original
parts in customer equipment.

** So you are one of those incompetent techs that re-installs the same
fault - every time.

You never up-grade a component, you never use an alternative, you never
buy the dubious stuff WES sells - you ONLY use "official" spares as
supplied by the equipment maker etc etc.

How anal.





............ Phil

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Wed, 05 May 2004 02:57:05 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
<rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

It all sounds fine, except the legal implication if something goes wrong
(even if this particular part in not the problem).
By modifying it, I effectively void any compliance testing unit went
through, etc, etc, etc...

While I would go ahead and try it in my own unit, I would only use original
parts in customer equipment.

Rudolf

I can understand your reluctance to alter the original circuitry but
if you explain the alternative to the customer he might agree. As I
see it if you can't source the original component the only option is
to import one at great expense to the customer or do as suggested by
PA and myself. It will have to be the customer's decision which you
should document.

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:srhg90pio53kkn4v11qg8ga4hvj2n5jb5f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 04 May 2004 23:17:18 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

Hi,

There must be a reason for the IC to be there in the first place instead
of
cheaper NTC thermistor.

If you have a look at AN1600 on the ST website it explains why the
STIL is supposedly better.

Beside, I am not going to modify customer equipment.

I don't think any modification would be necessary other than swapping
Ri for the NTC. Instead of working as a half bridge controlled
rectifier it would then operate as a normal full bridge. It shouldn't
be too hard to verify if this is the case.

Ross H

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

It may be customer decision, but my liability.

I'd rather protect myself and lose this repair.

Rudolf

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
newsmmg905u47cm5ainvjcgghltafp9ipku7h@4ax.com...

On Wed, 05 May 2004 02:57:05 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

It all sounds fine, except the legal implication if something goes wrong
(even if this particular part in not the problem).
By modifying it, I effectively void any compliance testing unit went
through, etc, etc, etc...

While I would go ahead and try it in my own unit, I would only use
original
parts in customer equipment.

Rudolf

I can understand your reluctance to alter the original circuitry but
if you explain the alternative to the customer he might agree. As I
see it if you can't source the original component the only option is
to import one at great expense to the customer or do as suggested by
PA and myself. It will have to be the customer's decision which you
should document.


"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:srhg90pio53kkn4v11qg8ga4hvj2n5jb5f@4ax.com...
On Tue, 04 May 2004 23:17:18 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> wrote:

Hi,

There must be a reason for the IC to be there in the first place
instead
of
cheaper NTC thermistor.

If you have a look at AN1600 on the ST website it explains why the
STIL is supposedly better.

Beside, I am not going to modify customer equipment.

I don't think any modification would be necessary other than swapping
Ri for the NTC. Instead of working as a half bridge controlled
rectifier it would then operate as a normal full bridge. It shouldn't
be too hard to verify if this is the case.

Ross H

 

[Bob Urz]

Rudolf Ladyzhenskii wrote:

It may be customer decision, but my liability.

I'd rather protect myself and lose this repair.

Rudolf

Interesting discussion on liability. Do any of you know anyone in

the repair business sued for non original parts or mods?

I have to side with Phil on general thinking. I have used replacement,
upgraded, or non OEM obtained parts to fix things. Sometimes, its the
only economical way (or the ONLY way) to fix things anymore.
There are cases where the original parts had a design deficiency and
you could improve a device by doing this.

Now, i have been threatened to be sued by customers who's unit has been
in the shop for months because i could not get parts or service
information. Or because they oked a repair and then thought it was too
much money. WHen this happens in person, i hand them the phone.
I tell them to call there lawyer now, or hand it back and i will call
the police if a disturbance occurs. Or, i will call the police and
let them resolve this. Of course, i never have yet had to call the
police in this situation.

Now, i have heard of cases on TV where the fire department will blame
a tv or stereo for starting a fire. I wonder how they come to some of
there conclusions. There not techs for one, and if the device is in
cinders it would be rather hard to figure out what really happened.

Bob



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[Phil Allison]

"Bob Urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:4098f887_3@corp.newsgroups.com...

Rudolf Ladyzhenskii wrote:
It may be customer decision, but my liability.

I'd rather protect myself and lose this repair.

Rudolf

Interesting discussion on liability. Do any of you know anyone in
the repair business sued for non original parts or mods?

** Not in appliance repairs - now maybe if you fixed Bell helicopters
for a living ........

I have to side with Phil on general thinking. I have used replacement,
upgraded, or non OEM obtained parts to fix things. Sometimes, its the
only economical way (or the ONLY way) to fix things anymore.
There are cases where the original parts had a design deficiency and
you could improve a device by doing this.

** Upgrading parts as needed and making proper substitutes for common parts
(or where exact replacements are not available) is a major part of a
repair's job and skills.

Now, i have heard of cases on TV where the fire department will blame
a tv or stereo for starting a fire. I wonder how they come to some of
there conclusions. There not techs for one, and if the device is in
cinders it would be rather hard to figure out what really happened.

** Firies can often locate the source of a fire - ie the location where
is must have started. If the remains of a TV is sitting in that same
location, plugged in to the AC supply, they draw the obvious conclusion.





................ Phil

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Tue, 04 May 2004 00:39:39 GMT, "Rudolf Ladyzhenskii"
<rudolf.ladyzhenskii@REMOVEopennw.com.au> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

I am after an IC STIL04-P5. It is "inrush current limiter" and came out of
SONY laptop power supply.

I know you are loathe to implement design changes, but perhaps the
original design is flawed. After all, the part *did* fail.

FWIW, some NEC multisync monitors used an inrush current limiting
resistor paralleled by an SCR. The SCR was made to turn on, and
therefore shunt the resistor, only when the filter cap had charged to
an appropriate level.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Rudolf Ladyzhenskii]

No, I do not know anyone who was sued, but I do not want to be first one
either.

No one will know until something happens (fire or person gets slectricuted,
etc.). Then investigation will show a modified unit, even if this mod is not
the cause. (I am probably being paranoid here).

Being an engineer, I know that when ANY part in the power supply of the unit
is changed, it must go through approval process. Unit was tested for
electrical compliance as well for EMI/EMC and any change can affct the
performance.

I do not have problems using substitute parts, although I prefer originals,
but in this case we are talking about modifying the circuit.

Rudolf

"Bob Urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:4098f887_3@corp.newsgroups.com...

Rudolf Ladyzhenskii wrote:
It may be customer decision, but my liability.

I'd rather protect myself and lose this repair.

Rudolf

Interesting discussion on liability. Do any of you know anyone in
the repair business sued for non original parts or mods?

I have to side with Phil on general thinking. I have used replacement,
upgraded, or non OEM obtained parts to fix things. Sometimes, its the
only economical way (or the ONLY way) to fix things anymore.
There are cases where the original parts had a design deficiency and
you could improve a device by doing this.

Now, i have been threatened to be sued by customers who's unit has been
in the shop for months because i could not get parts or service
information. Or because they oked a repair and then thought it was too
much money. WHen this happens in person, i hand them the phone.
I tell them to call there lawyer now, or hand it back and i will call
the police if a disturbance occurs. Or, i will call the police and
let them resolve this. Of course, i never have yet had to call the
police in this situation.

Now, i have heard of cases on TV where the fire department will blame
a tv or stereo for starting a fire. I wonder how they come to some of
there conclusions. There not techs for one, and if the device is in
cinders it would be rather hard to figure out what really happened.

Bob



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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