IBM W510 Fan Error FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981

[Max Muller]

I have an old W510 with Fan Error and when I power it up with
the keyboard out, I can see the fan spin for a second, and then
shut down (I already blew all the dust out).

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

I think I'll replace the fan, but I want to get the right part
number.

There are two similar part numbers.
Which is the right part number?

FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981

Where do you get your parts?
What is the correct part number?

 

[Paul in Houston TX]

Max Muller wrote:

I have an old W510 with Fan Error and when I power it up with
the keyboard out, I can see the fan spin for a second, and then
shut down (I already blew all the dust out).

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

I think I'll replace the fan, but I want to get the right part
number.

There are two similar part numbers.
Which is the right part number?

FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981

Where do you get your parts?
What is the correct part number?

The correct fan and part number depends on which one is in your machine.
It could be either depending on graphics chip.
I get all my Lenovo parts from Ebay.
Go there and compare fan pictures to yours.
Btw, IBM sold their laptop business to Lenovo in 2005.

 

[Max Muller]

Paul in Houston TX wrote:

The correct fan and part number depends on which one is in your machine.
It could be either depending on graphics chip.
I get all my Lenovo parts from Ebay.
Go there and compare fan pictures to yours.
Btw, IBM sold their laptop business to Lenovo in 2005.

That *is* a picture of the numbers printed on the sticker directly
on the fan!

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

All I'm asking is what are the numbers to look for.

 

[jfeng@my-deja.com]

In IBMspeak, "FRU" usually means "Field Replaceable Unit". So I would interpret that as two part numbers for essentially the same part (maybe the FRU comes with a cardboard box and installation instructions).

That said, fans are pretty standard. First, make sure the dimensions are the same (screw hole positions, thickness, etc.). The old one probably has a voltage and current rating listed on the label: try and get one with the same ratings, but slightly more current is probnably OK (better cooling but shorter battery life).

 

[Paul]

Max Muller wrote:

Paul in Houston TX wrote:

The correct fan and part number depends on which one is in your machine.
It could be either depending on graphics chip.
I get all my Lenovo parts from Ebay.
Go there and compare fan pictures to yours.
Btw, IBM sold their laptop business to Lenovo in 2005.

That *is* a picture of the numbers printed on the sticker directly
on the fan!

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

All I'm asking is what are the numbers to look for.

This seller used both numbers in their advertisement.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vb8AAOSwaNBUfX5r/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vgwAAOSwaNBUfX5v/s-l1600.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-60Y4981-60Y5493-CPU-Cooling-fan-heatsink-for-IBM-Lenovo-W510-T510-laptop-/151499081693#ht_3462wt_1122

FRU stands for Field Replaceable Unit.
P/N stands for Part Number (obviously).

One number might be the item you'd see in a
re-assembly diagram. The other number, what
you order it with. If you were ordering from
Lenovo, you'd likely order the P/N, and there
could be additional items in the box like thermal
paste or screws or whatever.

They don't normally waste two numbers for nothing.
The numbers form a hierarchy, with one number
being for a larger group of bits and pieces than
the other.

The fan label in the picture, says it is a Sunon Maglev.
And apparently doesn't use oil, if I believe what
I'm reading here.

http://www.sunon.com/tw/products/pdf/maglev.pdf

The hardest part of dealing with some of these
items, where it appears they already have thermal
interface material applied, is what you do with
the plastic covers. In some cases, it's obvious
the plastic is to be peeled off, leaving the
sticky or greasy material underneath exposed.

However if the pre-applied material has what looks
like two plastic layers, that could be a thermal pad
impregnated with something, and you wouldn't
take the pad apart. So the fun part, is figuring
out what you're supposed to do when you get it.
I already ruined one item like that, by peeling
off a plastic I wasn't supposed to I repaired
the damage I'd caused, with ordinary thermal interface
material (Arctic Ceramique or similar).

This is why Intel put some of its materials in
a hard plastic shell, so that the paste didn't
need a cover (as long as the box it shipped in
wasn't smashed). The plastic shell holding the item,
prevents the paste area from touching anything.
That uses more plastic, to make a shell to cover
the whole item, but it also removes the ambiguity
about what to do with any plastic covering over
the paste itself. There is nothing to remove or
peel off on those.

You generally get one usage from the thermal interface
material. Be absolutely sure you know how to install
it, before letting it "touch down". Practice removing
and installing the *old* assembly, so you know how
to put it on, while making the least mess. If you
have to remove the item multiple times, the thermal
interface material could get smeared all over the
place, leaving insufficient material for it to function
properly as a conducting thermal path.

There are many different kinds of TIM. There are phase
change materials (which are hard at room temperature).
There are greases, pastes, and dough-like materials.
And each has a best-practice associated with it.
The phase change are the worst, because once the
material is deformed, you can't really put it back
together again, and the stuff is a bitch to scrape off.
They screen-print these materials onto the heatsink,
so you get a precise volume of material.

Good luck.
Paul

 

[Buffalo]

"Max Muller" wrote in message news:nfs5tb$2ah$1@news.mixmin.net...

I have an old W510 with Fan Error and when I power it up with
the keyboard out, I can see the fan spin for a second, and then
shut down (I already blew all the dust out).

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

I think I'll replace the fan, but I want to get the right part
number.

There are two similar part numbers.
Which is the right part number?

FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981

Where do you get your parts?
What is the correct part number?

Not sure what voltage the fan runs at, but you could try to feed temp feed
power to it for a second or two to see if it is the fan that is bad or the
power to it, since that unit is fairly expensive.
Disconnect and reconnect the fan connector several times to make sure the
connection is good. Doing so, burnishes the contacts some to help ensure a
better connection.

--
Buffalo

 

[jfeng@my-deja.com]

First, check to make sure the fan is bad (apply power directly).

Most of the expense in the FRU is in all the plumbing and the heat sinks. If you are a cheapskate (like me), and you are kind of mechanically adventurous, you might replace just the fan. Jameco has brand new cooling fans for under $20
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c161/P84.pdf and it is probably even less if you can find one surplus.

 

[Paul in Houston TX]

Max Muller wrote:

Paul in Houston TX wrote:

The correct fan and part number depends on which one is in your machine.
It could be either depending on graphics chip.
I get all my Lenovo parts from Ebay.
Go there and compare fan pictures to yours.
Btw, IBM sold their laptop business to Lenovo in 2005.

That *is* a picture of the numbers printed on the sticker directly
on the fan!

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

All I'm asking is what are the numbers to look for.

Did you even bother to look on Ebay?

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2016-04-28, Max Muller <maxmuller@info.gathering> wrote:

I have an old W510 with Fan Error and when I power it up with
the keyboard out, I can see the fan spin for a second, and then
shut down (I already blew all the dust out).

http://i.cubeupload.com/PPtURP.gif

The fan in my T400 gave up and I got a replacement for like $5 on
aliexpress, I should have paid $8 and got the fan-heatsink asembly
as replacing the fan only was tricky, and my repair was imperfect.
looks like your one's a bit more expensive.

looks like your fan is $8 but the heatsink assembly is $33
I'd be tempted to try replacing just the fan, and if that fixes the the
problem but goes badly due to a fumble replace the whole thing.

The backlight in my T400 gave out shortly after the fan and I fumbled
the inverter card and blew out the controller on the main board so I
just use it as a stationary computer now.

--
\_(ツ)_

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <nft2lh$sp3$1@news.mixmin.net>, Max Muller
<maxmuller@info.gathering> escribió:

>All I'm asking is what are the numbers to look for.

The FRU number (field replaceable unit, IBM-speak for part) is the one
you want.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

 

[Max Muller]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:35:08 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

The fan in my T400 gave up and I got a replacement for like $5 on
aliexpress, I should have paid $8 and got the fan-heatsink asembly as
replacing the fan only was tricky, and my repair was imperfect. looks like
your one's a bit more expensive.

looks like your fan is $8 but the heatsink assembly is $33 I'd be tempted
to try replacing just the fan, and if that fixes the the problem but goes
badly due to a fumble replace the whole thing.

The backlight in my T400 gave out shortly after the fan and I fumbled the
inverter card and blew out the controller on the main board so I just use
it as a stationary computer now.

Sorry I haven't responded but I haven't had much progress until today.

I left the laptop in the freezer, with cloth around it and a plastic bag
to keep out the moisture, and then I was able to boot it.

The fan is spinning at about 2350 RPM according to the psensor command,
but I don't know if that's the right speed or not because I had never
checked before.

But at least the fan is now spinning (before it wasn't spinning which I
can see because I popped the keyboard out).

Is there a way to "lubricate" the fan bearings?

 

[Max Muller]

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:10:26 -0600, Buffalo wrote:

Not sure what voltage the fan runs at, but you could try to feed temp
feed power to it for a second or two to see if it is the fan that is bad
or the power to it, since that unit is fairly expensive.
Disconnect and reconnect the fan connector several times to make sure the
connection is good. Doing so, burnishes the contacts some to help ensure a
better connection.

The sticker on the unit says the fan+heatsink is FRU 60Y5493 (Lenovo P/N 60Y4981).

The fan is working at the moment but only at around 2500 RPM according to
the psensor graphical command (and I can hear it moving but not objectionably):
http://i.cubeupload.com/UYj76M.gif

I can see the fan spin now (before it wasn't spinning) because I have the
keyboard off:
http://i.cubeupload.com/BFVO2s.gif

Jason mentioned I might be able to just buy the fan since nothing should
be wrong with the heatsink.
http://cubeupload.com/im/OLuYlU.gif

Do you think the fan can be easily purchased alone?
Do you think swapping out just the fan (and not the heatsink) is feasible?

 

[Paul]

Max Muller wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:35:08 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote:

The fan in my T400 gave up and I got a replacement for like $5 on
aliexpress, I should have paid $8 and got the fan-heatsink asembly as
replacing the fan only was tricky, and my repair was imperfect. looks like
your one's a bit more expensive.

looks like your fan is $8 but the heatsink assembly is $33 I'd be tempted
to try replacing just the fan, and if that fixes the the problem but goes
badly due to a fumble replace the whole thing.

The backlight in my T400 gave out shortly after the fan and I fumbled the
inverter card and blew out the controller on the main board so I just use
it as a stationary computer now.

Sorry I haven't responded but I haven't had much progress until today.

I left the laptop in the freezer, with cloth around it and a plastic bag
to keep out the moisture, and then I was able to boot it.

The fan is spinning at about 2350 RPM according to the psensor command,
but I don't know if that's the right speed or not because I had never
checked before.

But at least the fan is now spinning (before it wasn't spinning which I
can see because I popped the keyboard out).

Is there a way to "lubricate" the fan bearings?

Have you verified the fan is a maglev ? The documentation
here, says it doesn't use oil.

http://www.sunon.com/tw/products/pdf/maglev.pdf

It's as likely to be an issue with excessive friction
causes by dust and hair getting into the bearing
area, as being a need for the addition of oil.
And the device might not be designed for
easy maintenance.

You need some realistic mechanical drawings of the
fan, to understand how easy it will be to disassemble
and clean/repair. It may be easier to track down that
information, if an actual Sunon part number is on it.
If it is custom designed as an OEM item by Sunon,
then there might not be any documentation available
for it.

Paul

 

[Max Muller]

On Wed, 04 May 2016 04:02:46 -0400, Paul wrote:

Have you verified the fan is a maglev ? The documentation
here, says it doesn't use oil.

http://www.sunon.com/tw/products/pdf/maglev.pdf

Thank you for finding that nice 74-page Sunon Maglev fan reference.
It's interesting reading, But I need to find a cross reference
to figure out which fan it is that is the equivalent of the
fan in the Lenovo W510 Thinkpad FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981

It's as likely to be an issue with excessive friction
causes by dust and hair getting into the bearing
area, as being a need for the addition of oil.
And the device might not be designed for
easy maintenance.

This youtube video shows how a guy fixed the brushless fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewbMYAB0qwM

The guy took the fan apart, and merely cleaned and lubed
the shaft.

You need some realistic mechanical drawings of the
fan, to understand how easy it will be to disassemble
and clean/repair. It may be easier to track down that
information, if an actual Sunon part number is on it.
If it is custom designed as an OEM item by Sunon,
then there might not be any documentation available
for it.

It looks like a bunch of people have disassembled Sunon Maglev
fans, cleaned, lubricated, and put back together.

This guy literally drops the entire fan into motor oil:
https://youtu.be/vkLgqMPmmZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLgqMPmmZg

 

[Max Muller]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:21:10 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

The FRU number (field replaceable unit, IBM-speak for part) is the one you
want.

It seems the FRU contains both the heatsink and the fan itself,
where I can't imagine anything going wrong with the heatsink.

I may try to disassemble the fan and lubricate it as this guy does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lxvmay2tn0

What I like about this video is that he shows what a good and bad
fan spin rate is when you push it with your finger. Mine is more
like the bad fan than the good fan.

In the videeo, the guy uses alcohol to clean the metal shaft of
the fan and he also cleans the hole.

He says the lubricant only lasts a month, so it's important to
figure out what's a good lubricant.

 

[Paul]

Max Muller wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2016 04:02:46 -0400, Paul wrote:

Have you verified the fan is a maglev ? The documentation
here, says it doesn't use oil.

http://www.sunon.com/tw/products/pdf/maglev.pdf

Thank you for finding that nice 74-page Sunon Maglev fan reference.
It's interesting reading, But I need to find a cross reference
to figure out which fan it is that is the equivalent of the
fan in the Lenovo W510 Thinkpad FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981


It's as likely to be an issue with excessive friction
causes by dust and hair getting into the bearing
area, as being a need for the addition of oil.
And the device might not be designed for
easy maintenance.

This youtube video shows how a guy fixed the brushless fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewbMYAB0qwM

The guy took the fan apart, and merely cleaned and lubed
the shaft.

You need some realistic mechanical drawings of the
fan, to understand how easy it will be to disassemble
and clean/repair. It may be easier to track down that
information, if an actual Sunon part number is on it.
If it is custom designed as an OEM item by Sunon,
then there might not be any documentation available
for it.

It looks like a bunch of people have disassembled Sunon Maglev
fans, cleaned, lubricated, and put back together.

This guy literally drops the entire fan into motor oil:
https://youtu.be/vkLgqMPmmZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLgqMPmmZg

The first thing you notice in the video, is
the fan spindle moves easily, when he applied a
finger to it. The bearing is not locked. This
looks more like an electrical failure, like the
two transistor circuit that commutates the field
on the brushless DC motor isn't working. There are
also small ICs for driving the two windings, ICs
with four pins or so, and a similar comment would
apply to them. Being brushless, and using things
like a Hall probe for position sensing, there really
isn't a lot to go wrong electrically. The motor
drive uses saturated transistors for low heat
dissipation, so the chip driving the motor doesn't
need to get hot while it operates.

The brass item in the video, does appear to be
a bearing. At least to me it does. And not a
needle bearing either (as the Sunon PDF might
lead you to believe). It looks like a relatively
conventional bearing. Similar to the bearing design
I see on the cheapest hard drives I own here. (The
bearing has the same shape and appearance.)

On hard drives, the motor is FDB, the bearing is sealed,
two drops of oil circulate continuously inside the hub.
The motor can be constrained just on one end, or on
both ends. (Some WDC drives lock down the spindle on
both ends, even though the oil film is supposed to
be providing all the support when it is running.) By
floating on an oil film, and by having oil pumped continuously
over the bearing surface, the FDB motor is frictionless
and would run forever. Except when the oil evaporates
over time, or otherwise leaves the sealed area. And with
no significant oil reservoir, once it leaks, there is
no spare oil to be had. When Seagate evaluates the
operating status of the motors in the lab, they use
a gram balance, and note the difference in weight,
to figure out how much oil is left.

I think the Panaflo computer fan uses a similar idea.
Conventional bearings, but sealed to keep the oil in.
There are other kinds of computer fans, where the bearing
is not sealed. My favorite story, is the 40mm fan in a
disk enclosure - when the enclosure was acquired as
a brand new product, there was a "pool of oil" below
the fan. And within only one day of operation, the
fan was toast. That's what happens when the mechanical
tolerances are poor, and nobody gives a rats ass about
keeping the lubricant in place. There would be no point
immersing a fan like that in 5W30, because three weeks from
now, not a bit of the oil would still be in the bearing.
It would be sitting in a pool below the fan.

Paul

 

[Paul]

Paul wrote:

Max Muller wrote:
On Wed, 04 May 2016 04:02:46 -0400, Paul wrote:

Have you verified the fan is a maglev ? The documentation
here, says it doesn't use oil.

http://www.sunon.com/tw/products/pdf/maglev.pdf

Thank you for finding that nice 74-page Sunon Maglev fan reference.
It's interesting reading, But I need to find a cross reference
to figure out which fan it is that is the equivalent of the fan in the
Lenovo W510 Thinkpad FRUNO: 60Y5493 P/N: 60Y4981


It's as likely to be an issue with excessive friction
causes by dust and hair getting into the bearing
area, as being a need for the addition of oil.
And the device might not be designed for
easy maintenance.

This youtube video shows how a guy fixed the brushless fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewbMYAB0qwM

The guy took the fan apart, and merely cleaned and lubed
the shaft.

You need some realistic mechanical drawings of the
fan, to understand how easy it will be to disassemble
and clean/repair. It may be easier to track down that
information, if an actual Sunon part number is on it.
If it is custom designed as an OEM item by Sunon,
then there might not be any documentation available
for it.

It looks like a bunch of people have disassembled Sunon Maglev
fans, cleaned, lubricated, and put back together.

This guy literally drops the entire fan into motor oil:
https://youtu.be/vkLgqMPmmZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLgqMPmmZg

Here's another drawing of the fan.

http://www.comet.bg/files/custom/MagLev_scheme.jpg

( http://www.comet.bg/?cid=105&NewsId=961 )

There is no oil seal. There is a dust cap.
And while the fan is spinning, I would expect
a slight mechanical load on the bottom surface
of the spindle.

Paul

 

[Max Muller]

On Thu, 05 May 2016 02:32:38 -0400, Paul wrote:

The first thing you notice in the video, is
the fan spindle moves easily, when he applied a
finger to it. The bearing is not locked.

Thanks for looking at the video (a lot of people don't do that!).

So I appreciate your advice and assistance.

It was good to watch those two videos becasue I didn't know if
my fan, when spun manually, was normal or not.

Mine only spins about four or five turns when I give it a whirl
with my finger, so, I'm pretty sure the lubrication is gone.

Even though it's working at the moment, I expect it to stop working
soon, so, I plan on taking it apart and lubing it.

The one video said lube only lasts a month, which is too little
time for so much effort (disassembly and reassembly being a PITA).

So, I'm looking for what lubricant to use.

This article suggests sewing machine oil:
http://lifehacker.com/5761236/temporarily-fix-dying-laptop-fans-by-lubricating-them

The comments in that article suggest white lithium grease.

 

[Max Muller]

On Thu, 05 May 2016 02:49:09 -0400, Paul wrote:

There is no oil seal. There is a dust cap.
And while the fan is spinning, I would expect
a slight mechanical load on the bottom surface
of the spindle.

Thanks for the drawing. These fans are interesting as they're super simple.

I'm pretty sure my fan lost its lubrication, which means I pretty much
need to lube it manually, which means I need to disassemble more.

Nobody says you can permanently fix a dying fan, but, most say you can
get some more life out of it, or, at least use it while a new fan is on
order.

Plus, if I disassemble it, I might be able to find a part number for the
fan itself, since the heat sink is what's costing so much money ($75) and
nothing goes wrong with a heat sink.

Looking up the lubricants to use, I found this, which resurrects the age-old
question of using a thin oil such as sewing machine oil versus a thin grease
such as a dab of white lithium grease.
http://superuser.com/questions/1007968/what-lubricants-can-be-safely-added-to-a-laptop-fan

The comments in that article say that laptop fans are typically designed
to work without lubricant, which I find odd.

 

[SC Tom]

"Max Muller" <maxmuller@info.gathering> wrote in message
news:ngekb7$nh$1@news.mixmin.net...

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:21:10 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

The FRU number (field replaceable unit, IBM-speak for part) is the one
you
want.

It seems the FRU contains both the heatsink and the fan itself,
where I can't imagine anything going wrong with the heatsink.

I may try to disassemble the fan and lubricate it as this guy does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lxvmay2tn0

What I like about this video is that he shows what a good and bad
fan spin rate is when you push it with your finger. Mine is more
like the bad fan than the good fan.

In the videeo, the guy uses alcohol to clean the metal shaft of
the fan and he also cleans the hole.

He says the lubricant only lasts a month, so it's important to
figure out what's a good lubricant.

I had a similar problem with my Gateway laptop years ago. I can't tell from
the video, but on mine, the sticker on the side where the wires go in was
covering the other side of the hole, and on mine, an e-clip around the end
of the shaft. Also, there may be a nylon/Teflon washer on one or both ends
of the shaft. If there are, be sure to note where and what color goes where
(some have different color washers that IIRC denote thickness).

I've always used either alcohol or WD-40 and Q-tips for cleaning. Works
well, and the slightly abrasive quality of the swab cleans everything quite
well. I use a light-grade sewing machine oil for lubrication- it provides a
nice lubrication barrier without creating unwanted drag, or drying out and
getting "gummy".

If you have to remove the label, be sure to clean the metal surface well
with alcohol before sticking the label back in place (it also acts as a dust
cover).

I've used this method over the years and sometimes have gotten a couple more
years out of my fans before the brass bushings wore to point of creating
blade wobble. The one in my Gateway was still working when I retired it 3 or
4 years after cleaning/lubricating it. The only thing I did after that
initial rebuild was blow out the dust occasionally.
--

SC Tom