I broke my laptop

[Gareth Magennis]

I spilt some wine over my laptop keyboard, but stupidly left it running as I
didn't think it would do much harm, and I was a bit drunk at the time. Doh!


Something went "fizz" and I lost the screen, and got lots of furious beeping
going on.

I took it into work next day and dismantled it to see what was going on.
There was very little wine inside, and none that I could see on the
motherboard itself, but this is what I found:


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2728/imag0141ux.jpg


The connector is the one going to the screen, and as you can see it has got
very hot around the 2 pins on the far right. The melted blob next to C29
used to be a 6 pin IC.


I'd be interested to know how the wine might have caused so much damage, I'm
guessing the 6 pin device might be the power supply for the screen?

Cheers,


Gareth.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I'm sorry I don't have an answer (one does not normally think of wine as a
highly conductive fluid), but I'd like to comment about insurance.

When I bought my notebook computer a year ago, I splurged on an extended
warranty. The warranty covers loss and even accidental damage of the sort you
experienced.

 

[Leif Neland]

Gareth Magennis formulerede spřrgsmĺlet:

I spilt some wine over my laptop keyboard, but stupidly left it running as I
didn't think it would do much harm, and I was a bit drunk at the time. Doh!

Don't drink and surf

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:49:35 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

I spilt some wine over my laptop keyboard, but stupidly left it running as I
didn't think it would do much harm, and I was a bit drunk at the time. Doh!

Wine is somewhat conductive. Conductivity testing is used to
determine the Potassium concentration of the wine and therefore its
stability:
<http://winechek.com/webfiles/Stabilab%20GW%20article%20Dec%2010.pdf>
<http://www.mbhes.com/conductivity_measurement.htm>
1000 uSiemens/cm isn't very conductive. Compare with sea water, which
is about 50,000 uS/cm. In SI units, 1000 uS/cm would be

Get it really cold, and wine improves superconductors:
<http://io9.com/5731129/drunken-scientists-pour-alcohol-on-superconductors-and-make-an-incredible-discovery>

Something went "fizz" and I lost the screen, and got lots of furious beeping
going on.

This is a clue that you screwed up. However, it must be contageous.
Last week, I was marching to the bathroom in the middle of the night
and stepped on my Thinkpad T30, cracking the LCD screen.

I took it into work next day and dismantled it to see what was going on.
There was very little wine inside, and none that I could see on the
motherboard itself, but this is what I found:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2728/imag0141ux.jpg
The connector is the one going to the screen, and as you can see it has got
very hot around the 2 pins on the far right. The melted blob next to C29
used to be a 6 pin IC.

Make and model of laptop? Make and model of LCD panel? I have a few
schematics.

The 6 pin IC is probably a voltage regulator or pass FET for part of a
regulator. The LVDS interface on the panel is well protected and
probably not involved. Here's a typical LCD pinout:
<http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Lucky13ESP/LQ10PX22LVDSPinout.jpg>
Runs on +5VDC which could do that kind of high current heating damage.

I'd be interested to know how the wine might have caused so much damage, I'm
guessing the 6 pin device might be the power supply for the screen?

Probably, but then shorting the regulator would not cause the ribbon
cable connector to smoke. What happened to the ribbon cable? If
nothing, then the wine shorted the connector, which caused the
regulator to get hot.

Umm... did you remove the laptop battery after the spill?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:e2bje85glvjtlieedes0h6a2l61d8muk2t@4ax.com...

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:49:35 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

I spilt some wine over my laptop keyboard, but stupidly left it running as
I
didn't think it would do much harm, and I was a bit drunk at the time.
Doh!

Wine is somewhat conductive. Conductivity testing is used to
determine the Potassium concentration of the wine and therefore its
stability:
http://winechek.com/webfiles/Stabilab%20GW%20article%20Dec%2010.pdf
http://www.mbhes.com/conductivity_measurement.htm
1000 uSiemens/cm isn't very conductive. Compare with sea water, which
is about 50,000 uS/cm. In SI units, 1000 uS/cm would be

Get it really cold, and wine improves superconductors:
http://io9.com/5731129/drunken-scientists-pour-alcohol-on-superconductors-and-make-an-incredible-discovery

Something went "fizz" and I lost the screen, and got lots of furious
beeping
going on.

This is a clue that you screwed up. However, it must be contageous.
Last week, I was marching to the bathroom in the middle of the night
and stepped on my Thinkpad T30, cracking the LCD screen.

I took it into work next day and dismantled it to see what was going on.
There was very little wine inside, and none that I could see on the
motherboard itself, but this is what I found:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2728/imag0141ux.jpg
The connector is the one going to the screen, and as you can see it has
got
very hot around the 2 pins on the far right. The melted blob next to C29
used to be a 6 pin IC.

Make and model of laptop? Make and model of LCD panel? I have a few
schematics.

The 6 pin IC is probably a voltage regulator or pass FET for part of a
regulator. The LVDS interface on the panel is well protected and
probably not involved. Here's a typical LCD pinout:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Lucky13ESP/LQ10PX22LVDSPinout.jpg
Runs on +5VDC which could do that kind of high current heating damage.

I'd be interested to know how the wine might have caused so much damage,
I'm
guessing the 6 pin device might be the power supply for the screen?

Probably, but then shorting the regulator would not cause the ribbon
cable connector to smoke. What happened to the ribbon cable? If
nothing, then the wine shorted the connector, which caused the
regulator to get hot.

Umm... did you remove the laptop battery after the spill?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Hi Jeff,

Laptop is an Acer Aspire 5739. I found the service manual today but it has
no schematics.
(best thing about it is the internal speakers - it has a subwoofer "tube"
that actually makes the machine sound really good - Acer don't seem to have
these on their laptops any more)

After the spill, I mopped as much wine as possible from the keyboard, then
upended the laptop with the screen open so it was standing on its head in an
inverted V. The idea being to keep any liquid off the motherboard.
I took out the power adaptor and ran it on its battery, thinking that
keeping a supply of warm air going on might be a good idea.

I heard the fizzing whilst it was running on the battery, and recognised it
as something blowing up. I know those sounds, yuk.
I franctically tried to remove the battery but it was too late by then of
course.

I don't know if the LCD cable got damaged, its wrapped in a braid making a
round cable, not a ribbon, so is not visible.
I was wondering today if the overheating connector was unrelated to the
wine - this laptop regularly makes 10 hour long audio recordings in a hot
and sweaty club, the LCD remaining permanently on though dimmed to minimum.
It is also in daily use at home, and serves as my TV so it has had some use
over the 3 years or so of its life.

but yep, don't drink and surf!



Cheers,


Gareth.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 17:59:58 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

Laptop is an Acer Aspire 5739. I found the service manual today but it has
no schematics.

QUANTA ZK6. I couldn't find one in my collection. However, this
might help:
<http://www.im0575.com/acer-aspire-5739g-schematic-diagram.html>

(best thing about it is the internal speakers - it has a subwoofer "tube"
that actually makes the machine sound really good - Acer don't seem to have
these on their laptops any more)

I recently recycles a similar laptop. Won't boot reliable, won't
charge the battery reliably, won't run any OS reliably, etc. I gave
up, tore it apart for parts, and recycled what was left.

I took out the power adaptor and ran it on its battery, thinking that
keeping a supply of warm air going on might be a good idea.

Oops. That's what killed it.

I heard the fizzing whilst it was running on the battery, and recognised it
as something blowing up. I know those sounds, yuk.
I franctically tried to remove the battery but it was too late by then of
course.

The parts were getting hot even before you heard the fizzing sound.
That's the sound of boiling wine. It was probably too late by then.
If you had pulled the battery immediately, you might have had a
chance. Upending the laptop was probably a good idea, but I suspect
that all it did was spread the wine around.

Incidentally, the sugar in wine probably will make a nice mess of your
keyboard. Wash, rinse, blow dry, air dry, wait, and then try it.

I don't know if the LCD cable got damaged, its wrapped in a braid making a
round cable, not a ribbon, so is not visible.

Then, what's the ribbon connector on the MB that got fried? It's not
the LCD cable. Keyboard? Mouse pad? I can't tell from the photo.

I was wondering today if the overheating connector was unrelated to the
wine - this laptop regularly makes 10 hour long audio recordings in a hot
and sweaty club, the LCD remaining permanently on though dimmed to minimum.
It is also in daily use at home, and serves as my TV so it has had some use
over the 3 years or so of its life.

I run two laptops 24x7 as weather stations on mount tops. No problems
with melting anything.

but yep, don't drink and surf!

Or, get a keyboard cover protector:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=acer+5739+keyboard+cover&_sacat=0&_odkw=acer+5739+keyboard+cover&_osacat=0&_from=R40>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[N_Cook]

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:ragGs.986549$yH4.689205@fx03.am4...

I spilt some wine over my laptop keyboard, but stupidly left it running as
I
didn't think it would do much harm, and I was a bit drunk at the time.
Doh!


Something went "fizz" and I lost the screen, and got lots of furious
beeping
going on.

I took it into work next day and dismantled it to see what was going on.
There was very little wine inside, and none that I could see on the
motherboard itself, but this is what I found:


http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2728/imag0141ux.jpg


The connector is the one going to the screen, and as you can see it has
got
very hot around the 2 pins on the far right. The melted blob next to C29
used to be a 6 pin IC.


I'd be interested to know how the wine might have caused so much damage,
I'm
guessing the 6 pin device might be the power supply for the screen?

Cheers,


Gareth.

I would guess its one of those high current pass powerfets in a 6 pin
package, rather than IC as such, are 2 pairs of the pads connected?

 

[Gareth Magennis]

hi Jeff,

hope this makes things clearer than my description!

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2610/imag0147pk.jpg

Do you think it is worth me trying to fix this? I've written it off at the
moment.

Both plug and socket seem quite badly damaged, but might still work or I
could possibly hard wire the power connections.
If I can find out what that melted device is I can replace it if I can find
one to buy.
Do you think there will be further damage? I can buy another keyboard cheap
enough on FleaBay.


I ordered another laptop yesterday, but this one did used to sound excellent
as a TV / mini hi-fi, and was especially useful for editing the 10 hour
recordings without headphones or external speakers.




Thanks,

Gareth.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

I'm still rather bemused that a bit of wine could short out a 5v or so line
and cause that amount of current to flow.

Blimey.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:50:18 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

hope this makes things clearer than my description!
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2610/imag0147pk.jpg

That's the video connector. I can't tell if there's more damage until
you remove the motherboard.

Do you think it is worth me trying to fix this? I've written it off at the
moment.

That depends on how much time you have. I found a source for a
schematic so that should help identify the parts. However, replacing
the video connector and several parts doesn't seem like much fun. A
new motherboard would be easier and probably more productive. There
are two on eBay for $184 and $199. Seems too high a price. Try other
sources.

Both plug and socket seem quite badly damaged, but might still work or I
could possibly hard wire the power connections.

Also the plug? Well, at least that cable can be easily replaced:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/150960265547>
However, $28 is too much.

I think the prices are adding up to more than what the laptop is
worth.

If I can find out what that melted device is I can replace it if I can find
one to buy.

Replacing the MB is about the only way you can be sure that something
else isn't blown.

Do you think there will be further damage?

Yes. Worse, it will probably not be easily visible. Offhand, I would
guess(tm) that the 12V or 19V line ended up on the 5V line. Not a
good thing for the rest of the circuitry.

I can buy another keyboard cheap
enough on FleaBay.

Yep. However, it's the other parts that are going to cost. At this
point, the price of repair and possibility of additional damage is too
high for an economical repair. Pull out the hard disk, LCD panel,
CD/DVD, CPU, RAM, wireless, and whatever else looks useful, and
recycle the rest. Also, save the screws. They're quite handy as many
laptops tend to lose their bottom screws from vibration.

I ordered another laptop yesterday, but this one did used to sound excellent
as a TV / mini hi-fi, and was especially useful for editing the 10 hour
recordings without headphones or external speakers.

I use an external USB sound device. I have several ranging from
cheapo CM108 based dongles, to a Behringer USB something that does 24
bits and 96KHz. The internal sound chips are all too noisy. All my
speakers are external as none of my laptops have decent speakers. I
also stream wireless audio to the hi-fi using A2DP Bluetooth and
Wi-Fi.
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855995461>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 06 Jan 13 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article e2bje85glvjtlieedes0h6a2l61d8muk2t@4ax.com
<jeffl@cruzio.com> (Jeff Liebermann) wrote:

Last week, I was marching to the bathroom in the middle of the night
and stepped on my Thinkpad T30, cracking the LCD screen.

And I have here in PY a T30 which died one year ago because a bad
(flexing) mobo. The best notebook, I ever owned. So I didn`t burried it


It has an exellent 1440x1050 SXGA+ w/o any problems, P4 2GHz, 2GB RAM...
2 docking stations (mini and big), tons of spare parts, 5(?) HDD cages,
5 CMOS-Batteries, nothing broken but dents and scratches, keyboard
(Portugies with some stickers to convert it to German), complete
original WinXP Recovery CD set incl. multilanguage... IBM Service
manuals, some schematics...

Also an T22 with boot problems and unstable display control (dead
lamps?)

If you will pay the freight cost, I`ll try to ship it to you.
Maybe you can transplant some parts to revieve one of the both T30.



Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

--
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung!
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 06 Jan 2013 15:22:00 -0400, all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger)
wrote:

And I have here in PY a T30 which died one year ago because a bad
(flexing) mobo. The best notebook, I ever owned. So I didn`t burried it

I agree. It's a good machine. I fixed the damage last week with a
$30 eBay replacement used LCD. However, when I powered it up, the
backlighting didn't work. The LCD inverter wasn't putting out any
voltage, so I ordered a spare for $5. However, that didn't fix the
backlighting. The CCFL tube lit up fine running on external power, so
that wasn't the problem. After 4 hrs of futile tinkering, I
discovered that stomping on the case had also caused the lid switch to
stick in the closed position, which turned off the backlighting. Argh.
The T30 is now in a box awaiting shipment to a friend in Portland OR.

It has an exellent 1440x1050 SXGA+ w/o any problems, P4 2GHz, 2GB RAM...
2 docking stations (mini and big), tons of spare parts, 5(?) HDD cages,
5 CMOS-Batteries, nothing broken but dents and scratches, keyboard
(Portugies with some stickers to convert it to German), complete
original WinXP Recovery CD set incl. multilanguage... IBM Service
manuals, some schematics...

Nice. This one has the lesser 1024x768 LCD. I cramed in 3GB of RAM
so it runs Ubuntu 12.04 32 bit rather well.

Also an T22 with boot problems and unstable display control (dead
lamps?)

What color are the lamps? If pink, it's probably a dying lamp. If
white or just dim, the LCD inverter. If flickering, it might be the
LCD inverter, or arcing contacts at the ends of the CCFL lamp. At
$5/ea for the inverters, it's easier to replace than to diagnose.
Also, an external LCD inverter will light up the CCFL tube so you can
tell which is the problem.
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/270945970265>

If you will pay the freight cost, I`ll try to ship it to you.

No thanks. The T30 is already fixed.

Maybe you can transplant some parts to revieve one of the both T30.

The intermittent motherboard is caused by the BGA chips coming
unsoldered from the MB. It can be fixed crudely with a hot air SMT
desoldering station, or more correctly with a BGA reballing kit.
There are numerous online vendors that will do it for you if you
remove the motherboard and put it back together. For example:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/360528752666>

Or, you can take your chances with a parts machine:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/290827422014>
4 machines for $130 looks tempting. However, I'm into faster machines
and those are too old to resell to customers. Those models are also
in the class of machines with the defective Nvidia chips.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:g0ije8lrbo7fjg7rhr0n6v9h7gea2d4v2u@4ax.com...

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 18:50:18 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

hope this makes things clearer than my description!
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2610/imag0147pk.jpg

That's the video connector. I can't tell if there's more damage until
you remove the motherboard.

Do you think it is worth me trying to fix this? I've written it off at
the
moment.

That depends on how much time you have. I found a source for a
schematic so that should help identify the parts. However, replacing
the video connector and several parts doesn't seem like much fun. A
new motherboard would be easier and probably more productive. There
are two on eBay for $184 and $199. Seems too high a price. Try other
sources.

Both plug and socket seem quite badly damaged, but might still work or I
could possibly hard wire the power connections.

Also the plug? Well, at least that cable can be easily replaced:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150960265547
However, $28 is too much.

I think the prices are adding up to more than what the laptop is
worth.

If I can find out what that melted device is I can replace it if I can
find
one to buy.

Replacing the MB is about the only way you can be sure that something
else isn't blown.

Do you think there will be further damage?

Yes. Worse, it will probably not be easily visible. Offhand, I would
guess(tm) that the 12V or 19V line ended up on the 5V line. Not a
good thing for the rest of the circuitry.

I can buy another keyboard cheap
enough on FleaBay.

Yep. However, it's the other parts that are going to cost. At this
point, the price of repair and possibility of additional damage is too
high for an economical repair. Pull out the hard disk, LCD panel,
CD/DVD, CPU, RAM, wireless, and whatever else looks useful, and
recycle the rest. Also, save the screws. They're quite handy as many
laptops tend to lose their bottom screws from vibration.

I ordered another laptop yesterday, but this one did used to sound
excellent
as a TV / mini hi-fi, and was especially useful for editing the 10 hour
recordings without headphones or external speakers.

I use an external USB sound device. I have several ranging from
cheapo CM108 based dongles, to a Behringer USB something that does 24
bits and 96KHz. The internal sound chips are all too noisy. All my
speakers are external as none of my laptops have decent speakers. I
also stream wireless audio to the hi-fi using A2DP Bluetooth and
Wi-Fi.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855995461

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

OK, so no I'm not going to try and mend this one.
The hard drive I need for archiving, and I've a spare charger now for the
Acer I've just ordered as a replacement.
And all the other bits you mentioned.


Might keep my eye out for more of these though, but without BSOD symptoms.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acer-Aspire-5739G-654G50Bn-15-6-500-GB-Intel-Core-2-Duo-2-1-GHz-4-GB-FAULTY-/261151723041?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item3ccddb0e21


btw, I use an external USB 24/96 Tascam soundcard, and would never use
anything internal for anything remotely serious on any laptop other than for
monitoring or use at home.

Thanks for all your help, its been very educational.


Gareth.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I'm still rather bemused that a bit of wine could short out
a 5V or so line and cause that amount of current to flow.

It might not have. It might have caused a chip to misbehave, which in turned
pulled the excessive current.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kccp7e$7i6$1@dont-email.me...

I'm still rather bemused that a bit of wine could short out
a 5V or so line and cause that amount of current to flow.

It might not have. It might have caused a chip to misbehave, which in
turned pulled the excessive current.

Hmm, this is interesting.

I have been assuming that the connector in the photos has a whole load of
data pins on the left hand side, and 2 heavier duty pins on the right
carrying the power supply. It looks to me that these two power supply pins
have been shorted, resulting in localised heating to the point of partially
melting the connectors. I have also assumed that this huge increase in
current is what killed the melted device that was supplying that current.

I can't otherwise see a scenario whereby a faulty component could have
forced such a huge current between these two pins.


Gareth.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I can't otherwise see a scenario whereby a faulty component
could have forced such a huge current between these two pins.

The "wrong" voltage on a driver chip's input can push its output into
saturation -- and goombye chip.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

or rather the connectors use the outer 2 pairs of 2 pins connected in
parallel to supply power to the LCD.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kccqbt$etd$1@dont-email.me...

I can't otherwise see a scenario whereby a faulty component
could have forced such a huge current between these two pins.

The "wrong" voltage on a driver chip's input can push its output into
saturation -- and goombye chip.

True, but something has melted the connectors.

These go to the LCD which is practically physically disconnected from the
rest of the laptop and any spilt wine, so an excessive current draw from the
LCD seems very unlikely.


Gareth.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Gareth Magennis" <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:XcmGs.988226$vW7.313694@fx19.am4...

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kccqbt$etd$1@dont-email.me...
I can't otherwise see a scenario whereby a faulty component
could have forced such a huge current between these two pins.

The "wrong" voltage on a driver chip's input can push its output into
saturation -- and goombye chip.


True, but something has melted the connectors.

These go to the LCD which is practically physically disconnected from the
rest of the laptop and any spilt wine, so an excessive current draw from
the LCD seems very unlikely.


Gareth.

Unless the LCD was destroyed by excessive voltages ...............



Gareth.

 

[Archon]

On 1/6/2013 2:11 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:

I'm still rather bemused that a bit of wine could short out a 5v or so line
and cause that amount of current to flow.

Blimey.


The cheap shit I drink doubles as battery acid........

JC