HP-400D voltmeter

P

Peter E. Orban

Guest
Hi Everyone,

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having cleaned
most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set in a
basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and the
power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always past its
maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after the
attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter is
showing.
What could be the cause of the oscillation? Bad tubes?
I am also thinking about bad ground connections, as if (I have to check
this) grounds are connected to solder lugs that are riveted to the
frame. There could be some corrosion at those rivets.

Thanks, Peter
--
Peter E. Orban
National Research Council of Canada
e-mail: peter.orban@nrc.ca
 
Check all the capacitors for their ESR specs, and for their values to start
with. In these old units, it is very normally to have many bad caps. Some of
the resistors can also be off value from age.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Peter E. Orban" <peter.orban@nrc.ca> wrote in message
news:409FCF72.7E76F184@nrc.ca...
Hi Everyone,

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having cleaned
most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set in a
basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and the
power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always past its
maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after the
attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter is
showing.
What could be the cause of the oscillation? Bad tubes?
I am also thinking about bad ground connections, as if (I have to check
this) grounds are connected to solder lugs that are riveted to the
frame. There could be some corrosion at those rivets.

Thanks, Peter
--
Peter E. Orban
National Research Council of Canada
e-mail: peter.orban@nrc.ca
 
Peter,

I'd start by cleaning all of the tube pins, as they are likely to have
corrosion on them from sitting all these years. Clean the range
selector switch too. I suggest leaving the tube pins dry (no contact
treatment) after cleaning. Sometimes 400 grit (more or less) sandpaper
is the best way to clean tube pins.

Regards,
Tim Schwartz
Bristol Electronics


"Peter E. Orban" wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having cleaned
most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set in a
basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and the
power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always past its
maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after the
attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter is
showing.
What could be the cause of the oscillation? Bad tubes?
I am also thinking about bad ground connections, as if (I have to check
this) grounds are connected to solder lugs that are riveted to the
frame. There could be some corrosion at those rivets.

Thanks, Peter
--
Peter E. Orban
National Research Council of Canada
e-mail: peter.orban@nrc.ca
Click to expand...
 
"Tim Schwartz" bravely wrote to "All" (11 May 04 12:11:00)
--- on the heady topic of "Re: HP-400D voltmeter"

Tim, not to name a brand but I've found the s.brite green plastic
scouring pads are great for cleaning tube pins. Just push the tube
pins into the pad a few times (one at a time) and it gets cleaned of
oxide without removing too much of the gold, silver, or whatever
contact enhancing metal coating is used.


TS> From: Tim Schwartz <toschwartz@worldnet.att.net>
TS> Peter,

TS> I'd start by cleaning all of the tube pins, as they are likely to
TS> have corrosion on them from sitting all these years. Clean the range
TS> selector switch too. I suggest leaving the tube pins dry (no contact
TS> treatment) after cleaning. Sometimes 400 grit (more or less)
TS> sandpaper is the best way to clean tube pins.

TS> Regards,
TS> Tim Schwartz
TS> Bristol Electronics


TS> "Peter E. Orban" wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having cleaned
most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set in a
basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and the
power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always past its
maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after the
attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter is
showing.
What could be the cause of the oscillation? Bad tubes?
I am also thinking about bad ground connections, as if (I have to check
this) grounds are connected to solder lugs that are riveted to the
frame. There could be some corrosion at those rivets.

Thanks, Peter
--
Peter E. Orban
National Research Council of Canada
e-mail: peter.orban@nrc.ca
Click to expand...
.... New computer? But I like my vacuum tubes... They keep me warm.
 
On Mon, 10 May 2004 14:52:34 -0400 "Peter E. Orban"
<peter.orban@nrc.ca> wrote:

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having cleaned
most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set in a
basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and the
power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always past its
maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after the
attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter is
showing.
Click to expand...
The most common problem with these is the coupling caps between
stages. Each stage uses a molded case paper capacitor to couple the
signal from the plate of the previous stage to the grid of the next.
These caps are almost all leaky by now and this throws the grid bias
way off.

In the 400D you will find 4 of those caps. One of them is in the power
supply and the other three are for interstage coupling. The power
supply one isn't a problem, but the other 3 should just be replaced.
IIRC, I could hook a DC uAmmeter between the grid end of each cap and
chassis and measure the leakage of each one. The resistors in the grid
circuit are high enough that it doesn't take much leakage to make for
several volts of grid bias change.

Getting rid of the leakage will pull down the grid voltages and reduce
the plate currents, taking a big load off the tubes and making
everything in there run quite a bit cooler, too.

I replaced mine (all 4) with nice axial lead mylar caps maybe 15 years
ago. It made a world of difference. I found a couple of other
problems, too, but I had to get it close before I could even see those
problems.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------
 
Asimov,

I'd never thought of using a S-bright for tube pins. It's an
interesting idea, I'll give it a try.

Regards,
Tim Schwartz
Bristol Electronics


Asimov wrote:
"Tim Schwartz" bravely wrote to "All" (11 May 04 12:11:00)
--- on the heady topic of "Re: HP-400D voltmeter"

Tim, not to name a brand but I've found the s.brite green plastic
scouring pads are great for cleaning tube pins. Just push the tube
pins into the pad a few times (one at a time) and it gets cleaned of
oxide without removing too much of the gold, silver, or whatever
contact enhancing metal coating is used.

TS> From: Tim Schwartz <toschwartz@worldnet.att.net
TS> Peter,

TS> I'd start by cleaning all of the tube pins, as they are likely to
TS> have corrosion on them from sitting all these years. Clean the range
TS> selector switch too. I suggest leaving the tube pins dry (no contact
TS> treatment) after cleaning. Sometimes 400 grit (more or less)
TS> sandpaper is the best way to clean tube pins.

TS> Regards,
TS> Tim Schwartz
TS> Bristol Electronics

TS> "Peter E. Orban" wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having cleaned
most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set in a
basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and the
power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always past its
maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after the
attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter is
showing.
What could be the cause of the oscillation? Bad tubes?
I am also thinking about bad ground connections, as if (I have to check
this) grounds are connected to solder lugs that are riveted to the
frame. There could be some corrosion at those rivets.

Thanks, Peter
--
Peter E. Orban
National Research Council of Canada
e-mail: peter.orban@nrc.ca

... New computer? But I like my vacuum tubes... They keep me warm.
Click to expand...
 
"Asimov" <Asimov@-removethis-bbs.juxtaposition.dynip.com> wrote in
news:MSGID_1=3a167=2f133.0_40a11a9e@fidonet.org:

"Tim Schwartz" bravely wrote to "All" (11 May 04 12:11:00)
--- on the heady topic of "Re: HP-400D voltmeter"

Tim, not to name a brand but I've found the s.brite green plastic
scouring pads are great for cleaning tube pins. Just push the tube
pins into the pad a few times (one at a time) and it gets cleaned of
oxide without removing too much of the gold, silver, or whatever
contact enhancing metal coating is used.


TS> From: Tim Schwartz <toschwartz@worldnet.att.net
TS> Peter,

TS> I'd start by cleaning all of the tube pins, as they are likely to
TS> have corrosion on them from sitting all these years. Clean the
range TS> selector switch too. I suggest leaving the tube pins dry
(no contact TS> treatment) after cleaning. Sometimes 400 grit (more
or less) TS> sandpaper is the best way to clean tube pins.

TS> Regards,
TS> Tim Schwartz
TS> Bristol Electronics


TS> "Peter E. Orban" wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I picked up an old HP-400D voltmeter on a garage sale. Having
cleaned most of the grime away from the equipment (it must have set
in a basement for years) I plugged it in. The tubes all light up and
the power supply voltage is around spec, but the meter moves always
past its maximum in every range. The second amplifier chain, after
the attenuator, is oscillating at about 1MHz, that is what the meter
is showing.
What could be the cause of the oscillation? Bad tubes?
I am also thinking about bad ground connections, as if (I have to
check this) grounds are connected to solder lugs that are riveted to
the frame. There could be some corrosion at those rivets.
Click to expand...
Only if they were loose.



Use an eraser,the kind for removing ink. TEK used to have a tube-pin
cleaning tool made from rubber-abrasive rod like the 'bullets' used for
Dremel Moto-Tools,with a small hole in one end.You push it onto the tube
pin,and rotate the abrasive rod.

You could also have bad electrolytics in the PS or decoupling.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
 
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