How to take "bounce" out of switch ??

T

Thomas

Guest
I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.
 
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:23:00 -0500, "Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.
Click to expand...
---
Can you tell us more about the circuit?

What is the voltage across the switch?

How much current does it switch?

How is it used in the circuit? (can you post a schematic?)

Is it a magnetic switch or a relay of some sort?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
Its just a basic magnetic switch detecting when I have the lid closed.
Operates on 5V DC. Due to the nature of the beast, it is not feasable to
change the existing switch. I need to take the bounce out. I am currently
using the switch to detect when the lid is open and when it is, a small DC
relay is used to turn some lights on. The lid and/or switch can not be
changed. Right now, potholes, speedbumps and the occasional varmit ;) cause
the magnetic switch to detect the opening. I was thinking of a small
circuit to put between the switch and realy to provide a time constant
before the relay is pulled. Maybe something with a pot to vary the time from
1 sec down. Would a one shot 555 work?

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:6l9r611ra9k4jm0frtm84odk73mh85k75v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:23:00 -0500, "Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com
wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or
rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible
so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.

---
Can you tell us more about the circuit?

What is the voltage across the switch?

How much current does it switch?

How is it used in the circuit? (can you post a schematic?)

Is it a magnetic switch or a relay of some sort?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
Click to expand...
 
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.
Click to expand...
The simplest circuit requires adding just one resistor and capacitor,
as shown here:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MagSwitchDebounce.gif

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Thanks for the input. Would the circuit vary if 12V instead of 5V would be
used? Also, is that a 22 Ohm resistor in series with the pot? And again, I
really appreciate the help!

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:6hvr611fh3cdq404c943rvfjmf9n9krkaj@4ax.com...
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or
rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible
so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.


The simplest circuit requires adding just one resistor and capacitor,
as shown here:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MagSwitchDebounce.gif

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
Click to expand...
 
Also Terry, do you have the formula for me to calculate on the resistor /
cap compos to get the time variance?

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:6hvr611fh3cdq404c943rvfjmf9n9krkaj@4ax.com...
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or
rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible
so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.


The simplest circuit requires adding just one resistor and capacitor,
as shown here:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MagSwitchDebounce.gif

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
Click to expand...
 
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:U6OdnUxkitoXsfPfRVn-ig@fidnet.com...
Thanks for the input. Would the circuit vary if 12V instead of 5V would
be
used? Also, is that a 22 Ohm resistor in series with the pot? And again, I
really appreciate the help!
Click to expand...
It's there in case the pot is turned to one extreme thus putting the power
supply directly
across the capacitor. The time constant is T=RC and if 12 volts is applied,
be sure you
use a 16 volt capacitor.
 
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the input. Would the circuit vary if 12V instead of 5V would be
used? Also, is that a 22 Ohm resistor in series with the pot? And again, I
really appreciate the help!

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:6hvr611fh3cdq404c943rvfjmf9n9krkaj@4ax.com...
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or
rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible
so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.


The simplest circuit requires adding just one resistor and capacitor,
as shown here:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MagSwitchDebounce.gif
Click to expand...
If everything was in proportion, then no, the circuit could be the
same. IOW, if the pull-in voltage of the 12V relay was (12/5)*4 =
9.6V, and the its DC resistance was (12/5)*400 = 960 ohms, then the
timing would follow a similar curve.

Yes, it is a 22 ohm resistor. With the pot at its maximum, the total
resistance in series with the big cap is therefore 90 ohms.

Dealing with your other post's query, a formula (which would be
complex, as we're dealing with exponential voltage over time) would be
of little practical value to you. As I said, your relay will not have
the specs I've assumed.

There are also other factors I didn't raise earlier, which will also
have a bearing on the practical results, and reinforce my suggestion
to use trial and error (assuming you want to use this ultra-simple
circuit). In practice I suspect the lid won't be as co-operative as in
my simplistic assumptions. IOW, it won't falsely open for 0.1 - 1
second and then stay closed again for a second or so before opening
again (giving the 4700uF capacitor plenty of time to discharge through
the relay's coil). It will probably be opening and closing to some
extent constantly - almost vibrating - with some jumps higher and
therefore lasting longer than others. That sort of behaviour presents
quite a complex signal at the input to the series resistor.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.


The simplest circuit requires adding just one resistor and capacitor,
as shown here:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MagSwitchDebounce.gif
Click to expand...
John Homppi emailed me pointing out a careless mistake in my drawing:
I had the cap shorted to ground! Thanks, John, well-spotted. Now
corrected.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:49:15 -0500, Thomas wrote:

Its just a basic magnetic switch detecting when I have the lid closed.
Operates on 5V DC. Due to the nature of the beast, it is not feasable to
change the existing switch. I need to take the bounce out. I am currently
using the switch to detect when the lid is open and when it is, a small DC
relay is used to turn some lights on. The lid and/or switch can not be
changed. Right now, potholes, speedbumps and the occasional varmit ;) cause
the magnetic switch to detect the opening. I was thinking of a small
circuit to put between the switch and realy to provide a time constant
before the relay is pulled. Maybe something with a pot to vary the time from
1 sec down. Would a one shot 555 work?
Click to expand...
First, please don't use the term "bounce" for what is merely false
triggering. Switch bounce is an entirely different thing - it's very
fast spikes caused by the switch contacts themselves bouncing when
they crash together. All you have is a switch that opens when you
whack it.

So, all you need is a time delay on "open" - a 555 and a little logic
should be fine. And with a decent capacitor, you shouldn't even need
a pot - just get values from the chart in the data sheet.

Good Luck!
Rich




"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:6l9r611ra9k4jm0frtm84odk73mh85k75v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:23:00 -0500, "Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com
wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or
rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible
so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.

---
Can you tell us more about the circuit?

What is the voltage across the switch?

How much current does it switch?

How is it used in the circuit? (can you post a schematic?)

Is it a magnetic switch or a relay of some sort?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
Click to expand...
 
I am using a 4700uF cap with a 20 Ohm resistor and it works GREAT. I get
about a 1.5 second delay before the coil discharges. I really appreciate
it!

Many thanks!!!!

"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:ujrs61hml6gri0o3db9r6hoo4gmkdbspcu@4ax.com...
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump or
rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing impossible
so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.


The simplest circuit requires adding just one resistor and capacitor,
as shown here:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/MagSwitchDebounce.gif

John Homppi emailed me pointing out a careless mistake in my drawing:
I had the cap shorted to ground! Thanks, John, well-spotted. Now
corrected.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
Click to expand...
 
"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I am using a 4700uF cap with a 20 Ohm resistor and it works GREAT. I get
about a 1.5 second delay before the coil discharges. I really appreciate
it!

Many thanks!!!!
Click to expand...
Pleased to hear it.

Coming from me, always keen to get electronics into any gadget, this
is an odd observation - but I'm curious why you didn't go for some
simpler solution? How about a simple catch that can be slipped off
when you open the lid?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I am using a 4700uF cap with a 20 Ohm resistor and it works GREAT. I get
about a 1.5 second delay before the coil discharges. I really appreciate
it!

Many thanks!!!!

Pleased to hear it.

Coming from me, always keen to get electronics into any gadget, this
is an odd observation - but I'm curious why you didn't go for some
simpler solution? How about a simple catch that can be slipped off
when you open the lid?
Click to expand...
====================

I could not alter the lid/setup in any way. It had to free to open. The
circuit controls a safety feature in the vehicle that monitors 5 things and
shuts the engine off when one "goes off". Delaying magnetic switch works
great now, considering these really fine roads we have around here. On
another problem, how could I delay the engaging of a relay for about a sec?

Many thanks!!!
Click to expand...
====================

It's best to keep your posts in the original thread, not via email.

I don't understand your follow-up question. The circuit I posted for
you already delays the action of the relay, for a time determined by
the capacitor and the resistance, due to the capacitor charging up
from zero to the pull-in voltage. And then, when the lid closes, there
will be a shorter delay before the relay contacts open again, while
the capacitor discharges via the relay coil until its voltage is below
the (lower) drop-out level.

I was also surprised by your earlier post in which you said the
discharge delay was as long as 1.5 s. Please draw your circuit and
state the voltage supply, measured pull-in and drop-out voltages, and
the resistance of the disconnected relay.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
You are correct. I don't know what I was thinking. I really appreciated the
help.


"Terry Pinnell" <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1981715ndk5tsgcr7vgrb1mc1erfas2mm0@4ax.com...
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

"Thomas" <cordless89@hotmail.com> wrote:

I am using a 4700uF cap with a 20 Ohm resistor and it works GREAT. I get
about a 1.5 second delay before the coil discharges. I really appreciate
it!

Many thanks!!!!

Pleased to hear it.

Coming from me, always keen to get electronics into any gadget, this
is an odd observation - but I'm curious why you didn't go for some
simpler solution? How about a simple catch that can be slipped off
when you open the lid?

====================

I could not alter the lid/setup in any way. It had to free to open. The
circuit controls a safety feature in the vehicle that monitors 5 things
and
shuts the engine off when one "goes off". Delaying magnetic switch works
great now, considering these really fine roads we have around here. On
another problem, how could I delay the engaging of a relay for about a
sec?

Many thanks!!!

====================

It's best to keep your posts in the original thread, not via email.

I don't understand your follow-up question. The circuit I posted for
you already delays the action of the relay, for a time determined by
the capacitor and the resistance, due to the capacitor charging up
from zero to the pull-in voltage. And then, when the lid closes, there
will be a shorter delay before the relay contacts open again, while
the capacitor discharges via the relay coil until its voltage is below
the (lower) drop-out level.

I was also surprised by your earlier post in which you said the
discharge delay was as long as 1.5 s. Please draw your circuit and
state the voltage supply, measured pull-in and drop-out voltages, and
the resistance of the disconnected relay.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
Click to expand...
 
williamdob@hotmail.com wrote:

Thomas schreef:
I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump
or rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing
impossible so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.

If you draw your problem on paper and scan it to my e-mail ( 100 dpi
in JPG)

maybe I can help you by sending you a other scan with the solution to
your
problem.


to your service,

williamdob@hotmail.com
Click to expand...
Did you not notice that this was sorted fairly conclusively a couple
of days after Thomas posted his original enquiry (12 days ago)?


--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
There is nothing ! How does it know what a "real" bump is ?!!
Your circuit needs to be intellegent enuf to reject a false bump .

You need a "mass" and spring and a pot to measure the travel and
something to integrate all this .

what you are doin is not simple !
 
Thomas schreef:
I have a small magnetic switch that is triggering when I hit a bump
or rough
spot in the road. Moving the switch or changing it is nearing
impossible so
I need to take out the "false" triggers. Need something simple and
reliable.
I am thinking 1 second or less should do it... Any and all help is
appreciated.
Click to expand...
If you draw your problem on paper and scan it to my e-mail ( 100 dpi
in JPG)

maybe I can help you by sending you a other scan with the solution to
your
problem.


to your service,

williamdob@hotmail.com
 
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