How to overcome response delay of less than 1 second.

[micky]

I need a real simple method to solve this problem.

How to extend the transmission time of a wireless doorbell transmitter,
from 1/2 second to 1 second.

My house was built with a doorbell in the front hall. Because I always
listen to the radio or tv, I could not hear the bell in the basement or
the second floor. I put a second bell in the basement, and for the
second floor, I put the push-button transmitter for a third (wireless)
bell (buzzer) next to the doorbell transformer on the basement ceiling.

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch so
it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the rectified
output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone presses the
outside doorbell button.

If they hold the button for about a second or more, the buzzer in the
2nd floor hall buzzes, and if I'm on the second floor, I always hear it.

If they let go more quickly, it doesn't buzz.

Maybe I could use the 9 to 12 volts pulsating DC that goes to the
transmitter to charge a capacitor, which would then power the
transmitter for another second, to make sure the buzzer upstairs buzzes.
Any chance that would work? If not, some other simple idea?

Is there a slow release front-door doorbell button?


Last Thursday FEDEX "delivered" an envelope from a bank, but just left
it on the stoop, tilted so anyone on the public sidewalk could see its
bright red and blue colors and take it. No money inside, but still. I
didn't know it was coming and wouldn't know it was missing. I've
talked to 2 people at FEDEX and neither will say if Fedex has a position
on putting their envelopes in my door slot. The USPS doesn't object
to non-mail being put in mail slots.

I also didn't hear the doorbell, but I don't know if he pushed the
button quickly or not at all.

A few months ago I was sitting in the kitchen, 10 feet from the door and
the doorbell, (and I think it was Fedex) and he neither rang the bell
(the first floor bell is instantaneous) or knocked louder than a little
child might knock. That time the package was too big for the slot, and
he left it and I don't object to that part.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 11 May 2014 23:10:51 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch so
it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the rectified
output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone presses the
outside doorbell button.

Keying the power to the transmitter might have a side effect. My
guess is that the processor in the transmitter is taking its time
getting itself initialized and making sure all the internal
housekeeping is done before allowing it to belch RF. Such processors
also have a feature that will delay initial transmission so that the
transmitter will not spew junk when powered up. You may also be
charging a few capacitors on power up. I suggest you use it in the
manner originally specified by the manufacturer. Apply the power
continuously, probably with a battery, and key the pushbutton switch
with a relay.

Even so, you might have a slight delay caused by the time necessary to
decode the (rolling code) data. I once built a remote bird trap
release using various wireless remote controls. Timing had to be
quick and perfect to avoid injuring the bird.

I started with a wireless doorbell, which had a built in 1-2 second
delay. A spectrum analyzer showed me that the RF was appearing
instantly. A scope showed that the delay was built into the logic and
was not going to disappear. Next, I tried two different remote
controls purchased on eBay. They were somewhat better, but still had
about a 500 msec delay. I finally had to make my own two tone analog
encoder and decoder, in order to get 100-150 msec response time.

If this is the type of hardware you're using, I think the best bet
would be to insert a one-shot circuit (or relay delay if you want to
be crude), that produces a 2-3 second output pulse, for a very short
input pulse from the push button. That will insure that any length
depression of the pushbutton will produce at least a 2-3 second
output.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[N_Cook]

On 12/05/2014 04:10, micky wrote:

I need a real simple method to solve this problem.

How to extend the transmission time of a wireless doorbell transmitter,
from 1/2 second to 1 second.

My house was built with a doorbell in the front hall. Because I always
listen to the radio or tv, I could not hear the bell in the basement or
the second floor. I put a second bell in the basement, and for the
second floor, I put the push-button transmitter for a third (wireless)
bell (buzzer) next to the doorbell transformer on the basement ceiling.

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch so
it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the rectified
output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone presses the
outside doorbell button.

If they hold the button for about a second or more, the buzzer in the
2nd floor hall buzzes, and if I'm on the second floor, I always hear it.

If they let go more quickly, it doesn't buzz.

Maybe I could use the 9 to 12 volts pulsating DC that goes to the
transmitter to charge a capacitor, which would then power the
transmitter for another second, to make sure the buzzer upstairs buzzes.
Any chance that would work? If not, some other simple idea?

Is there a slow release front-door doorbell button?


Last Thursday FEDEX "delivered" an envelope from a bank, but just left
it on the stoop, tilted so anyone on the public sidewalk could see its
bright red and blue colors and take it. No money inside, but still. I
didn't know it was coming and wouldn't know it was missing. I've
talked to 2 people at FEDEX and neither will say if Fedex has a position
on putting their envelopes in my door slot. The USPS doesn't object
to non-mail being put in mail slots.

I also didn't hear the doorbell, but I don't know if he pushed the
button quickly or not at all.

A few months ago I was sitting in the kitchen, 10 feet from the door and
the doorbell, (and I think it was Fedex) and he neither rang the bell
(the first floor bell is instantaneous) or knocked louder than a little
child might knock. That time the package was too big for the slot, and
he left it and I don't object to that part.

You used to be able to get neat simple "timer" buttons for stairway
lights, on for the duration of climbing a flight, but should work for
DC. They must have had a piston in a cylinder with a spring return. You
pressed down on the button to expel the air from the cylinder, a flap
valve closed and then air would probably be admittted along a long
capilliary tube , coiled up somewhere inside. Gave timing on of about 1
minute

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"micky" schreef in bericht
news:j6d0n9tu8666mg813jsavuarq55sndnshv@4ax.com...

I need a real simple method to solve this problem.

How to extend the transmission time of a wireless doorbell transmitter,
from 1/2 second to 1 second.

My house was built with a doorbell in the front hall. Because I always
listen to the radio or tv, I could not hear the bell in the basement or
the second floor. I put a second bell in the basement, and for the
second floor, I put the push-button transmitter for a third (wireless)
bell (buzzer) next to the doorbell transformer on the basement ceiling.

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch so
it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the rectified
output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone presses the
outside doorbell button.

If they hold the button for about a second or more, the buzzer in the
2nd floor hall buzzes, and if I'm on the second floor, I always hear it.

If they let go more quickly, it doesn't buzz.

Maybe I could use the 9 to 12 volts pulsating DC that goes to the
transmitter to charge a capacitor, which would then power the
transmitter for another second, to make sure the buzzer upstairs buzzes.
Any chance that would work? If not, some other simple idea?

Is there a slow release front-door doorbell button?


Last Thursday FEDEX "delivered" an envelope from a bank, but just left
it on the stoop, tilted so anyone on the public sidewalk could see its
bright red and blue colors and take it. No money inside, but still. I
didn't know it was coming and wouldn't know it was missing. I've
talked to 2 people at FEDEX and neither will say if Fedex has a position
on putting their envelopes in my door slot. The USPS doesn't object
to non-mail being put in mail slots.

I also didn't hear the doorbell, but I don't know if he pushed the
button quickly or not at all.

A few months ago I was sitting in the kitchen, 10 feet from the door and
the doorbell, (and I think it was Fedex) and he neither rang the bell
(the first floor bell is instantaneous) or knocked louder than a little
child might knock. That time the package was too big for the slot, and
he left it and I don't object to that part.

***

The transmitter takes its time to power up which will be a substantial part
of the delay. So what's the delay if you keep the wireless powered up and
you use the original pushbutton contacts? How long that pushbutton need to
be pressed to activate the remote doorbell? If that time is not too long,
it may be sufficient to put a relay parallel to the original doorbell which
activates the remote. Otherwise you will need some monostable to stretch the
pushbutton pulse. Just make sure that the powersupply of the original
doorbell is able to keep the wireless standby. When idle the load should be
neglectible but some doorbell tranformers are nevertheless not able to
provide this minimal power continuously.

petrus bitbyter

petrus bitbyter

 

[RobertMacy]

On Sun, 11 May 2014 20:10:51 -0700, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

...snip....
Last Thursday FEDEX "delivered" an envelope from a bank, but just left
it on the stoop, tilted so anyone on the public sidewalk could see its
bright red and blue colors and take it. No money inside, but still. I
didn't know it was coming and wouldn't know it was missing. I've
talked to 2 people at FEDEX and neither will say if Fedex has a position
on putting their envelopes in my door slot. The USPS doesn't object
to non-mail being put in mail slots.

I also didn't hear the doorbell, but I don't know if he pushed the
button quickly or not at all.

A few months ago I was sitting in the kitchen, 10 feet from the door and
the doorbell, (and I think it was Fedex) and he neither rang the bell
(the first floor bell is instantaneous) or knocked louder than a little
child might knock. That time the package was too big for the slot, and
he left it and I don't object to that part.

A doorbell that rings for three days wouldn't solve that problem. You ca't
assume with FedEx or UPS, nor blame them, UNLESS you discuss with them
first.

I had a similar situation Fedex dropped off a large TV monitor without
notifying me. As I found out much later, about 20 minutes after that
delivery, UPS excersized a pickup will call tag, took away the newly
delivered package, assuming that sealed box was the one to go back! All
without either delivery people telling me - I found out about a week later
when I called to find out where package was.

I called FedEx, that connected me to the local dispatch number [the
employee gave me their local number in case I need to call them directly]
however, I explained to them the problem of leaving a delivery without
notification and WHERE to leave it, they wrote a note for our dispatch mgr
AND talked to the drivers. Did the same with UPS. After that, any delivery
is tucked into a more secure location that can't be seen from the street,
and any activity they ring the door bell AND gently rap on the door for me.

PS you can also arrange [if you want] to have ALL packages left including
the posting of a separate notification by signing a thingy for them. I
used to live in such a large house that they had sufficient time to ring
the bell, write out a tag to tell me they attempted delivery, and then
just be leaving as I would get to the door. Having them leave everything
solved that problem!

 

[Bob F]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 11 May 2014 23:10:51 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch
so it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the
rectified output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone
presses the outside doorbell button.

Keying the power to the transmitter might have a side effect. My
guess is that the processor in the transmitter is taking its time
getting itself initialized and making sure all the internal
housekeeping is done before allowing it to belch RF. Such processors
also have a feature that will delay initial transmission so that the
transmitter will not spew junk when powered up. You may also be
charging a few capacitors on power up. I suggest you use it in the
manner originally specified by the manufacturer. Apply the power
continuously, probably with a battery, and key the pushbutton switch
with a relay.

Even so, you might have a slight delay caused by the time necessary to
decode the (rolling code) data. I once built a remote bird trap
release using various wireless remote controls. Timing had to be
quick and perfect to avoid injuring the bird.

I started with a wireless doorbell, which had a built in 1-2 second
delay. A spectrum analyzer showed me that the RF was appearing
instantly. A scope showed that the delay was built into the logic and
was not going to disappear. Next, I tried two different remote
controls purchased on eBay. They were somewhat better, but still had
about a 500 msec delay. I finally had to make my own two tone analog
encoder and decoder, in order to get 100-150 msec response time.

If this is the type of hardware you're using, I think the best bet
would be to insert a one-shot circuit (or relay delay if you want to
be crude), that produces a 2-3 second output pulse, for a very short
input pulse from the push button. That will insure that any length
depression of the pushbutton will produce at least a 2-3 second
output.

And despite all that, the FEDEX guy will still not push the button.

 

[RobertMacy]

On Sun, 11 May 2014 20:41:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

..snip....
Keying the power to the transmitter might have a side effect. My
guess is that the processor in the transmitter is taking its time
getting itself initialized and making sure all the internal
housekeeping is done before allowing it to belch RF. Such processors
also have a feature that will delay initial transmission so that the
transmitter will not spew junk when powered up. You may also be
charging a few capacitors on power up. I suggest you use it in the
manner originally specified by the manufacturer. Apply the power
continuously, probably with a battery, and key the pushbutton switch
with a relay.
...snip...

Here in US, these transmitters are controlled by FCC limitations applied
to 'intentional transmitters'

From memory and my understanding, they rarely are expected to transmit so
they give out a burst of RF, and therein lies why they are allowed to
operate. That burst is large compared to what things like radio
controllers are allowed to transmit BECAUSE they aren't expected to
operate very often. And sometimes to insure not very often means a single
burst, end. or short series, end.

So, the OP may need not a HOLD KEY DOWN function at the transmitter, but a
REPEAT KEY FUNCTION. as in, hitting the button over and over for a long
period of time.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 07:48:48 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

You used to be able to get neat simple "timer" buttons for stairway
lights, on for the duration of climbing a flight, but should work for
DC. They must have had a piston in a cylinder with a spring return. You
pressed down on the button to expel the air from the cylinder, a flap
valve closed and then air would probably be admittted along a long
capilliary tube , coiled up somewhere inside. Gave timing on of about 1
minute

Argh. Do they still make such timers? I used to use Agastat brand
pneumatic timers back in the 1960's. Agastat is now TE Connectivity:
<http://www.te.com/en/home.html>
It looks like they still make pneumatic timers:
<http://www.te.com/catalog/bin/TE.Connect?C=15003&M=FEAT&P=173197&U=&BML=10576,16354&LG=1>
Amazing. Thanks for the memory jog.

Also, if you're into retro timers, there's also the thermal time delay
relay, usually built inside a vacuum tube envelope.
<http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/KT88-Push-Pull-Tube-Amp/6NO30-Thermal-Delay-Relay-Vacuum-Tube.jpg>
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=6n030+delay>

While these have both been replaced by the 555 timer and digital
equivalents, they're still fun to play with.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku91Yg2lJmk>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 07:48:48 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

You used to be able to get neat simple "timer" buttons for stairway
lights, on for the duration of climbing a flight, but should work for
DC. They must have had a piston in a cylinder with a spring return. You
pressed down on the button to expel the air from the cylinder, a flap
valve closed and then air would probably be admittted along a long
capilliary tube , coiled up somewhere inside. Gave timing on of about 1
minute

Good idea. Googling for "pneumatic push button", I find:
<http://www.alarmcontrols.com/html/our_product.asp?action=view&ID=28>
all of which I think will work. They also have electronic versions,
but I think pneumatic is more cool.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 May 2014 09:13:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 12 May 2014 07:48:48 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

You used to be able to get neat simple "timer" buttons for stairway
lights, on for the duration of climbing a flight, but should work for
DC. They must have had a piston in a cylinder with a spring return. You
pressed down on the button to expel the air from the cylinder, a flap
valve closed and then air would probably be admittted along a long
capilliary tube , coiled up somewhere inside. Gave timing on of about 1
minute

Good idea. Googling for "pneumatic push button", I find:
http://www.alarmcontrols.com/html/our_product.asp?action=view&ID=28
all of which I think will work. They also have electronic versions,
but I think pneumatic is more cool.

Available on eBay:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=pneumatic+push+to+exit>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jon Elson]

micky wrote:

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch so
it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the rectified
output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone presses the
outside doorbell button.

If they hold the button for about a second or more, the buzzer in the
2nd floor hall buzzes, and if I'm on the second floor, I always hear it.

You might be able to put a larger capacitor on the DC side of the rectifier
to hold enough charge to keep the transmitter running long enough to
sound the remote buzzer. It depends on how much current the transmitter
takes, but it shouldn't be all that much.

Jon

 

[OldGuy]

Go to Harbor Freight and get a driveway sensor system: sees people,
etc, and transmits to the receiver. Receiver sounds off (two levels)
and blinks. Easy to extend since both non-contact sound and light.
Place the sender at the door positioned so it see only folks at the
entry. I have an outdoor light fixture that works as a holder up where
no one notices until too late.
Put the receiver where you can hear it.
The receiver can be run from a wall wart (not provided) or batts.
Th Sender runs on a 9v batt.
At least the ones I have do. There is a newer model so check it out
first.
The sender with 9v batt lasts 9 months.
I have one in my living room and receiver in the bedroom. The sender
gets walked through a dozen or more times a day and still gives me
excellent batt life.
I have several units all on the same channel so multiple transmitters
and one receiver.
No failures after 5 years use.
Only regret is that the receiver does not have different selectable
sounds so a channel announcing can be ID-ed by sound.

No button required to be pushed.

 

[Maynard A. Philbrook Jr.]

In article <j6d0n9tu8666mg813jsavuarq55sndnshv@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...

I need a real simple method to solve this problem.

How to extend the transmission time of a wireless doorbell transmitter,
from 1/2 second to 1 second.

My house was built with a doorbell in the front hall. Because I always
listen to the radio or tv, I could not hear the bell in the basement or
the second floor. I put a second bell in the basement, and for the
second floor, I put the push-button transmitter for a third (wireless)
bell (buzzer) next to the doorbell transformer on the basement ceiling.

For the little 1" x 3" transmitter, I bypassed the pushbutton switch so
it's always closed, and in place of the battery, I gave it the rectified
output of the doorbell transformer, but only when someone presses the
outside doorbell button.

If they hold the button for about a second or more, the buzzer in the
2nd floor hall buzzes, and if I'm on the second floor, I always hear it.

The problem is simple, assuming you did supply it with a rectified
output as you say? Put a cap on the rectified side, a large one that can
hold a charge long enough to get that thing to ding!

Of course, one could also use a 555 timer, use the trigger in (grd) to
activate, a RC from the output to the threshold to turn it off.


Jamie