How to do version control in backend design?

H

Harryzhu

Guest
How do you control the different version of backend design? Before cadence
use TDM and now don't support it and refer to the third party software named
as versionsync or designsync, but the charge is high. How should we manage
the different version of layout or other things? Since those data is biger
and I think CVS or such aliked software is not so proper, do you have better
advice? Thanks for your help!
 
Just a reference, if not tried it yet.
http://public.perforce.com/public/perforce/cdsp4/index.html

Bernd

Harryzhu wrote:
How do you control the different version of backend design? Before cadence
use TDM and now don't support it and refer to the third party software named
as versionsync or designsync, but the charge is high. How should we manage
the different version of layout or other things? Since those data is biger
and I think CVS or such aliked software is not so proper, do you have better
advice? Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
 
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:50:03 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:

How do you control the different version of backend design? Before cadence
use TDM and now don't support it and refer to the third party software named
as versionsync or designsync, but the charge is high. How should we manage
the different version of layout or other things? Since those data is biger
and I think CVS or such aliked software is not so proper, do you have better
advice? Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
Actually VersionSync is provided by Cadence (but developed by a third party,
MatrixOne (formerly Synchronicity)) and is free. However, it's a low end
version control system - not very full featured. That said, a lot of customers
use it successfully.

There are two other third party offerings as well as DesignSync. One is
ClioSoft's SOS, and the other is from IC Manage - which is based on Perforce.

Regards,

Andrew.
 
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:20:42 -0500, "m.deng" <mingdeng@rogers.com> wrote:

Andrew Beckett wrote:
In what term is VersionSync free? I don't see it's free from MatrixOne
and I don't see its link in Cadence web site(not logged into source link).

Ming
Click to expand...
Well, it's installed automatically whenever any DFII component is installed.
It doesn't check for any license features, so no special license is needed.

Documentation can be found in cdsdoc, or for the cdsdoc-challenged, you
can go to:

<instdir>/doc/versionsync/versionsync.pdf

Simplest way to get up and running in 30 seconds is to create a file
in your working directory called "cdsinfo.tag" with a line in it:

DMTYPE vs

Then you'll be able to create VersionSync managed libraries, checkin, checkout
etc from the library manager. But I'd read the docs too.

Andrew.
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:59:31 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:

I notice versionsync integrated in IC50, but I don't know if it need
additional licenses, and that versionsync is proper for several person's
team.
Click to expand...
See my post in another subthread. It doesn't need additional licenses.
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:12:24 -0500, "G Vandevalk" <vdvalk@rogers.com> wrote:

VersionSync has been around for a while.
(it was in 4.4.3 and up ...)
Click to expand...
It was first introduced as an add on kit, but since IC446 it has been part of
the normal software installation.

It is somewhat tricky to find the documentation and the
limitations are a bit clunky ... but it does work!
Click to expand...
<instdir>/doc/versionsync/versionsync.pdf

( I recall the biggest trick is to copy some candence control file
into your library and/or your directory with your libraries.
Click to expand...
Either use "vssetvault" or create a cdsinfo.tag in working dir containing
DMTYPE vs

You then uncommented one line that defined your version control to be .vs

and you have VersionSync. I recall that it was nearly impossilbe to use
with
the supplied documentation. Then I was involved in trialing DesignSync DFII
and all of a sudden the sparse documentation was much more obvious to me.

( The DesignSync DFII documentation goes over lots of choices and problems.
The VersionSync has a lot of places where these chioces are removed but the
consequences and/or restrictions are not obvious, you are just assumed to
know)
Click to expand...
Not sure why it would be impossible to use, given that it is very simple. Yes,
it's very limited - you don't really have any configuration management (except
being able to tag a load of versions), and its update performance is not great
when users work in separate (isolated) workareas and have large managed
databases (mainly because of the lack of meta data telling you what you have
in your workarea), but it's sufficient for many customers.

I recall that the biggest restriction was that versionSync could only
"version" cells,
where designSync could version views ....
Click to expand...
That's not true. VersionSync does _not_ version cells, but versions cellViews
and files. cells are not single (or comanaged) objects in DFII, so managing
cells wouldn't make much sense.

Regards,

Andrew.
 
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DcEaLdEeTnEcTe.HcIoSm> ????
news:cptq115a3f7kja307e8umkg3ka7361d85u@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:59:31 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:

I notice versionsync integrated in IC50, but I don't know if it need
additional licenses, and that versionsync is proper for several person's
team.

See my post in another subthread. It doesn't need additional licenses.
Click to expand...
I ever use TDM for data management, but it's difficult to use and have many
work to maintain the system until to try to know versionsync or designsync.
I think the design management is a common questions in small or great design
house, I wonder how to deal with it in big firm? Who can give some info?
Thanks for your help!

Best Regards,

Harryzhu
 
Andrew Beckett wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:50:03 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:


How do you control the different version of backend design? Before cadence
use TDM and now don't support it and refer to the third party software named
as versionsync or designsync, but the charge is high. How should we manage
the different version of layout or other things? Since those data is biger
and I think CVS or such aliked software is not so proper, do you have better
advice? Thanks for your help!



Actually VersionSync is provided by Cadence (but developed by a third party,
MatrixOne (formerly Synchronicity)) and is free. However, it's a low end
version control system - not very full featured. That said, a lot of customers
use it successfully.

In what term is VersionSync free? I don't see it's free from MatrixOne
Click to expand...
and I don't see its link in Cadence web site(not logged into source link).

Ming
 
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DcEaLdEeTnEcTe.HcIoSm> ????
news:p5lp11117v9clq78bgoi4mhi5ct33adbnr@4ax.com...
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:50:03 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:

How do you control the different version of backend design? Before
cadence
use TDM and now don't support it and refer to the third party software
named
as versionsync or designsync, but the charge is high. How should we
manage
the different version of layout or other things? Since those data is
biger
and I think CVS or such aliked software is not so proper, do you have
better
advice? Thanks for your help!


Actually VersionSync is provided by Cadence (but developed by a third
party,
MatrixOne (formerly Synchronicity)) and is free. However, it's a low end
version control system - not very full featured. That said, a lot of
customers
use it successfully.

There are two other third party offerings as well as DesignSync. One is
ClioSoft's SOS, and the other is from IC Manage - which is based on
Perforce.

Regards,

Andrew.
Click to expand...
I notice versionsync integrated in IC50, but I don't know if it need
additional licenses, and that versionsync is proper for several person's
team.
I visit Perforce's webpage, and find it need licenses, but I have no more
budget and don't know if it is my need. Is there any other free project?
Thanks for your help!

Best Regards,

Harryzhu
 
VersionSync has been around for a while.
(it was in 4.4.3 and up ...)

It is somewhat tricky to find the documentation and the
limitations are a bit clunky ... but it does work!

( I recall the biggest trick is to copy some candence control file
into your library and/or your directory with your libraries.

You then uncommented one line that defined your version control to be .vs

and you have VersionSync. I recall that it was nearly impossilbe to use
with
the supplied documentation. Then I was involved in trialing DesignSync DFII
and all of a sudden the sparse documentation was much more obvious to me.

( The DesignSync DFII documentation goes over lots of choices and problems.
The VersionSync has a lot of places where these chioces are removed but the
consequences and/or restrictions are not obvious, you are just assumed to
know)

I recall that the biggest restriction was that versionSync could only
"version" cells,
where designSync could version views ....

YMMV

--- Gerry

Rant on ..
All of the "binary" layout version control systems seem to impose
about a minimum of 3x data inflation for version control (i.e. 3 times as
much disk) and with a loose checkOut/Checkin Policy, this can grow to
be very expensive in disk. (i.e. if you check in every 1/2 hr and never
purge
meaningless interations, soon you end up with many many times disk
requirements) Users need to be educated on how to keep important changes
only.
Rant off ...

Looks like perforce (re
http://public.perforce.com/public/perforce/cdsp4/index.html )
may do it right ..





"Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote in message
news:cvj93g$2thp$1@mail.cn99.com...
"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DcEaLdEeTnEcTe.HcIoSm> ????
news:p5lp11117v9clq78bgoi4mhi5ct33adbnr@4ax.com...
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:50:03 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com
wrote:

How do you control the different version of backend design? Before
cadence
use TDM and now don't support it and refer to the third party software
named
as versionsync or designsync, but the charge is high. How should we
manage
the different version of layout or other things? Since those data is
biger
and I think CVS or such aliked software is not so proper, do you have
better
advice? Thanks for your help!


Actually VersionSync is provided by Cadence (but developed by a third
party,
MatrixOne (formerly Synchronicity)) and is free. However, it's a low end
version control system - not very full featured. That said, a lot of
customers
use it successfully.

There are two other third party offerings as well as DesignSync. One is
ClioSoft's SOS, and the other is from IC Manage - which is based on
Perforce.

Regards,

Andrew.


I notice versionsync integrated in IC50, but I don't know if it need
additional licenses, and that versionsync is proper for several person's
team.
I visit Perforce's webpage, and find it need licenses, but I have no more
budget and don't know if it is my need. Is there any other free project?
Thanks for your help!

Best Regards,

Harryzhu
Click to expand...
 
Andrews comments strike true. (My knowledge is a little dated)

One main problem I had was that 3rd party add on's that created views
outside of dfII would give the versionSync control stuff a major problem.

We would end up with these views & cells in unusable states.
( I recall it was an external parasitic L extraction tool )

YMMV

- - Gerry

P.S. Andrew is the authority here, I just comment from the sidelines

"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DcEaLdEeTnEcTe.HcIoSm> wrote in message
news:3rtq119qfq5lisi55d82um3nje0pon3qof@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:12:24 -0500, "G Vandevalk" <vdvalk@rogers.com
wrote:

VersionSync has been around for a while.
(it was in 4.4.3 and up ...)


It was first introduced as an add on kit, but since IC446 it has been part
of
the normal software installation.

It is somewhat tricky to find the documentation and the
limitations are a bit clunky ... but it does work!


instdir>/doc/versionsync/versionsync.pdf

( I recall the biggest trick is to copy some candence control file
into your library and/or your directory with your libraries.


Either use "vssetvault" or create a cdsinfo.tag in working dir containing
DMTYPE vs

You then uncommented one line that defined your version control to be .vs

and you have VersionSync. I recall that it was nearly impossilbe to use
with
the supplied documentation. Then I was involved in trialing DesignSync
DFII
and all of a sudden the sparse documentation was much more obvious to me.

( The DesignSync DFII documentation goes over lots of choices and
problems.
The VersionSync has a lot of places where these chioces are removed but
the
consequences and/or restrictions are not obvious, you are just assumed to
know)


Not sure why it would be impossible to use, given that it is very simple.
Yes,
it's very limited - you don't really have any configuration management
(except
being able to tag a load of versions), and its update performance is not
great
when users work in separate (isolated) workareas and have large managed
databases (mainly because of the lack of meta data telling you what you
have
in your workarea), but it's sufficient for many customers.

I recall that the biggest restriction was that versionSync could only
"version" cells,
where designSync could version views ....


That's not true. VersionSync does _not_ version cells, but versions
cellViews
and files. cells are not single (or comanaged) objects in DFII, so
managing
cells wouldn't make much sense.

Regards,

Andrew.
Click to expand...
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:10:26 -0500, "G Vandevalk" <vdvalk@rogers.com> wrote:

Andrews comments strike true. (My knowledge is a little dated)

One main problem I had was that 3rd party add on's that created views
outside of dfII would give the versionSync control stuff a major problem.

We would end up with these views & cells in unusable states.
( I recall it was an external parasitic L extraction tool )

YMMV
Click to expand...
Ah, that would probably be a problem with any DM tool. If the third party tool
creates "views" in the library, but doesn't register them properly with the
data registry, and consequently GDM doesn't know what the co-managed sets are.

- - Gerry

P.S. Andrew is the authority here, I just comment from the sidelines
Click to expand...
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
 
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:20:13 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:

"Andrew Beckett" <andrewb@DcEaLdEeTnEcTe.HcIoSm> ????
news:cptq115a3f7kja307e8umkg3ka7361d85u@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:59:31 +0800, "Harryzhu" <harrytone@sohu.com> wrote:

I notice versionsync integrated in IC50, but I don't know if it need
additional licenses, and that versionsync is proper for several person's
team.

See my post in another subthread. It doesn't need additional licenses.



I ever use TDM for data management, but it's difficult to use and have many
work to maintain the system until to try to know versionsync or designsync.
I think the design management is a common questions in small or great design
house, I wonder how to deal with it in big firm? Who can give some info?
Thanks for your help!

Best Regards,

Harryzhu
Click to expand...
All powerful DM systems will take some work to set up and manage so that
they work well. Some of the benefits of the third party DM systems is that
they can be got up and running quickly - but they tend to need quite a bit
of configuration to get to work with the exact use model you want - especially
with multi-site.

I'd say most big firms use one of the commercial DM systems (DesignSync,
ClioSoft SOS or IC Manage - with that order of market share). A couple have
rolled their own, but that's definitely a big investment in terms of
resources.

VersionSync is also very quick to set up and use, but it is much more limited
than the commercial offerings.

Andrew

(Note, everything posted here is my own personal opinion, and not a
recommendation to use any particular DM system).
 
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