how to control LED array? (follow-up)

[Michael Noone]

Hi - this is a follow-up to this thread:

http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/thread/679679383
cd7eab0/cb7e229d9bca99d5

I've been working on finalizing the design. I've drawn up a schematic in
Eagle of what I think should work:

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mnoone/www/Electronics/LED-Array.jpg

This is essentially identical to what John Fields was suggesting, except
I've modified some resistor values as I have now chosen LEDs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7513499883 (3.3v
forward voltage, 20-30ma typical current)

The design of this array calls for only one column to be on at any given
time. The columns are active high, and the rows are active low. The goal
is to saturate the transistors. The value for R1-R16 was chosen by
dividing the typical base-emitter saturation voltage by the base
current, thus 0.85/.015 = 56.67, or about 56 ohms. These values were
found on page two of both the 2N4401 and 2N4403 datasheets:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N4401.pdf
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N4403.pdf

The value for R16-R24 was chosen by taking (V+ - 2*VCesat - Vled)/ILED =
(5 - 2*0.4 - 3.3)/.03 = .9/.03 = 30 ohms. A current of 30ma was chosen
because only one led on each row will be on at any given time, and as
each column will only be on for 1/8 of the time - I feel it is best to
use the maximum current allowed.

Oh - lastly, if anyone is curious as to the odd placement of gnd on the
row connector and +5v on the column connector (as the layout would
probabaly be nicer the other way around) - I did this as a reminder that
the rows are active low and the columns are active high.

So how does everything look? Some of my calculations and final numbers
differ from the original thread - thus I thought I should check back to
see if I'm doing something wrong. Thanks so much,

-Michael J. Noone

 

[Ban]

Michael Noone wrote:

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mnoone/www/Electronics/LED-Array.jpg

This is essentially identical to what John Fields was suggesting,
except I've modified some resistor values as I have now chosen LEDs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7513499883 (3.3v
forward voltage, 20-30ma typical current)

The design of this array calls for only one column to be on at any
given time. The columns are active high, and the rows are active low.
The goal is to saturate the transistors. The value for R1-R16 was
chosen by dividing the typical base-emitter saturation voltage by the
base current, thus 0.85/.015 = 56.67, or about 56 ohms. These values
were found on page two of both the 2N4401 and 2N4403 datasheets:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N4401.pdf
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N4403.pdf

The value for R16-R24 was chosen by taking (V+ - 2*VCesat -
Vled)/ILED = (5 - 2*0.4 - 3.3)/.03 = .9/.03 = 30 ohms. A current of
30ma was chosen because only one led on each row will be on at any
given time, and as each column will only be on for 1/8 of the time -
I feel it is best to use the maximum current allowed.

Oh - lastly, if anyone is curious as to the odd placement of gnd on
the row connector and +5v on the column connector (as the layout would
probabaly be nicer the other way around) - I did this as a reminder
that the rows are active low and the columns are active high.

So how does everything look? Some of my calculations and final numbers
differ from the original thread - thus I thought I should check back
to see if I'm doing something wrong. Thanks so much,

-Michael J. Noone

Did Mr. Fields also advise to take these 56 ohms base resistors? They will
consume more current than the LEDs. You can use 470 ohms for them. with 8mA
you can drive easily 100mA collector current in case you multiplex. You have
to calculate the voltage across the resistor, not the transistor. when you
have 4.5V control signal (typical PIC) and 0.75V Ube, then R= 3.75V/8mA =
468 ohm. You can even take 1k if you use transistors with beta of 150 or
more.
Uce sat will be a bit lower than 0.4V, maybe 0.15V, so it is better to use
47 ohm for 30mA. But if you always multiplex them and the program doesn't
get stuck with one LED always on, you can probably even put 100mA through
the LED with a duty cycle of 1/8. It would be better to make a current
source for the Leds then you do not need these resistors at all and can
easily adjust the brightness.

--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Michael Noone]

"Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote in
news:maSle.952901$b5.41512298@news3.tin.it:

Did Mr. Fields also advise to take these 56 ohms base resistors?

Now that I'm looking back - He used different values.

They
will consume more current than the LEDs.

The idea is that there'd be 15ma going through the 56ohm transistors,
saturating the transistors. (I believe they're saturated at 15ma?) Did I
mess up somewhere in my calculation?

You can use 470 ohms for them.

But unless I'm looking at something wrong - that wouldn't saturate the
transistor, and if it's not saturated my understanding is that you can't
accurately predict voltage and current through it.

with 8mA you can drive easily 100mA collector current in case
you multiplex.

It will need to be able to drive 240ma - 8*30ma = 240ma. I want to run
these at max brightness due to the 1/8 duty cycle.

You have to calculate the voltage across the resistor,
not the transistor. when you have 4.5V control signal (typical PIC)
and 0.75V Ube, then R= 3.75V/8mA = 468 ohm. You can even take 1k if
you use transistors with beta of 150 or more.

Oops - you're quite right about that. Not quite sure where my head was
there.

Uce sat will be a bit lower than 0.4V, maybe 0.15V, so it is better to
use 47 ohm for 30mA.

Oh damn - just realized that Vcesat is not constant - it varies
depending on collector current. That's no good... I'm not quite sure
what exactly to do about that as collector current should be anywhere
between 0 and 240ma - which presents a fairly wide range of Vcesat
voltages.

But if you always multiplex them and the program
doesn't get stuck with one LED always on, you can probably even put
100mA through the LED with a duty cycle of 1/8. It would be better to
make a current source for the Leds then you do not need these
resistors at all and can easily adjust the brightness.

Could you advise on how to make such a current source?

Thanks,

-Michael

 

[Ban]

Michael Noone wrote:

"Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote in
news:maSle.952901$b5.41512298@news3.tin.it:


Oh damn - just realized that Vcesat is not constant - it varies
depending on collector current. That's no good... I'm not quite sure
what exactly to do about that as collector current should be anywhere
between 0 and 240ma - which presents a fairly wide range of Vcesat
voltages.

But if you always multiplex them and the program
doesn't get stuck with one LED always on, you can probably even put
100mA through the LED with a duty cycle of 1/8. It would be better to
make a current source for the Leds then you do not need these
resistors at all and can easily adjust the brightness.

Could you advise on how to make such a current source?

Thanks,

-Michael

Michael, in the first place choose different transistors for 240mA current.
I had a look at the Zetex site and found these for example:
NPN
ZTX1047A Vbe<70mV @1A Ib=10mA
ZTX1048A Vbe<45mV @0.5A Ib=10mA
PNP
ZTX717 Vbe<17mV @0.1A Ib=10mA
ZTX788A Vbe<35mV @0.1A Ib=2mA
You can also get a ready made current source BCR402R, you can switch it off
putting pin1 high.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.infineon.com/cgi/ecrm.dll/ecrm/scripts/public_download.jsp%3Foid%3D18469%26parent_oid%3D22765&e=10313
.. It is also possible to make a current source with 2 transistors that can
be switched by a logic voltage. But I do not draw it now.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

 

[Michael Noone]

"Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote in
news:uvTle.952925$b5.41513040@news3.tin.it:

Michael, in the first place choose different transistors for 240mA
current. I had a look at the Zetex site and found these for example:
NPN
ZTX1047A Vbe<70mV @1A Ib=10mA
ZTX1048A Vbe<45mV @0.5A Ib=10mA
PNP
ZTX717 Vbe<17mV @0.1A Ib=10mA
ZTX788A Vbe<35mV @0.1A Ib=2mA

Why use different transistors? The 2N4401 and 2N4403 are both rated for
600ma I believe. Is your worry that they will be dissipating too much
power? I must admit my use of them is due to them being the ones
reccomended to me - but also it makes sense to me to use them as they
are considered to be "classic" transistors.

You can also get a ready made current source BCR402R, you can switch
it off putting pin1 high.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1
&q=http://www.infineon.com/cgi/ec
rm.dll/ecrm/scripts/public_download.jsp%3Foid%3D18469%26parent_oid%
3D22
765&e=10313 . It is also possible to make a current source with 2
transistors that can be switched by a logic voltage. But I do not draw
it now.

I'm looking at the datasheet for the BCR402R, but I must admit I'm a bit
confused about it. Is the idea of the chip essentially that it outputs
an amount of current controlled by the size of the resistor between Vs
and Rext? The datasheet is rather sparse in regards to the effects of
changing the value of this resistor. Or is the idea that the chip always
supplies 30ma if it can, and this resistor is used to drop the voltage
down? The latter of these is what I'm thinking is probabaly the case -
but I'm just not sure - I mean I think most LEDs run at more like 5-15ma
- I think 30ma is pretty high for an LED.

So - what I think you're suggesting is to use these BCR402Rs to drive
single LEDs at a time, and then use a saturated transistor to handle the
whole 240ma. Is that right? Also - do you know of any sources for the
BCR402R? The usual suspects - Digikey, Newark, and Mouser, all don't
carry it.

Thanks!

-Michael

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 27 May 2005 18:27:05 -0500, Michael Noone
<mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote:

Hi - this is a follow-up to this thread:

http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/thread/679679383
cd7eab0/cb7e229d9bca99d5

I've been working on finalizing the design. I've drawn up a schematic in
Eagle of what I think should work:

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mnoone/www/Electronics/LED-Array.jpg

This is essentially identical to what John Fields was suggesting, except
I've modified some resistor values as I have now chosen LEDs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7513499883 (3.3v
forward voltage, 20-30ma typical current)

The design of this array calls for only one column to be on at any given
time. The columns are active high, and the rows are active low. The goal
is to saturate the transistors. The value for R1-R16 was chosen by
dividing the typical base-emitter saturation voltage by the base
current, thus 0.85/.015 = 56.67, or about 56 ohms. These values were
found on page two of both the 2N4401 and 2N4403 datasheets:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N4401.pdf
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N4403.pdf

The value for R16-R24 was chosen by taking (V+ - 2*VCesat - Vled)/ILED =
(5 - 2*0.4 - 3.3)/.03 = .9/.03 = 30 ohms. A current of 30ma was chosen
because only one led on each row will be on at any given time, and as
each column will only be on for 1/8 of the time - I feel it is best to
use the maximum current allowed.

---
If you want to drive the LEDs at 30mA, then the column driver needs to
pass 240mA with all the LEDs in that column ON.

For a forced beta of 10, Fairchild spec's the 2N4401 Vbe(sat) at 0.9V
with about a 300mA load, so the base resistor would be:

Vcc - Vbe 4.1V
R = ----------- = -------- ~ 171 ohms
Ib 0.024A

Since there's nothing critical about that forced beta and you've got
an awful lot of gain available, I'd round up to the next standard 5%
value, which is 180 ohms.

With about 24mA being pushed through the resistor it'll be
dissipating:

E˛ 16.8
P = --- = ------ ~ 0.09W
R 180R

but since you'll be doing 8:1 multiplexing it'll only be dissipating
1/8 of that, or about 12 milliwatts, so 1/4 watt thru-hole resistors
will be fine if you're going that route.

With a collector current of about 300mA, Fairchild spec's Vce(sat) at
about 0.2V for a 2N4401, so the multiplexed transistors will be
dissipating:

(Vcc - Vce) Ic 4.8V * 0.24A
P = ---------------- = -------------- = 0.144 watts
8 8

Which the 2N4401s can easily handle.


Looking at the row drivers; even if you're multiplexing, all the LEDs
in a row could be on one right after the other, so each of the 2N4403s
will have to handle a maximum of 30mA of collector current. With 30
mA of collector current and a forced beta of 10, Fairchild spec's the
2N4403's Vbe(sat) at about 0.8V, so the resistance of the base
resistor would be:

Vcc - Vbe 4.2V
R = ----------- = -------- = 1400 ohms
Ib 0.003A

Then, since we've got a drop across the LED of about 3.3V at 30mA, a
drop of about 0.05V across the row driver at 30mA, and a drop of about
0.2V across the column driver at 240mA, the LED's current limiting
resistor needs to be:


Vcc - (Vled + Vce1 + Vce2) 1.45V
R = ---------------------------- = ------- ~ 48.3 ohms
Iled 0.03A

With standard 5% values of 47 ohms and 51 ohms available, it might be
tempting to go for 47 ohms, but in many cases that 30mA current
specified for white LEDs is the _absolute maximum_, so it would be
prudent to round up to 51 ohms.

Also, not knowing what your I/Os look like, I've made the assumption
that the drive from your ľC is rail-to-rail and haven't considered the
drop which will be encountered when the ports actually have to supply
current into the row and column driver bases, particularly the column
drivers, so you may want to rework the numbers with that in mind.

Oh - lastly, if anyone is curious as to the odd placement of gnd on the
row connector and +5v on the column connector (as the layout would
probabaly be nicer the other way around) - I did this as a reminder that
the rows are active low and the columns are active high.

So how does everything look? Some of my calculations and final numbers
differ from the original thread - thus I thought I should check back to
see if I'm doing something wrong. Thanks so much,

---
See above, and you're welcome.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 28 May 2005 15:19:58 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

With a collector current of about 300mA, Fairchild spec's Vce(sat) at
about 0.2V for a 2N4401, so the multiplexed transistors will be
dissipating:

(Vcc - Vce) Ic 4.8V * 0.24A
P = ---------------- = -------------- = 0.144 watts
8 8

Which the 2N4401s can easily handle.

---
Aarghhh!!! It should be:


Vce(sat) Ic 0.2V * 0.24A
P = ------------- = -------------- = 0.006 watt
8 8
---


--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On Fri, 27 May 2005 23:28:42 -0500, Michael Noone
<mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote:

"Ban" <bansuri@web.de> wrote in
news:maSle.952901$b5.41512298@news3.tin.it:

Did Mr. Fields also advise to take these 56 ohms base resistors?

Now that I'm looking back - He used different values.

Probably so. Your base resistors are incredibly low-valued.

They will consume more current than the LEDs.

The idea is that there'd be 15ma going through the 56ohm transistors,
saturating the transistors. (I believe they're saturated at 15ma?) Did I
mess up somewhere in my calculation?

Yes.

You can use 470 ohms for them.

But unless I'm looking at something wrong - that wouldn't saturate the
transistor, and if it's not saturated my understanding is that you can't
accurately predict voltage and current through it.

You can saturate a BJT with a lot less than 15mA into the base. It
all depends on the circuit around it and the BJT. Of course, with 56
ohms, you'd probably be getting more than 15mA, as well.

with 8mA you can drive easily 100mA collector current in case
you multiplex.

It will need to be able to drive 240ma - 8*30ma = 240ma. I want to run
these at max brightness due to the 1/8 duty cycle.

You can probably run them with even more than 30mA, given that they
will only be on for 1/8 duty. You might want to make this an
adjustable setting so you can change things later on.

You have to calculate the voltage across the resistor,
not the transistor. when you have 4.5V control signal (typical PIC)
and 0.75V Ube, then R= 3.75V/8mA = 468 ohm. You can even take 1k if
you use transistors with beta of 150 or more.

Oops - you're quite right about that. Not quite sure where my head
was there.

Uce sat will be a bit lower than 0.4V, maybe 0.15V, so it is better to
use 47 ohm for 30mA.

Oh damn - just realized that Vcesat is not constant - it varies
depending on collector current. That's no good... I'm not quite sure
what exactly to do about that as collector current should be anywhere
between 0 and 240ma - which presents a fairly wide range of Vcesat
voltages.

Then design things to work.

But if you always multiplex them and the program
doesn't get stuck with one LED always on, you can probably even put
100mA through the LED with a duty cycle of 1/8. It would be better to
make a current source for the Leds then you do not need these
resistors at all and can easily adjust the brightness.

Could you advise on how to make such a current source?

Actually, I don't think you need to worry about controlled current
sources or sinks. The topology you have is just fine for getting the
job done. You could try and design something else, but I'd recommend
getting the design you already have laid out working reasonably well.
Then, once you understand it well enough, you can always work on
various improvement ideas later on.

Let's look at a slightly modified version of your design. I've made
the PNPs the high-current sources that may need to drive many LEDs at
once and the NPNs the lower-current sinks that will never need to sink
more than one LED's current. You can always arrange it the other way,
of course. Here's a 3X3 design that is expandable to the 8x8 on which
you appear to be working:

: Vcc
: |
: | Vcc
: \ |
: / Ra3 |
: \ 47k |
: / |
: Rb3 | |<e Q3
: 3---/\/\-+-------------------| PNP
: |\c
: |
: | COL 3
: +--------------------+--------------------+-- ~~~ ----,
: | | | |
: Vcc | | | \
: | | | | / R3
: | Vcc | | | \ 47k
: \ | --- --- --- /
: / Ra2 | ~ \ / D3A ~ \ / D3B ~ \ / D3C |
: \ 47k | --- --- --- |
: / | | | | gnd
: Rb2 | |<e Q2 | | |
: 2---/\/\-+------------| PNP | | |
: |\c | | |
: | | | |
: | | | | COL 2
: +--------------------+--------------------+--------- ~~~ ----,
: | | | | | | |
: Vcc | | | | | | \
: | | | | | | | / R2
: | Vcc | | | | | | \ 47k
: \ | --- | --- | --- | /
: / Ra1 | ~ \ / D2A | ~ \ / D2B | ~ \ / D2C | |
: \ 47k | --- | --- | --- | |
: / | | | | | | | gnd
: Rb1 | |<e Q1 | | | | | |
: 1---/\/\-+-----| PNP | | | | | |
: |\c | | | | | |
: | | | | | | |
: | | | | | | | COL 1
: +--------------------+--------------------+---------------- ~~~ ----,
: | | | | | | | | | |
: | | | | | | | | | \
: --- | | --- | | --- | | / R1
: ~ \ / D1A | | ~ \ / D1B | | ~ \ / D1C | | \ 47k
: --- | | --- | | --- | | /
: | | | | | | | | | |
: | | | | | | | | | |
: | ROW A| | | ROW B| | | ROW C| | gnd
: +------+------'.. +------+------'.. +------+------'..
: | | |
: \ \ \
: / RA / RB / RC
: \ \ \
: / / /
: | | |
: | | |
: RbA |/c QA RbB |/c QB RbC |/c QC
: ,--/\/\-+-| NPN ,--/\/\-+-| NPN ,--/\/\-+-| NPN
: | | |>e | | |>e | | |>e
: | | | | | | | | |
: A \ | B \ | C \ |
: RaA / gnd RaB / gnd RaC / gnd
: 47k \ 47k \ 47k \
: / / /
: | | |
: gnd gnd gnd

I've used ~~~ and .. to indicate places where more rows and columns
may be added. (I think that it should be clear enough, given that
you've already been laying out an 8x8.)

The diodes shown above are the LEDs, of course.

Let's take it in sections. The current sink is:

: |
: \
: / RA
: \
: /
: |
: |
: RbA |/c QA
: ,--/\/\-+-| NPN
: | | |>e
: | | |
: A \ |
: RaA / gnd
: 47k \
: /
: |
: gnd


This section sinks the current for one LED, only. The NPN, QA, is
operated as a switch (assumed saturated.) The input point called "A"
is the place where your logic-level control enters to control the
switch, QA.

Let's make the design assumption that the beta we want should be about
20 (a figure that is well below the peak beta for most common devices
today.) If you expect to sink 30mA per LED, then you would expect
(30mA/20) or 1.5mA for the base drive. At about 1mA or so, typical
Vbe is very close to the usual 0.7V assumption, so let's go with that
as an approximation. So the base of QA will be at 0.7V when sinking.

If your logic level control is nominally 5V and CMOS and having to
provide 1.5mA or so, let's choose an estimate of about 4.8V at the pin
of your micro (it's not uncommon to find output resistance slopes of
about 60-150 ohms for micro pins; so use the worse value of 150 ohms
at 1.5mA to get 0.225V drop -- I just called this 5-.2 or 4.8V.) This
means that RbA should be (4.8V-0.7V)/1.5mA or 2733 ohms. A standard
value at or below this figure should be fine. 2700 ohms, then.

If you wanted to sink 100mA, instead, the computation would be to
figure a base drive of 100mA/20 or 5mA. Your micro's output would
probably drop to something like 4.2V, supplying that much current (you
can always examine the data sheets to get a better figure for this.)
This means your RbA value should be (4.2V-0.7V)/5mA or 700 ohms. Call
it 680 ohms to pick up on a standard value.

What about the dissipation? Well, for QA, the operating Vce at a beta
of 20 might be around 0.1V or so. Looking at the 2N2222A from
Motorola, I see that at an Ic=10mA and an Ib of 0.5mA (beta=20), the
Vce is typically below 0.05V at 25C. I also see that an IC=150mA and
an Ib of 7.5mA (again, beta=20), the Vce is typically below 0.1V.
Let's use the higher Vce, or 0.1V. That makes things look worse,
heating wise, so it will be a conservative estimate if you choose to
run at 30mA instead of 100mA. With Vce=0.1 you get 0.1V*30mA or 3mW
at 30mA and you get 0.1V*100mA or 10mW at 100mA. Both dissipations
are easily handled by a 2N2222. Also, by a 2N3904, if you prefer.
The TO-92 plastic package will be just fine.

Luckily then, no need to go find large NPNs.

By the way, I've added RaA here as a 47k value designed to ensure that
if there is no signal input at "A", then the base will be clearly
pulled to ground keeping the NPN base from floating and firmly off.
At a base voltage of about 0.7V when ON, this resistor will sink
another 15uA. It won't be noticed. Or even a 10k @ 70uA won't be
noticed. But tying it down like this may help in a stand-alone
display with a connector, where the signal lines might just "float in
space," otherwise.

Forget RA for the moment and lets go on to the high side "column
driver" section:

: Vcc
: |
: | Vcc
: \ |
: / Ra1 |
: \ 47k |
: / |
: Rb1 | |<e Q1
: 1---/\/\-+-----| PNP
: |\c
: |
: |

Very similar. Except that there may be a problem due to the amount of
current sourcing required. Let's see if there is a problem, first.

This section sources the current for up to eight LEDs in your design.
The PNP, Q1, is also operated as a switch (assumed saturated.) The
input point called "1" is the place where your logic-level control
enters to control the switch, Q1.

Let's make the design assumption that the beta we want should be about
20 (again, a figure that is well below the peak beta for most common
devices today.) If you expect to sink 8*30mA per LED, then you would
expect (240mA/20) or 12mA for the base drive. As this is about 10X
the base current for the sinking driver above, that implies about 60mV
greater Vbe -- let's just call it 0.8V. So the base of Q1 will be as
low as 0.8V below 5V, or 4.2V, when sourcing.

If your logic level control is nominally 5V and CMOS and having to
sink some 12mA or so, let's choose an estimate of about 1.1V at the
pin of your micro (it's not uncommon to find output resistance slopes
of about 60-90 ohms for the low side of CMOS micro pins; so use the
worse value of 90 ohms at 12mA to get 1.08V drop -- I just called this
1.1V.) This means that Rb1 should be (4.2V-1.1V)/12mA or 258 ohms. A
standard value at or below this figure should be fine. 220 ohms,
then.

What about the dissipation at 8*30mA? Well, for Q1 as a 2N4403, the
operating Vce at a beta of 20 might be around 0.35V or so (guessing
from the curves on the data sheet.) With Vce=0.35V you get
0.35V*240mA or 84mW. Plus some for the base drive of 0.9V*12mA (0.9V
comes from the data sheet and the 12mA comes from 240mA/20), which is
another 11mW for a total of some 95mW. Call it 100mW. The junction
to ambient thermal resistance is 200, so this means 20C over ambient.
Livable in the 2N4403, I think.

Luckily then, no need to go find large PNPs, if you are satisfied with
30mA LED currents.

If you wanted to sink 100mA for each LED, instead, the computation
would be to figure a base drive of (8*100mA)/20 or 40mA. Your micro's
output probably cannot sink this much. So this would mean that you
need another BJT. If you chose to use a Darlington arrangement, your
Vce would be about 1V or so, a serious loss from your 5V supply, and
assuming things could still work at 800mA that would still amount to a
dissipation of 800mW -- a lot. So perhaps no Darlington arrangement.

Oh, well. You might even want to use two BJTs in the case at 12mA
base drive for the 30mA/LED case, so let's look at one of several
possible ideas:

: Vcc
: |
: | Vcc
: \ |
: / Ra1 |
: \ 47k |
: / |
: | |<e Q1p
: ,--+-----| PNP
: | |\c
: | |
: Rb1 |/c Q1n |
: 1--/\/\---| NPN
: |>e
: |
: |
: \ Re1
: /
: \
: /
: |
: gnd

In this case, the base drive for Q1p is now provided by Q1n and
doesn't have to be supplied by a microcontroller's pin. Also, the
sense of the "1" input is inverted from before, but that's a minor
point.

Now, we can still go with Q1p's beta being 20. So we will need to
still sink about 40mA of Q1p base current.

At these kinds of currents, can a 2N4403 handle the dissipation??
With 800mA, the Vcesat will be about 0.6V, so that is 480mW. Plus
40mA*Vbesat or at least 40mA*1.1V which is another 44mW. Call it
something on the order of 550mW. The junction-to-ambient thermal
resistance is, again, 200 for the 2N4403, so the change over ambient
is .55*200 or 110 C. Way too hot.

We need to select a different device. Perhaps something in a TO-220
package. A TIP-30A, for example, has a junction-to-ambient figure of
62.5. I think the Vce would still be about 0.6V and the Vbe would
still be in the area of 1.1V (something less than 1.3V, according to
the sparse data sheet from STMicro) so the temp change would be
..55*62.5 or 34.5 C. Livable change, I think.

Let's go with the TIP-30A for figuring purposes. We'll stay with
Vcesat=0.6V when sourcing 800mA. The Vbe could be argued to be less
than 1.3V, but let's just call it 1.3V and not quibble about it, for
now. This means that Vc of Q1n will be 1.3V below 5V, or 3.7V. Let's
keep Q1n's Vce to about 1.5V (out of saturation) so that its beta will
probably be in the vicinity of 200, or so. This means that Ve of Q1n
will be about 2.2V. Vbe of Q1n will probably be close to 0.7V, so Vb
will be 2.9V. Since Re1 must handle our 40mA of base drive for Q1p
plus a little base current for Q1n, we can figure that Re1 must be a
tiny bit less than 2.2V/40mA or <55 ohms. We can select 47 as a
standard value, then. Rb1 should be (5V-2.9V)/(40mA/200) or 10,500
ohms. Call it 8.2k just to be sure.

That's about it. If you go back to the fuller design I listed, you
will also see R1, R2, and R3. I just added those pull-downs to keep
the nodes at ground when the column isn't being actively driven. I
don't know if floating them would be a problem, but if you use a scope
to probe those points it would probably be nice to have the pull-downs
in place.

Jon

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sat, 28 May 2005 18:32:43 -0500, John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2005 15:19:58 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:


With a collector current of about 300mA, Fairchild spec's Vce(sat) at
about 0.2V for a 2N4401, so the multiplexed transistors will be
dissipating:

(Vcc - Vce) Ic 4.8V * 0.24A
P = ---------------- = -------------- = 0.144 watts
8 8

Which the 2N4401s can easily handle.

---
Aarghhh!!! It should be:


Vce(sat) Ic 0.2V * 0.24A
P = ------------- = -------------- = 0.006 watt
8 8
---

John, have you ever considered making these corrections _before_ you
hit send?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 29 May 2005 16:23:54 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2005 18:32:43 -0500, John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2005 15:19:58 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:


With a collector current of about 300mA, Fairchild spec's Vce(sat) at
about 0.2V for a 2N4401, so the multiplexed transistors will be
dissipating:

(Vcc - Vce) Ic 4.8V * 0.24A
P = ---------------- = -------------- = 0.144 watts
8 8

Which the 2N4401s can easily handle.

---
Aarghhh!!! It should be:


Vce(sat) Ic 0.2V * 0.24A
P = ------------- = -------------- = 0.006 watt
8 8
---

John, have you ever considered making these corrections _before_ you
hit send?

---
I did...

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

I forgot to finally address myself to the value of RA in:

: |
: \
: / RA
: \
: /
: |
: |
: RbA |/c QA
: ,--/\/\-+-| NPN
: | | |>e
: | | |
: A \ |
: RaA / gnd
: 47k \
: /
: |
: gnd

What it should be depends on the Vcesat of QA and the Vcesat of Q1 (or
Q1p, from the earlier discussion) and on the expected voltage across
the diode at the desired current. Already, we know that for QA, this
Vcesat is about 0.1V. Also, if you are going with 30mA per LED, the
2N4403 gives you about 0.35V for Vcesat at full-bore 240mA. So, you
lose about .45V (call it .5V) at those two places. Also, the LED
itself at 30mA is about 3.3V from what you've said. So the total loss
of voltage is about 3.8V from 5V. That leaves 1.2V for the resistor,
RA, at 30mA. So, Ra=1.2V/30mA, or 40 ohms. Make it 39, as a standard
value.

In the case of the higher drive, 100mA per diode, more thoughts are
needed. Here, with the TIP30A I mentioned, the Vcesat is still about
0.6V at 800mA. If you use a TIP42A, instead, that drops well below
0.2V with 40mA base current. Whether you use one or the other only
chooses where the heat gets dissipated (RA or Q1p), so long as there
is enough voltage headroom for the LED itself. So let's see what the
LED requires.

I don't have a data sheet on your LEDs, so a lot of guessing is in
order. But the diode equation that says that the slope of the Vd vs
Id line (the linearized resistance) of a diode is about (nkT/q) /
(Id+Isat). At Id's of 20-100mA, Isat can be largely ignored. So this
is about n*26mV/Id or something like 2.6 ohms at 30mA with n=3
(nominally 1, but 3 isn't an unreasonable guess) and .78 ohms at
100mA. For pure rough-shod guessing work, I'd take the average of
these two (2.6+.8)/2 or 1.7 ohms as the mean slope and figure that if
there is 3.3V at 30mA, then there is 3.3V+(100mA-30mA)*1.7 or 3.42V at
100mA. Call it 3.5V. So, with 5V supply, we are left with (5V - 3.5V
- .6V - .1V) or 0.8V. That's slim, but it suggests an RA of .8/100mA
or 8 ohms. Use a 7.5, I suppose.

RA would need to dissipate 75mW. In the 100mA per LED design, Q1p
would be dissipating some 550mW, if you recall, with the TIP30. If
you wanted to shift more dissipation to RA, you could use the TIP42
which would cut its Vcesat to say 0.2V and its dissipation to under
200mW. But then the difference in Vcesat (0.6 - 0.2) would have to be
picked up in the resistor, RA. So it's new value would be 12 ohms and
its dissipation would be 120mW. That might not seem quite right,
because you might be wondering how it is that you can go from 550mW to
200mW on Q1p and only go up from 75mW to 120mW on RA. But if you
remember that there are eight of these RA resistors, each of which are
carrying their own part of this difference, then you can see how it
all comes out even again. In other words, by using a slightly more
expensive PNP on the high-side source, you can distribute the power
dissipation over 8 resistors, resulting in lower peak temperatures
overall.

Jon