How-To: Common Cause Of Flat Panel PS Failure

B

Bob Villa

Guest
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.
 
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.
Click to expand...
Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G˛
 
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G˛
Correct. 'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high ESR
Click to expand...
caps will fail quickly. Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps aren't
real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio Shack or
Caps R Us.

PlainBill
 
On Mar 6, 3:31 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G

Correct.  'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high ESR
caps will fail quickly.  Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps aren't
real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio Shack or
Caps R Us.

PlainBill
Click to expand...
Got them from Newark (Illinois Cap. and Rubycon)
 
stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM
Click to expand...

Going to a higher voltage usually raises the initial ESR. That kind
of defeats the purpose of repairing the equipment.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 6, 3:31 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G

Correct. 'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high ESR
caps will fail quickly. Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps aren't
real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio Shack or
Caps R Us.

PlainBill

Got them from Newark (Illinois Cap. and Rubycon)
Click to expand...

Which series? The brand tells you nothing about their
specifications.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 23:56:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM


Going to a higher voltage usually raises the initial ESR. That kind
of defeats the purpose of repairing the equipment.
Click to expand...
Opposite, higher voltage rating usually lowers ESR ;) Check the datasheets.

Grant.
 
On 2011-03-06 22:31:55 +0100, PlainBill@yawhoo.com said:

On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G˛
Correct. 'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high ESR
caps will fail quickly. Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps aren't
real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio Shack or
Caps R Us.

PlainBill
Click to expand...
you can build yourself a very usefull esr meter to identify quickly the
faulty capacitor ...

schematics here, simple analog to sophisticated digilat esr meter.

http://kripton2035.free.fr/esr-repository.html

regards,
--
---
Kripton
 
On Mar 6, 10:57 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:

On Mar 6, 3:31 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G

Correct.  'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high ESR
caps will fail quickly.  Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps aren't
real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio Shack or
Caps R Us.

PlainBill

Got them from Newark (Illinois Cap. and Rubycon)

   Which series?  The brand tells you nothing about their
specifications.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Click to expand...
I'll let you know when they fail...dip-shit! (Original crap lasted 5
yrs)
 
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 03:14:12 -0800, Bob Villa wrote:

On Mar 6, 10:57 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:

On Mar 6, 3:31 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There
are 4 electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the
switching PS. There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that
usually bulge and/or fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to
.50c for each. (I used higher voltage on the replacements of
1000x15 and 470x25) Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or
totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic
FM

G

Correct.  'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high
ESR caps will fail quickly.  Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps
aren't real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio
Shack or Caps R Us.

PlainBill

Got them from Newark (Illinois Cap. and Rubycon)

   Which series?  The brand tells you nothing about their
specifications.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

I'll let you know when they fail...dip-shit! (Original crap lasted 5
yrs)
Click to expand...
FAIL. You're out of your element here. Go back and troll alt.home.repair.
Your bullshit might be better told there where you don't have real repair
techs who did/do this kind of stuff for a living.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
 
On Mar 7, 8:19 am, Meat Plow <mhyw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 03:14:12 -0800, Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:57 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:

On Mar 6, 3:31 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There
are 4 electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the
switching PS. There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that
usually bulge and/or fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to
.50c for each. (I used higher voltage on the replacements of
1000x15 and 470x25) Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or
totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic
FM

G

Correct.  'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high
ESR caps will fail quickly.  Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps
aren't real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio
Shack or Caps R Us.

PlainBill

Got them from Newark (Illinois Cap. and Rubycon)

   Which series?  The brand tells you nothing about their
specifications.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

I'll let you know when they fail...dip-shit! (Original crap lasted 5
yrs)

FAIL. You're out of your element here. Go back and troll alt.home.repair.
Your bullshit might be better told there where you don't have real repair
techs who did/do this kind of stuff for a living.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Click to expand...
I'm only relating what I did/or found to fix a problem I had...if you
shitheads want to add to that...your purgative.
Sorry if it has been covered here before.
 
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:57 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:

On Mar 6, 3:31 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:52:54 -0800 (PST), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM

G

Correct. 'Bob Villa' apparently wants repeat business as his high ESR
caps will fail quickly. Note, 'Bob', good quality low ESR caps aren't
real expensive - you just aren't going to buy them at Radio Shack or
Caps R Us.

PlainBill

Got them from Newark (Illinois Cap. and Rubycon)

Which series? The brand tells you nothing about their
specifications.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

I'll let you know when they fail...dip-shit! (Original crap lasted 5
yrs)
Click to expand...

Dipshit? You don't even know how to snip a sig file, let alone
anything about real troubleshooting. I've been finding and replacing
bad electrolytics for over 45 years.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
Grant wrote:
On Sun, 06 Mar 2011 23:56:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM


Going to a higher voltage usually raises the initial ESR. That kind
of defeats the purpose of repairing the equipment.

Opposite, higher voltage rating usually lowers ESR ;) Check the datasheets.
Click to expand...

It depends on the construction ot the Electrolytic. Some larger size
cans have four identical capacitors in parallel, inside the can to lower
the ESR. A lot don't.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wdCdnX91Y788-OnQnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM


Going to a higher voltage usually raises the initial ESR. That kind
of defeats the purpose of repairing the equipment.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure that I go along with that, Michael. The chart of
'expected' ESRs on the front of Bob Parker's meter, would suggest that
increasing the working voltage for a given capacitance value, produces ever
lower ESR figures, until you get up to about 100v working, when the trend
reverses slightly, and small increases are then recorded ... I've always
found that chart of his a pretty good guide.

Arfa
 
On Mar 7, 6:18 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

I'll let you know when they fail...dip-shit! (Original crap lasted 5
yrs)

   Dipshit?  You don't even know how to snip a sig file, let alone
anything about real troubleshooting.  I've been finding and replacing
bad electrolytics for over 45 years.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Click to expand...
Do YOU even know how to read? I put this out there...if you want to
add to it from your experience go to it. There are people who are just
trying to save some money and fix things themselves. Lighten up...I
don't need to belong to your fucking club!
 
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wdCdnX91Y788-OnQnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...

stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM


Going to a higher voltage usually raises the initial ESR. That kind
of defeats the purpose of repairing the equipment.

I'm not entirely sure that I go along with that, Michael. The chart of
'expected' ESRs on the front of Bob Parker's meter, would suggest that
increasing the working voltage for a given capacitance value, produces ever
lower ESR figures, until you get up to about 100v working, when the trend
reverses slightly, and small increases are then recorded ... I've always
found that chart of his a pretty good guide.
Click to expand...

I've seen some brands that didn't follow that chart very well. The
cheaper brands seem more like they set the spec with a dartboard. I had
datasheets for over fifty brands t one time, and some so called low ESR
were no better than the lowest grade of standard electrolytics. Other
do follow Bob Parker's chart quite well.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 7, 6:18 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:


I'll let you know when they fail...dip-shit! (Original crap lasted 5
yrs)

Dipshit? You don't even know how to snip a sig file, let alone
anything about real troubleshooting. I've been finding and replacing
bad electrolytics for over 45 years.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Do YOU even know how to read? I put this out there...if you want to
add to it from your experience go to it. There are people who are just
trying to save some money and fix things themselves. Lighten up...I
don't need to belong to your fucking club!
Click to expand...

Posting half assed information helps no one, and bad electrolytics in
power supplies have been a problem since the '20s. Also, no one needs
your childish rants. There are enough crybabies who pop into the group
and think they are a genius, without you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wdCdnX91Y788-OnQnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...

stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Mar 6, 7:35 am, Bob Villa <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is common to almost all flat panel power supplies. There are 4
electrolytic capacitors (same physical size) on the switching PS.
There are 2) 1000uF X 10V and 2) 470uF X 15V that usually bulge and/or
fail. You shouldn't pay more than .25to .50c for each. (I used higher
voltage on the replacements of 1000x15 and 470x25)
Symptoms of failure are: slow power-up or totally dead.

Look for highest ripple current rating. Nichicon HZ, HN, Panasonic FM


Going to a higher voltage usually raises the initial ESR. That kind
of defeats the purpose of repairing the equipment.


I'm not entirely sure that I go along with that, Michael. The chart of
'expected' ESRs on the front of Bob Parker's meter, would suggest that
increasing the working voltage for a given capacitance value, produces
ever lower ESR figures, until you get up to about 100v working, when the
trend reverses slightly, and small increases are then recorded ... I've
always found that chart of his a pretty good guide.

Arfa
Click to expand...
Even Bob P. isn't very happy with the chart - it is only a guideline,
not a code sheet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6kgS_AwuH0

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
 
On Mar 7, 9:13 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:


Do YOU even know how to read? I put this out there...if you want to
add to it from your experience go to it. There are people who are just
trying to save some money and fix things themselves. Lighten up...I
don't need to belong to your fucking club!

   Posting half assed information helps no one, and bad electrolytics in
power supplies have been a problem since the '20s.  Also, no one needs
your childish rants.  There are enough crybabies who pop into the group
and think they are a genius, without you.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Click to expand...
Hey Mike when can I expect this PSU to fail...a few years from now?
Thanks for your gracious responses.
 
Bob Villa wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:13 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:


Do YOU even know how to read? I put this out there...if you want to
add to it from your experience go to it. There are people who are just
trying to save some money and fix things themselves. Lighten up...I
don't need to belong to your fucking club!

Posting half assed information helps no one, and bad electrolytics in
power supplies have been a problem since the '20s. Also, no one needs
your childish rants. There are enough crybabies who pop into the group
and think they are a genius, without you.

Hey Mike when can I expect this PSU to fail...a few years from now?
Thanks for your gracious responses.
Click to expand...

When can you post a real question?


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
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