how RS Components survives

[Anne Onime]

I worked for a company that bought everything off RS.
They could have got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or
even Bunnings. I asked the purchasing officer why, and he
said: well, if we get someone to run around to all these
other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45 an hour
to do that.
They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser,
even for the city office fleet. One size fits all.

 

[Noodnik]

"Anne Onime" <anonymous@rip.ax.lt> wrote in message
news:704dbe6c8350b142baee06fc5a994368@rip.ax.lt...

I worked for a company that bought everything off RS.
They could have got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or
even Bunnings. I asked the purchasing officer why, and he
said: well, if we get someone to run around to all these
other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45 an hour
to do that.
They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser,
even for the city office fleet. One size fits all.

Even if they used a mini car, the total cost of having an employee driving
round to pick things up is going to be of the same order. What's the fuss,
RS balances it's stock, logistics and delivery services against price and
obviously does OK. It's a business.

 

[Mark Harriss]

Anne Onime wrote:

I worked for a company that bought everything off RS.
They could have got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or
even Bunnings. I asked the purchasing officer why, and he
said: well, if we get someone to run around to all these
other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45 an hour
to do that.
They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser,
even for the city office fleet. One size fits all.

Even the EE department of a university I went to, would buy
from them at a minimum of 200% over normal price because the
purchasing officer thought his desk was neater with only one
catalogue on it.

 

[Joerg]

Anne Onime wrote:

I worked for a company that bought everything off RS.
They could have got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or
even Bunnings. I asked the purchasing officer why, and he
said: well, if we get someone to run around to all these
other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45 an hour
to do that.
They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser,
even for the city office fleet. One size fits all.

Have they ever heard of Fedex? Just a thought ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Joerg]

terryc wrote:

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:42:26 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Anne Onime wrote:
I worked for a company that bought everything off RS. They could have
got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or even Bunnings. I asked the
purchasing officer why, and he said: well, if we get someone to run
around to all these other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45
an hour to do that.
They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser, even for the
city office fleet. One size fits all.


Have they ever heard of Fedex? Just a thought ...

Err, ever heard of AUSTRALIA?
WTF would anyone here use fedex. even Star (jaycar's courier?) is cheaper
than Fedex or DHL and if you are a frequent courier user, couriers Please
has been very economical for me over the years.

It was just an example and I am in the US. Heck, we just had 100lbs of
special dog food shipped to us via Fedex, clear across the US. Not
expensive at all but that may be different in Australia.

But you can tell that purchasing officer to do the math. I bet any
carrier will cost less than a $45/h employee tooling around in a
Landcruiser.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 10:27:47 +0800, "Noodnik" <Noodnik@NotHere.com> wrote:

:
:"Anne Onime" <anonymous@rip.ax.lt> wrote in message
:news:704dbe6c8350b142baee06fc5a994368@rip.ax.lt...
:>I worked for a company that bought everything off RS.
:> They could have got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or
:> even Bunnings. I asked the purchasing officer why, and he
:> said: well, if we get someone to run around to all these
:> other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45 an hour
:> to do that.
:> They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser,
:> even for the city office fleet. One size fits all.
:
:Even if they used a mini car, the total cost of having an employee driving
:round to pick things up is going to be of the same order. What's the fuss,
:RS balances it's stock, logistics and delivery services against price and
bviously does OK. It's a business.
:

There are good reasons why a company might prefer to buy everything from RS...

First, it simplifies the ordering system. Secondly, and most importantly, you
will find that the products from RS will be of extremely good quality, and where
appropriate, genuine manufacturer articles - not counterfeits.

When I was purchasing electronics components for an electronics design and
development group it was not uncommon to find that some products purchased from
Jaycar, Altronics etc, and other enthusiast/hobbyist type suppliers, were
substandard. For example, on some types of connectors the pin dimesions were not
quite standard or the plating was poor and we experienced a high proportion of
intermittent high resistance or open circuits. The delays caused by return for
refund and obtaining new reliable items from an alternative supplier was
extremely costly. For that reason alone the extra cost of items purchased from
RS can make it more economical in the long run.

Another reason is that RS can access parts that you won't find on the shelf
anywhere in Australia. An example;- a few weeks back a customer asked me to see
if I could repair an expensive Swiss made watch pressure tester which had failed
and would blow fuses as fast as they were put in. Normally, these machines have
to be sent back to the factory for repair which results in a freight cost of
around $600 alone, let alone the repair cost. As it transpired, the Swiss
manufacturer would give no service assistance (they just want to sell new
machines for around $6.5K ea) so I had to nut out the circuit and fault find the
components myself. In the end the fault which caused the fuse failure was down
to blown 1N4004's in the main bridge rectifier. But the reason these failed was
due to a shorted winding in the Philips DC geared motor which was used to open
and close the vacuum chamber. Guess what, RS had this exact item on their
inventory and within a week I had the new motor installed and the machine up and
running again much to the delight of the customer. And it only cost him about
half the freight cost back to Switzerland.

It is for these reasons people in business prefer to stick with either a single
supplier or more often, a small number of reliable suppliers.

I have no vested interest in RS Components or any other supplier.....

 

[terryc]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:42:26 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Anne Onime wrote:
I worked for a company that bought everything off RS. They could have
got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or even Bunnings. I asked the
purchasing officer why, and he said: well, if we get someone to run
around to all these other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45
an hour to do that.
They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser, even for the
city office fleet. One size fits all.


Have they ever heard of Fedex? Just a thought ...

Err, ever heard of AUSTRALIA?
WTF would anyone here use fedex. even Star (jaycar's courier?) is cheaper
than Fedex or DHL and if you are a frequent courier user, couriers Please
has been very economical for me over the years.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:21:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:terryc wrote:
:> On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:42:26 -0700, Joerg wrote:
:>
:>> Anne Onime wrote:
:>>> I worked for a company that bought everything off RS. They could have
:>>> got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or even Bunnings. I asked the
:>>> purchasing officer why, and he said: well, if we get someone to run
:>>> around to all these other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45
:>>> an hour to do that.
:>>> They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser, even for the
:>>> city office fleet. One size fits all.
:>>>
:>>>
:>> Have they ever heard of Fedex? Just a thought ...
:>
:> Err, ever heard of AUSTRALIA?
:> WTF would anyone here use fedex. even Star (jaycar's courier?) is cheaper
:> than Fedex or DHL and if you are a frequent courier user, couriers Please
:> has been very economical for me over the years.
:>
:
:It was just an example and I am in the US. Heck, we just had 100lbs of
:special dog food shipped to us via Fedex, clear across the US. Not
:expensive at all but that may be different in Australia.
:
:But you can tell that purchasing officer to do the math. I bet any
:carrier will cost less than a $45/h employee tooling around in a
:Landcruiser.


Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export negotiate
with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to pass on
the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side of the
continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local purchase of
the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of scale
freighting items across the country can be expensive.

Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying from
interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example, I
recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered, thermostatically
controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available solar
powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys. I
couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was after so I
had to go interstate to NSW
http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf

The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent across
Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your dog food
purchase). And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to a
freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One off
freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and often are
more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all about
economy of scale...

 

[terryc]

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:21:15 -0700, Joerg wrote:

It was just an example and I am in the US. Heck, we just had 100lbs of
special dog food shipped to us via Fedex, clear across the US. Not
expensive at all but that may be different in Australia.

In some areas, we seem to have far greater competition. Fedex isn't low
cost here.

But you can tell that purchasing officer to do the math. I bet any
carrier will cost less than a $45/h employee tooling around in a
Landcruiser.

That is what I meant about CP, you buy a book of 10 dockets ($120/10
atm?) and just tell supplier to call them and when goods turn up you hand
over a docket. Seems to cover ~70km radius of Sydney.

In comparison, we also have some name companies that are very expensive
as well.

 

[Joerg]

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:21:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:terryc wrote:
:> On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:42:26 -0700, Joerg wrote:
:
:>> Anne Onime wrote:
:>>> I worked for a company that bought everything off RS. They could have
:>>> got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or even Bunnings. I asked the
:>>> purchasing officer why, and he said: well, if we get someone to run
:>>> around to all these other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45
:>>> an hour to do that.
:>>> They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser, even for the
:>>> city office fleet. One size fits all.
:
:
:>> Have they ever heard of Fedex? Just a thought ...
:
:> Err, ever heard of AUSTRALIA?
:> WTF would anyone here use fedex. even Star (jaycar's courier?) is cheaper
:> than Fedex or DHL and if you are a frequent courier user, couriers Please
:> has been very economical for me over the years.
:
:
:It was just an example and I am in the US. Heck, we just had 100lbs of
:special dog food shipped to us via Fedex, clear across the US. Not
:expensive at all but that may be different in Australia.
:
:But you can tell that purchasing officer to do the math. I bet any
:carrier will cost less than a $45/h employee tooling around in a
:Landcruiser.


Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export negotiate
with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to pass on
the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side of the
continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local purchase of
the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of scale
freighting items across the country can be expensive.

Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying from
interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example, I
recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered, thermostatically
controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available solar
powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys. I
couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was after so I
had to go interstate to NSW
http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf

The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent across
Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your dog food
purchase). ...

Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
populated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to a
freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One off
freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and often are
more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all about
economy of scale...

If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
after just a few months.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Tom]

On 6/10/2010 2:48 AM, Joerg wrote:
....

If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
after just a few months.

They don't work that good in 90+% humidity and that what we have in
summer at least in northern half of Australia.

Tom

 

[Joerg]

terryc wrote:

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
be a large tax burden on freight in Australia.

10% GST (goods and services tax) should be about it. Not sure if freight
companies get a fuel excise rebate.

We also have sparesely populated areas like Nevada or
nearly the whole midwest, areas where
it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

Perth is the west coast and has some population density around the city
and thining out further away, but higher around the SW corner of the
country.

Well they don't have much choice but to either buy the farmers out or
provide access do they. In some areas consolidation is solving this
problem as children of farmers decide there is no point in staying on the
land.


If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:

Coastal area have high humidty and evaporative coolers just don't work/
grossly inefficent. I'm 25 miles from eastern coast and we can only get 2
degree cooling on a portable one.

Seems to be similar for Tom, in humid climates they simply do not work.
Maybe more inland it would. Portable ones aren't that efficient to begin
with, they suck in part of the air they blow out. Ours is going through
a wall and the air has to circulate through part of the house before it
can escape. It sort of regulates itself. When it is really hot, like
40C, humidity is 10-15% and it cools nicely. When it's only 30C the
humidity is up above 30% and cooling is less extreme. Depends on whether
the wind comes from the sea or from the inland.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
be a large tax burden on freight in Australia.

10% GST (goods and services tax) should be about it. Not sure if freight
companies get a fuel excise rebate.

We also have sparesely populated areas like Nevada or
nearly the whole midwest, areas where
it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

Perth is the west coast and has some population density around the city
and thining out further away, but higher around the SW corner of the
country.

Well they don't have much choice but to either buy the farmers out or
provide access do they. In some areas consolidation is solving this
problem as children of farmers decide there is no point in staying on the
land.

If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:

Coastal area have high humidty and evaporative coolers just don't work/
grossly inefficent. I'm 25 miles from eastern coast and we can only get 2
degree cooling on a portable one.

 

[kreed]

On Oct 6, 2:48 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:
On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:21:15 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:terryc wrote:
:> On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 09:42:26 -0700, Joerg wrote:
:
:>> Anne Onime wrote:
:>>> I worked for a company that bought everything off RS. They could have
:>>> got a lot from Jaycar or Altronics, or even Bunnings. I asked the
:>>> purchasing officer why, and he said: well, if we get someone to run
:>>> around to all these other place in the Landcruiser, it is costing $45
:>>> an hour to do that.
:>>> They were an exploration company, and had all Landcruiser, even for the
:>>> city office fleet. One size fits all.
:
:
:>> Have they ever heard of Fedex? Just a thought ...
:
:> Err, ever heard of AUSTRALIA?
:> WTF would anyone here use fedex. even Star (jaycar's courier?) is cheaper
:> than Fedex or DHL and if you are a frequent courier user, couriers Please
:> has been very economical for me over the years.
:
:
:It was just an example and I am in the US. Heck, we just had 100lbs of
:special dog food shipped to us via Fedex, clear across the US. Not
:expensive at all but that may be different in Australia.
:
:But you can tell that purchasing officer to do the math. I bet any
:carrier will cost less than a $45/h employee tooling around in a
:Landcruiser.

Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export negotiate
with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to pass on
the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side of the
continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local purchase of
the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of scale
freighting items across the country can be expensive.

Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying from
interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example, I
recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered, thermostatically
controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available solar
powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys. I
couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was after so I
had to go interstate to NSW
http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf

The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent across
Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your dog food
purchase). ...

Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
populated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

   ... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to a
freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One off
freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and often are
more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all about
economy of scale...

If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDi...

They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
after just a few months.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

No go, the biggest problem where I am is humidity - the only thing
that
solves that is air conditioning, but with the power price rip-offs we
are copping
it may be only a matter of time before we just have to sit and boil.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 18:00:52 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Seems to be similar for Tom, in humid climates they simply do not work.
Maybe more inland it would.

Definitely. Relations inland (~400miles) only uses evap coolers

Portable ones aren't that efficient to begin with, they suck
in part of the air they blow out. Ours is going through a wall

We have put ours in the window and it was no better. Humidity is too
high.

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:Ross Herbert wrote:
SNIP
:>
:>
:> Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export
negotiate
:> with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to pass on
:> the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side of the
:> continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local purchase
of
:> the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of scale
:> freighting items across the country can be expensive.
:>
:> Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying from
:> interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example, I
:> recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered, thermostatically
:> controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available solar
:> powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys. I
:> couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was after
so I
:> had to go interstate to NSW
:> http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf
:>
:> The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent across
:> Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your dog
food
:> purchase). ...
:
:
:Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
:be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
opulated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
:it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

When it comes to being sparsely populated anywhere west of Adelaide is hard to
beat - and that takes in almost two-thirds of the land area of Australia.
Adelaide is 2793km by road from Perth and you might come across a man and his
dog if your lucky. It's not quite that sparse, but you get the idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Australia

:
:
:> ... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to a
:> freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One off
:> freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and often are
:> more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all about
:> economy of scale...
:
:
:If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
:thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
:wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:
:
:http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
:
:They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
:after just a few months.

I have a 27 degree pitch corrugated colorbond roof http://www.colorbond.com/
with sealed eaves. Last summer we had a long run of hot days around the 40 deg C
or above mark and after a few days of this heat the ceiling insulation becomes
overloaded by the stored superheated air in the roof space and it begins to make
it very uncomfortable in the rooms below. I measured the air temperature in the
roof space at 55deg C and I think it would be even hotter than that if I had the
right measuring thermometer. Since I don't want to go down the refrigerative air
conditioning path due to expense and power requirements, and there are
relatively few days when it is absolutely necessary, I am hopeful that by
evacuating the hot air and replacing it with cooler air from lower down the
temperature in the rooms below will be cooler by several degrees C. For a few
hundred $$$ it is worth a go.

Evaporative air conditioning has been used extensively in Australia mainly in
the form of whole-of-house ducted systems (eg. Breezair etc). They are cheap to
run and can be effective where humidity is low. Once relative humidity gets
above 35% their efficiency declines rapidly (by approx 50% and more). There are
portable evaporative units available but they are not really worthwhile imo.
Many homes here have removed evap and installed refrigerative ducted ac. Evap
should work well in Nevada and similar climates.

 

[Noodnik]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:5phna61u59ph227bhjnuredg7824knh7hj@4ax.com...

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:Ross Herbert wrote:
SNIP
:
:
:> Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export
negotiate
:> with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to
pass on
:> the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side
of the
:> continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local
purchase
of
:> the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of
scale
:> freighting items across the country can be expensive.
:
:> Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying
from
:> interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example,
I
:> recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered,
thermostatically
:> controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available
solar
:> powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys.
I
:> couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was
after
so I
:> had to go interstate to NSW
:> http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf
:
:> The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent
across
:> Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your
dog
food
:> purchase). ...
:
:
:Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
:be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
opulated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
:it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

When it comes to being sparsely populated anywhere west of Adelaide is
hard to
beat - and that takes in almost two-thirds of the land area of Australia.
Adelaide is 2793km by road from Perth and you might come across a man and
his
dog if your lucky. It's not quite that sparse, but you get the idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Australia

:
:
:> ... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to
a
:> freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One
off
:> freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and
often are
:> more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all
about
:> economy of scale...
:
:
:If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
:thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
:wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:
:
:http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
:
:They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
:after just a few months.

I have a 27 degree pitch corrugated colorbond roof
http://www.colorbond.com/
with sealed eaves. Last summer we had a long run of hot days around the 40
deg C
or above mark and after a few days of this heat the ceiling insulation
becomes
overloaded by the stored superheated air in the roof space and it begins
to make
it very uncomfortable in the rooms below. I measured the air temperature
in the
roof space at 55deg C and I think it would be even hotter than that if I
had the
right measuring thermometer. Since I don't want to go down the
refrigerative air
conditioning path due to expense and power requirements, and there are
relatively few days when it is absolutely necessary, I am hopeful that by
evacuating the hot air and replacing it with cooler air from lower down
the
temperature in the rooms below will be cooler by several degrees C. For a
few
hundred $$$ it is worth a go.

Evaporative air conditioning has been used extensively in Australia mainly
in
the form of whole-of-house ducted systems (eg. Breezair etc). They are
cheap to
run and can be effective where humidity is low. Once relative humidity
gets
above 35% their efficiency declines rapidly (by approx 50% and more).
There are
portable evaporative units available but they are not really worthwhile
imo.
Many homes here have removed evap and installed refrigerative ducted ac.
Evap
should work well in Nevada and similar climates.

We opted against any sort of aircon, instead we bought a thing called
'silent breeze' over 25 years ago. It's a large electrically driven fan,
over a metre in diameter, which has been fitted into the ceiling of a room
that's at the other end of the house from the sleeping area. At nighttime
when it cools down we open some windows and turn the fan on, it sucks cool
air into the entire house, and vents out through the tiled roof, exhausting
the heated air from the roofspace at the same time. For all but a handful of
horror periods of a few days through summer, it enables us to hold the
interior of the entire house to a thoroughly comfortable level day and
(particularly) night, there'd be few nights during summertime when we don't
have a blanket on the bed.

The thing has required zero maintenance throughout its entire life, and
total power is just the fan motor, way less than an aircon. Best investment
we've ever made IMHO.

 

[Ross Herbert]

Yes, I did do some research into low speed large diameter fans of the type you
mention http://www.breezepower.com.au/breeze_power_2a4.pdf but they were fairly
expensive and there was a bit more installation work required. I would point out
that by installing ceiling vents in all rooms a roof mounted exhaust fan will do
a similar job to the above unit. However, my main objective is to reduce the
temperature of the air trapped in the roof space so that it does not overload
the insulating properties of the ceiling insulation, so I do not plan to install
ceiling vents initially. I will install a number of vents around the eaves to
allow the intake of cooler air to the ceiling space. By having only a single
exhaust hole in the roof for the fan I anticipate that warmer air will not leak
out too quickly during the cooler months because the fan will never be turned
on.

On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 16:17:46 +0800, "Noodnik" <Noodnik@NotHere.com> wrote:

:
:"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
:news:5phna61u59ph227bhjnuredg7824knh7hj@4ax.com...
:> On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
:>
:> :Ross Herbert wrote:
:> SNIP
:> :>
:> :>
:> :> Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export
:> negotiate
:> :> with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to
:> pass on
:> :> the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side
:> of the
:> :> continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local
:> purchase
:> of
:> :> the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of
:> scale
:> :> freighting items across the country can be expensive.
:> :>
:> :> Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying
:> from
:> :> interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example,
:> I
:> :> recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered,
:> thermostatically
:> :> controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available
:> solar
:> :> powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys.
:> I
:> :> couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was
:> after
:> so I
:> :> had to go interstate to NSW
:> :> http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf
:> :>
:> :> The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent
:> across
:> :> Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your
:> dog
:> food
:> :> purchase). ...
:> :
:> :
:> :Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
:> :be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
:> opulated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
:> :it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.
:>
:> When it comes to being sparsely populated anywhere west of Adelaide is
:> hard to
:> beat - and that takes in almost two-thirds of the land area of Australia.
:> Adelaide is 2793km by road from Perth and you might come across a man and
:> his
:> dog if your lucky. It's not quite that sparse, but you get the idea.
:> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Australia
:>
:> :
:> :
:> :> ... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to
:> a
:> :> freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One
:> off
:> :> freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and
:> often are
:> :> more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all
:> about
:> :> economy of scale...
:> :
:> :
:> :If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
:> :thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
:> :wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:
:> :
:>
:http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
:> :
:> :They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
:> :after just a few months.
:>
:> I have a 27 degree pitch corrugated colorbond roof
:> http://www.colorbond.com/
:> with sealed eaves. Last summer we had a long run of hot days around the 40
:> deg C
:> or above mark and after a few days of this heat the ceiling insulation
:> becomes
:> overloaded by the stored superheated air in the roof space and it begins
:> to make
:> it very uncomfortable in the rooms below. I measured the air temperature
:> in the
:> roof space at 55deg C and I think it would be even hotter than that if I
:> had the
:> right measuring thermometer. Since I don't want to go down the
:> refrigerative air
:> conditioning path due to expense and power requirements, and there are
:> relatively few days when it is absolutely necessary, I am hopeful that by
:> evacuating the hot air and replacing it with cooler air from lower down
:> the
:> temperature in the rooms below will be cooler by several degrees C. For a
:> few
:> hundred $$$ it is worth a go.
:>
:> Evaporative air conditioning has been used extensively in Australia mainly
:> in
:> the form of whole-of-house ducted systems (eg. Breezair etc). They are
:> cheap to
:> run and can be effective where humidity is low. Once relative humidity
:> gets
:> above 35% their efficiency declines rapidly (by approx 50% and more).
:> There are
:> portable evaporative units available but they are not really worthwhile
:> imo.
:> Many homes here have removed evap and installed refrigerative ducted ac.
:> Evap
:> should work well in Nevada and similar climates.
:
:We opted against any sort of aircon, instead we bought a thing called
:'silent breeze' over 25 years ago. It's a large electrically driven fan,
ver a metre in diameter, which has been fitted into the ceiling of a room
:that's at the other end of the house from the sleeping area. At nighttime
:when it cools down we open some windows and turn the fan on, it sucks cool
:air into the entire house, and vents out through the tiled roof, exhausting
:the heated air from the roofspace at the same time. For all but a handful of
:horror periods of a few days through summer, it enables us to hold the
:interior of the entire house to a thoroughly comfortable level day and
particularly) night, there'd be few nights during summertime when we don't
:have a blanket on the bed.
:
:The thing has required zero maintenance throughout its entire life, and
:total power is just the fan motor, way less than an aircon. Best investment
:we've ever made IMHO.
:
:
:

 

[kreed]

On Oct 6, 6:17 pm, "Noodnik" <Nood...@NotHere.com> wrote:

"Ross Herbert" <rherb...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message

news:5phna61u59ph227bhjnuredg7824knh7hj@4ax.com...



On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:Ross Herbert wrote:
SNIP
:
:
:> Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export
negotiate
:> with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to
pass on
:> the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side
of the
:> continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local
purchase
of
:> the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of
scale
:> freighting items across the country can be expensive.
:
:> Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying
from
:> interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example,
I
:> recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered,
thermostatically
:> controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available
solar
:> powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys.
I
:> couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was
after
so I
:> had to go interstate to NSW
:>http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf
:
:> The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent
across
:> Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your
dog
food
:> purchase). ...
:
:
:Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
:be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
opulated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
:it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

When it comes to being sparsely populated anywhere west of Adelaide is
hard to
beat - and that takes in almost two-thirds of the land area of Australia.
Adelaide is 2793km by road from Perth and you might come across a man and
his
dog if your lucky. It's not quite that sparse, but you get the idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Australia

:
:
:>    ... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to
a
:> freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One
off
:> freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and
often are
:> more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all
about
:> economy of scale...
:
:
:If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
:thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
:wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:
:
:http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDi....
:
:They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
:after just a few months.

I have a 27 degree pitch corrugated colorbond roof
http://www.colorbond.com/
with sealed eaves. Last summer we had a long run of hot days around the 40
deg C
or above mark and after a few days of this heat the ceiling insulation
becomes
overloaded by the stored superheated air in the roof space and it begins
to make
it very uncomfortable in the rooms below. I measured the air temperature
in the
roof space at 55deg C and I think it would be even hotter than that if I
had the
right measuring thermometer. Since I don't want to go down the
refrigerative air
conditioning path due to expense and power requirements, and there are
relatively few days when it is absolutely necessary, I am hopeful that by
evacuating the hot air and replacing it with cooler air from lower down
the
temperature in the rooms below will be cooler by several degrees C. For a
few
hundred $$$ it is worth a go.

Evaporative air conditioning has been used extensively in Australia mainly
in
the form of whole-of-house ducted systems (eg. Breezair etc). They are
cheap to
run and can be effective where humidity is low. Once relative humidity
gets
above 35% their efficiency declines rapidly (by approx 50% and more).
There are
portable evaporative units available but they are not really worthwhile
imo.
Many homes here have removed evap and installed refrigerative ducted ac..
Evap
should work well in Nevada and similar climates.

We opted against any sort of aircon, instead we bought a thing called
'silent breeze' over 25 years ago. It's a large electrically driven fan,
over a metre in diameter, which has been fitted into the ceiling of  a room
that's at the other end of the house from the sleeping area. At nighttime
when it cools down we open some windows and turn the fan on, it sucks cool
air into the entire house, and vents out through the tiled roof, exhausting
the heated air from the roofspace at the same time. For all but a handful of
horror periods of a few days through summer, it enables us to hold the
interior of the entire house to a thoroughly comfortable level day and
(particularly) night, there'd be few nights during summertime when we don't
have a blanket on the bed.

What is the humidity like in your area ?

Actually was surprised the difference it made in the workshop just
putting a 12" normal pedestal fan
in front of an open window, sucking in fresh air and making the so
you might be onto something here, as this goes
one better by blowing the hot air from the ceiling cavity also. Have
never heard of this setup before.

If it saves a few weeks of air con every year, then that is a
substantial cost benefit.

Removing the "stale" air from the room is another benefit, it can
start to smell after being closed on a hot day.

The thing has required zero maintenance throughout its entire life, and
total power is just the fan motor, way less than an aircon. Best investment
we've ever made IMHO.

 

[Joerg]

Noodnik wrote:

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:5phna61u59ph227bhjnuredg7824knh7hj@4ax.com...
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 09:48:53 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

:Ross Herbert wrote:
SNIP
:
:
:> Large retailers/companies whose enterprise relies heavily upon export
negotiate
:> with the various freight providers for special rates. If they care to
pass on
:> the freight savings to customers then buying goods from the other side
of the
:> continent can be wothwhile and you can even save money over a local
purchase
of
:> the same item. For smaller companies who don't have such economies of
scale
:> freighting items across the country can be expensive.
:
:> Australia has a population of only 22M so the possibility of buying
from
:> interstate at low freight costs are not usually the norm. For example,
I
:> recently wanted to buy a rooftop mounted, mains powered,
thermostatically
:> controlled roof space evacuation fan. None of the locally available
solar
:> powered items would do - they were all like high priced gimmicky toys.
I
:> couldn't find anyone in Western Australia who could supply what I was
after
so I
:> had to go interstate to NSW
:> http://www.skydome.com.au/images/pdf/ventillation_brochure.pdf
:
:> The manufacturer quoted me a cost of $90 in freight to have it sent
across
:> Australia from the east to the west (roughly the same distance as your
dog
food
:> purchase). ...
:
:
:Yikes! That's a rather small item. It seems to me that there must also
:be a large tax burden on freight in Australia. We also have sparesely
opulated areas like Nevada or nearly the whole midwest, areas where
:it's almost like every farmer has his own freeway exit.

When it comes to being sparsely populated anywhere west of Adelaide is
hard to
beat - and that takes in almost two-thirds of the land area of Australia.
Adelaide is 2793km by road from Perth and you might come across a man and
his
dog if your lucky. It's not quite that sparse, but you get the idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Australia

Ok, but I could imagine that a whole lot of people live in places like
Perth. That would be roughly the stretch of train track (or road train)
that our 100lbs worth of dog food was shipped. Once a truck or train car
is filled and rolling it doesn't matter whether it makes any stops on
the way. In fact, shippers would prefer that it doesn't.

:
:
:> ... And I dare say that this was a bit cheaper than if I had gone to
a
:> freight specialist locally and obtained a price to bring it across. One
off
:> freight costs for an individual customer are not cheap out here and
often are
:> more expensive going from west to east than the other way. It's all
about
:> economy of scale...
:
:
:If you bought the attic fan because of heat build-up in the house, ever
:thought about an evaporative cooler? I put in this one, broke through a
:wall and did a fixed installation, works like a charm:
:
:http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgt/R-100143013/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
:
:They had an Australian model as well but seem to have discontinued it
:after just a few months.

I have a 27 degree pitch corrugated colorbond roof
http://www.colorbond.com/
with sealed eaves. Last summer we had a long run of hot days around the 40
deg C
or above mark and after a few days of this heat the ceiling insulation
becomes
overloaded by the stored superheated air in the roof space and it begins
to make
it very uncomfortable in the rooms below. I measured the air temperature
in the
roof space at 55deg C and I think it would be even hotter than that if I
had the
right measuring thermometer. Since I don't want to go down the
refrigerative air
conditioning path due to expense and power requirements, and there are
relatively few days when it is absolutely necessary, I am hopeful that by
evacuating the hot air and replacing it with cooler air from lower down
the
temperature in the rooms below will be cooler by several degrees C. For a
few
hundred $$$ it is worth a go.

Evaporative air conditioning has been used extensively in Australia mainly
in
the form of whole-of-house ducted systems (eg. Breezair etc). They are
cheap to
run and can be effective where humidity is low. Once relative humidity
gets
above 35% their efficiency declines rapidly (by approx 50% and more).
There are
portable evaporative units available but they are not really worthwhile
imo.
Many homes here have removed evap and installed refrigerative ducted ac.

That's often because people become lazy. Evap coolers do require a fair
bit of maintenance and their construction quality, when compared to
refrigerated air units, is IMHO a bit on the flimsy side.

Evap
should work well in Nevada and similar climates.

We opted against any sort of aircon, instead we bought a thing called
'silent breeze' over 25 years ago. It's a large electrically driven fan,
over a metre in diameter, which has been fitted into the ceiling of a room
that's at the other end of the house from the sleeping area. At nighttime
when it cools down we open some windows and turn the fan on, it sucks cool
air into the entire house, and vents out through the tiled roof, exhausting
the heated air from the roofspace at the same time. For all but a handful of
horror periods of a few days through summer, it enables us to hold the
interior of the entire house to a thoroughly comfortable level day and
(particularly) night, there'd be few nights during summertime when we don't
have a blanket on the bed.

That's what we call a whole-house fan. But it does have the serious
downside that it sucks in dirt and pollen, right through the bug screens
of the doors that you must leave open. Not much fun for folks with
allergies. A pusher such as the evap cooler can be filtered easily.

The thing has required zero maintenance throughout its entire life, and
total power is just the fan motor, way less than an aircon. Best investment
we've ever made IMHO.

Same with our evap cooler. Best thing since the invention of pivot
irrigation

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.