How is this possible?

My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric

 

[KenW]

On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 13:08:15 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric
Ground in the house.

 

On Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:08:13 UTC+1, et...@whidbey.com wrote:

My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric

I'm guessing you're American from the phrasing. Here in UK neutral feeds often have multiple ground points.


NT

 

[Tom Biasi]

On 10/17/2019 4:08 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric

Are you sure the lower one is a neutral? Do you have 220 volts available?

 

[ehsjr]

On 10/17/2019 4:08 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric

The neutral wire is grounded at the power utility transformer,
typically at the pole on which the transformer is mounted.
At your house, the neutral wire from the transformer is connected
to the neutral bus in your circuit breaker/fuse panel. Inside
that panel there is a connection between the neutral bus and the
ground bus. That connection is required by the NEC (National
Electrical Code). The ground bus is also required to be connected
to the "electrode grounding system" - typically referred to by
homeowners as the "ground rod". So with a broken neutral wire
you still have a complete circuit from hot to the panel by the
unbroken wire, and from neutral at the transformer to ground,
through the ground to your "grounding electrode system" which
is connected inside your service panel to the ground AND the
neutral bus.

Ed

 

On Friday, 18 October 2019 06:06:32 UTC+1, ehsjr wrote:

On 10/17/2019 4:08 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric



The neutral wire is grounded at the power utility transformer,
typically at the pole on which the transformer is mounted.
At your house, the neutral wire from the transformer is connected
to the neutral bus in your circuit breaker/fuse panel. Inside
that panel there is a connection between the neutral bus and the
ground bus. That connection is required by the NEC (National
Electrical Code). The ground bus is also required to be connected
to the "electrode grounding system" - typically referred to by
homeowners as the "ground rod". So with a broken neutral wire
you still have a complete circuit from hot to the panel by the
unbroken wire, and from neutral at the transformer to ground,
through the ground to your "grounding electrode system" which
is connected inside your service panel to the ground AND the
neutral bus.

Ed

required in US yet not allowed in UK. Funny world


NT

 

On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 23:44:28 -0400, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>
wrote:

On 10/17/2019 4:08 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
My power comes from a line that is about 2000 feet long and my drop
comes from about the middle. It is just two wires, hot up high and
the neutral lower. About a month ago one of my trees took out the
neutral before my drop. Nevertheless I still had power. What gives?
Eric

Are you sure the lower one is a neutral? Do you have 220 volts available?

The top wire is 17,000 volts. The lower is the neutral. Both are tied
to a transformer that feeds my house and one across the street. The
neutral is also tied to a ground at the pole. There is at least one
pole before mine that has a wire going to ground from the neutral. And
yes, I did have 220 while the neutral wire was down. I am amazed that
the ground could work so well. Maybe it's because the ground here is
so wet.
Eric

 

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 10/18/2019 11:25 AM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

The top wire is 17,000 volts. The lower is the neutral. Both are tied
to a transformer that feeds my house and one across the street. The
neutral is also tied to a ground at the pole. There is at least one
pole before mine that has a wire going to ground from the neutral. And
yes, I did have 220 while the neutral wire was down.

That's pretty scary, actually. If the ground at the pole was broken, or
marginal, the primary would be grounded by your & your neighbor's
service ground rods. I.e., your service would be part of the 17,000
volt circuit. In the very worst case, if your grounds were broken, you
would have 17,000 volts on your houses' circuits, just waiting for a
path to ground.

----- 17,000 -----) (----- 240 ----
) (___.________ Neutral _____
) ( | |
X Neutral --+-) (---|--240 ---- |
|________| Gnd
|
Gnd

I am amazed that the ground could work so well. Maybe it's because the
ground here is so wet.
Eric

Part of it working so well is that most of the current in one leg
returns through the other leg. It's only the difference that returns
through the ground. E.g., if there were 10 amps of load on 1 leg and 12
on the other, only 2 amps would flow through the ground.

 

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 10/18/2019 12:41 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
....

----- 17,000 -----)  (----- 240 ----
                  )  (___.________ Neutral _____
                  )  (   |                      |
  X   Neutral --+-)  (---|--240 ----            |
                |________|                     Gnd
                |
                Gnd

Oops ... those "240" legs are really 120 each.

 

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:41:25 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 10/18/2019 11:25 AM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
The top wire is 17,000 volts. The lower is the neutral. Both are tied
to a transformer that feeds my house and one across the street. The
neutral is also tied to a ground at the pole. There is at least one
pole before mine that has a wire going to ground from the neutral. And
yes, I did have 220 while the neutral wire was down.

That's pretty scary, actually. If the ground at the pole was broken, or
marginal, the primary would be grounded by your & your neighbor's
service ground rods. I.e., your service would be part of the 17,000
volt circuit. In the very worst case, if your grounds were broken, you
would have 17,000 volts on your houses' circuits, just waiting for a
path to ground.

----- 17,000 -----) (----- 240 ----
) (___.________ Neutral _____
) ( | |
X Neutral --+-) (---|--240 ---- |
|________| Gnd
|
Gnd


I am amazed that the ground could work so well. Maybe it's because the
ground here is so wet.
Eric


Part of it working so well is that most of the current in one leg
returns through the other leg. It's only the difference that returns
through the ground. E.g., if there were 10 amps of load on 1 leg and 12
on the other, only 2 amps would flow through the ground.

When I first saw the line down I was leaving my place. I saw a cable
on the ground and thought it was a stay that broke. But then I looked
up and could see the neutral was broken, not a cable stay. When I
called PSE I told them I had a neutral line down. They told me to
treat it as if it was a live wire. I then said "Does that mean I
shouldn't lick my finger and touch it?". The woman I was talking to
just got silent for a couple beats and then repeated her admonition.
Eric

 

[Tom Biasi]

On 10/18/2019 4:14 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:41:25 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

On 10/18/2019 11:25 AM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
The top wire is 17,000 volts. The lower is the neutral. Both are tied
to a transformer that feeds my house and one across the street. The
neutral is also tied to a ground at the pole. There is at least one
pole before mine that has a wire going to ground from the neutral. And
yes, I did have 220 while the neutral wire was down.

That's pretty scary, actually. If the ground at the pole was broken, or
marginal, the primary would be grounded by your & your neighbor's
service ground rods. I.e., your service would be part of the 17,000
volt circuit. In the very worst case, if your grounds were broken, you
would have 17,000 volts on your houses' circuits, just waiting for a
path to ground.

----- 17,000 -----) (----- 240 ----
) (___.________ Neutral _____
) ( | |
X Neutral --+-) (---|--240 ---- |
|________| Gnd
|
Gnd


I am amazed that the ground could work so well. Maybe it's because the
ground here is so wet.
Eric
I then said "Does that mean I
shouldn't lick my finger and touch it?". The woman I was talking to
just got silent for a couple beats and then repeated her admonition.
Eric

Do you also joke with TSA at airports?

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

I am amazed that
the ground could work so well. Maybe it's because the ground here is
so wet.

Maybe for a while. But your voltage regulation is going to be poor. Power co
needs to come out and fix this.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
On a clear disk, you can seek forever.