How does this oscillator work?

G

greg

Guest
I have come across a design for an oscillator that, boiled
down to its essentials, has a configuration like this:

,--- VCC
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
'-'
|
|
.----UUU----o
| |
| |
--- |
--- |
| o--- Output
| |
| 22k |
| ___ |
o---|___|---o
| |
| |
| |/
'---------|
|>
|
|
'--- GND

But I can't see how it's supposed to work. The series LC
network from collector to base looks like it should be
providing negative feedback rather than positive!

(The full circuit is shown below, in case it makes any
difference. The frequency-determining capacitor is actually
a pair of varicap diodes used for frequency control.)

,--- VCC
|
|
C
C
C
|
|
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
390p '-'
|
|| |
,-----o----||-----UUU----o
| | || |
| V |
| - |
47k | - |
___ | | o--- Output
Control ---|___|----)-----o |
| | 22k |
| - ___ |
| - ---|___|---o
| ^ | |
.-. | | |
| | | | |/
47k | | '------o---------|
'-' |>
| |
| |
'------------------------o--- GND

--
Greg
 
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, greg wrote:

I have come across a design for an oscillator that, boiled
down to its essentials, has a configuration like this:

,--- VCC
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
'-'
|
|
.----UUU----o
| |
| |
--- |
--- |
| o--- Output
| |
| 22k |
| ___ |
o---|___|---o
| |
| |
| |/
'---------|
|
|
|
'--- GND

But I can't see how it's supposed to work. The series LC
network from collector to base looks like it should be
providing negative feedback rather than positive!

It looks like a Pierce oscillator I can't recall ever seeing one
Click to expand...
with an LC circuit, but it sure is common as a crystal oscillator
(the crystal has the capacitance and inductance in series). The
crystal provies the 180degree phase shift.

Michael

(The full circuit is shown below, in case it makes any
difference. The frequency-determining capacitor is actually
a pair of varicap diodes used for frequency control.)

,--- VCC
|
|
C
C
C
|
|
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
390p '-'
|
|| |
,-----o----||-----UUU----o
| | || |
| V |
| - |
47k | - |
___ | | o--- Output
Control ---|___|----)-----o |
| | 22k |
| - ___ |
| - ---|___|---o
| ^ | |
.-. | | |
| | | | |/
47k | | '------o---------|
'-' |
| |
| |
'------------------------o--- GND

--
Greg
Click to expand...
 
"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:pine.LNX.4.64.0908102258040.28126@darkstar.example.net...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, greg wrote:

I have come across a design for an oscillator that, boiled
down to its essentials, has a configuration like this:

,--- VCC
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
'-'
|
|
.----UUU----o
| |
| |
--- |
--- |
| o--- Output
| |
| 22k |
| ___ |
o---|___|---o
| |
| |
| |/
'---------|
|
|
|
'--- GND

But I can't see how it's supposed to work. The series LC
network from collector to base looks like it should be
providing negative feedback rather than positive!

It looks like a Pierce oscillator I can't recall ever seeing one
with an LC circuit, but it sure is common as a crystal oscillator
(the crystal has the capacitance and inductance in series). The
crystal provies the 180degree phase shift.

Michael

(The full circuit is shown below, in case it makes any
difference. The frequency-determining capacitor is actually
a pair of varicap diodes used for frequency control.)

,--- VCC
|
|
C
C
C
|
|
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
390p '-'
|
|| |
,-----o----||-----UUU----o
| | || |
| V |
| - |
47k | - |
___ | | o--- Output
Control ---|___|----)-----o |
| | 22k |
| - ___ |
| - ---|___|---o
| ^ | |
.-. | | |
| | | | |/
47k | | '------o---------|
'-' |
| |
| |
'------------------------o--- GND

--
Greg
Click to expand...
I don't think it is a Pierce circuit because in a Pierce, the resonator
(xtal) is between the collector and base providing the required addional 180
deg of phase shift. This circit has nothing but capacitance in that
position. So, where does the required phase shift come from? It looks
dubious to me, there must be more to it. Maybe the thing marked "UUU" is
supposed to be an xtal?
 
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Bob Eld wrote:

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:pine.LNX.4.64.0908102258040.28126@darkstar.example.net...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, greg wrote:

I have come across a design for an oscillator that, boiled
down to its essentials, has a configuration like this:

,--- VCC
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
'-'
|
|
.----UUU----o
| |
| |
--- |
--- |
| o--- Output
| |
| 22k |
| ___ |
o---|___|---o
| |
| |
| |/
'---------|
|
|
|
'--- GND

But I can't see how it's supposed to work. The series LC
network from collector to base looks like it should be
providing negative feedback rather than positive!

It looks like a Pierce oscillator I can't recall ever seeing one
with an LC circuit, but it sure is common as a crystal oscillator
(the crystal has the capacitance and inductance in series). The
crystal provies the 180degree phase shift.

Michael

(The full circuit is shown below, in case it makes any
difference. The frequency-determining capacitor is actually
a pair of varicap diodes used for frequency control.)

,--- VCC
|
|
C
C
C
|
|
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
390p '-'
|
|| |
,-----o----||-----UUU----o
| | || |
| V |
| - |
47k | - |
___ | | o--- Output
Control ---|___|----)-----o |
| | 22k |
| - ___ |
| - ---|___|---o
| ^ | |
.-. | | |
| | | | |/
47k | | '------o---------|
'-' |
| |
| |
'------------------------o--- GND

--
Greg


I don't think it is a Pierce circuit because in a Pierce, the resonator
(xtal) is between the collector and base providing the required addional 180
deg of phase shift. This circit has nothing but capacitance in that
position. So, where does the required phase shift come from? It looks
dubious to me, there must be more to it. Maybe the thing marked "UUU" is
supposed to be an xtal?
Click to expand...
He said the UUU was a coil, which is where I got the idea that it's an
inductor.

But after I posted, I wondered if it was a real circuit, or to represent
a circuit with a crystal. Like I said, I don't recall seeing a Pierce
oscillator with an LC network, but if someone was trying to explain
the circuit, they might represent the crystal as a coil and capacitor
in series.

Michael
 
"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:pine.LNX.4.64.0908121400370.30589@darkstar.example.net...
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Bob Eld wrote:

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:pine.LNX.4.64.0908102258040.28126@darkstar.example.net...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, greg wrote:

I have come across a design for an oscillator that, boiled
down to its essentials, has a configuration like this:

,--- VCC
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
'-'
|
|
.----UUU----o
| |
| |
--- |
--- |
| o--- Output
| |
| 22k |
| ___ |
o---|___|---o
| |
| |
| |/
'---------|
|
|
|
'--- GND

But I can't see how it's supposed to work. The series LC
network from collector to base looks like it should be
providing negative feedback rather than positive!

It looks like a Pierce oscillator I can't recall ever seeing one
with an LC circuit, but it sure is common as a crystal oscillator
(the crystal has the capacitance and inductance in series). The
crystal provies the 180degree phase shift.

Michael

(The full circuit is shown below, in case it makes any
difference. The frequency-determining capacitor is actually
a pair of varicap diodes used for frequency control.)

,--- VCC
|
|
C
C
C
|
|
|
.-.
| |
330 | |
390p '-'
|
|| |
,-----o----||-----UUU----o
| | || |
| V |
| - |
47k | - |
___ | | o--- Output
Control ---|___|----)-----o |
| | 22k |
| - ___ |
| - ---|___|---o
| ^ | |
.-. | | |
| | | | |/
47k | | '------o---------|
'-' |
| |
| |
'------------------------o--- GND

--
Greg


I don't think it is a Pierce circuit because in a Pierce, the resonator
(xtal) is between the collector and base providing the required addional
180
deg of phase shift. This circit has nothing but capacitance in that
position. So, where does the required phase shift come from? It looks
dubious to me, there must be more to it. Maybe the thing marked "UUU" is
supposed to be an xtal?


He said the UUU was a coil, which is where I got the idea that it's an
inductor.

But after I posted, I wondered if it was a real circuit, or to represent
a circuit with a crystal. Like I said, I don't recall seeing a Pierce
oscillator with an LC network, but if someone was trying to explain
the circuit, they might represent the crystal as a coil and capacitor
in series.
Click to expand...
This looks similar to an adjustable crystal oscillator:
http://www.patents.com/Fully-integrated-adjustable-oscillator-a-crystal/US4827226/en-US/

But perhaps the component in series with the collector, marked CCC, is also
a choke, and coupled to the one shown as UUU, which would make it something
like an Armstrong oscillator.

Paul
 
Michael Black wrote:

But after I posted, I wondered if it was a real circuit, or to represent
a circuit with a crystal.
Click to expand...
It's a real circuit, and there's definitely no crystal
in it anywhere.

The circuit is from a Mitel Semiconductor application note
titled "A Low Cost 1.5 to 2.2GHz Voltage Controlled
Oscillator":

http://www.g1sle.com/files/downloads/sp5070.pdf

My current theory is that it's actually a Colpitts, and
the feedback is provided by the collector-emitter and
base-emitter capacitances of the transistor (and maybe
any other stray capacitances that happen to be floating
around).

At those frequencies, it wouldn't be surprising if
such parasitic elements formed a vital part of the
circuit. The "coil" is actually specified as 0.5cm
of component lead!

--
Greg
 
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