horizontal bars that move vertically after capacitor change.

J

Jon Paterson

Guest
Hi there, please bear with me as I am not a TV engineer, just a
interested end user.


I have had problems recently with my Sony KV36-FS70 set that has had
to have Sony authorised engineers look at it.

To attempt to rectify another fault, they have replaced a capacitor on
the board with one of a different F value (if I have the correct
term?!). Since this has occured, there is noticable horizontal
"lines" close together (they are very thin) that move up and down in
waves. They do not move much, maybe a few cm or two.


It is worse when the set is turned on from cold, but gets better over
5 mins and stays at constant "movement" after this.


I have spoken with the repair chaps who did this and suggested that
they put the old one back in, but they say that this is the one that
Sony recommend as a "mod" (I do not know what this is meant to fix!)
I am having a bit of a battle with them now, as they do not seem
interested in fixing this "new" feature that they have given me I got
the impression that they do not know is going on. I could be wrong
but I think that the cap that was replaced was on a A board.


Can anyone more knowledgeable than me tell me if the change of a
capacitor is likely to cause this type of problem (horizontal lines up
and down in a vertical manner).


thanks for any advice!


regards,


Jon Paterson
 
What was the original fault ,this you failed to mention.
kip

--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Jon Paterson" <jpaterson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:79daac2d.0311260539.52dea6dd@posting.google.com...
Hi there, please bear with me as I am not a TV engineer, just a
interested end user.


I have had problems recently with my Sony KV36-FS70 set that has had
to have Sony authorised engineers look at it.

To attempt to rectify another fault, they have replaced a capacitor on
the board with one of a different F value (if I have the correct
term?!). Since this has occured, there is noticable horizontal
"lines" close together (they are very thin) that move up and down in
waves. They do not move much, maybe a few cm or two.


It is worse when the set is turned on from cold, but gets better over
5 mins and stays at constant "movement" after this.


I have spoken with the repair chaps who did this and suggested that
they put the old one back in, but they say that this is the one that
Sony recommend as a "mod" (I do not know what this is meant to fix!)
I am having a bit of a battle with them now, as they do not seem
interested in fixing this "new" feature that they have given me I got
the impression that they do not know is going on. I could be wrong
but I think that the cap that was replaced was on a A board.


Can anyone more knowledgeable than me tell me if the change of a
capacitor is likely to cause this type of problem (horizontal lines up
and down in a vertical manner).


thanks for any advice!


regards,


Jon Paterson
Click to expand...
 
This is a bit complicated. In what circuit was the cap changed? What was
the original fault? What was the function of the cap in the circuit?

I am sure the tech knows what he is doing. I have a suspicion that there
are other parts that are also defective from age, and they didn't see this
at the time of repair. Considering the age of the set, it is rare that you
would only have a simple cap to be changed without risk of other failures.

I would think you mean the term of microfarads for the description of the
cap. Depending on the circuit where it is out of, would determine the
tolerance of allowable change of value. Some circuits are very critical,
while others are not.

As for having a problem come on over a time period from when the set was
switched on, would be from something that has become thermo or temperature
sensitive. As the set is warming up, some part(s) are changing value.
These types of faults can be common in an aged set, and can require a fair
amount of time for a tech to locate. Once the defective parts are verified,
it is then usually easy to change them.

As for modifications, these companies do come out with mods for their
products to fix some problems from time to time. This is sort of like an
upgrade if you would compare it to software. Some of these mods will make
visible results to the end user. Others may have something to do with the
inner workings of the set, to make it run cooler, or be more reliable
against specific faults that some sets may have had in large enough numbers
to warrant the cost of issuing a mod.

If you are going to service a set, and you feel it is worth to keep, then
you might as well do what is necessary to make it work right. You must
consider that putting money in to an older set is a risk. It is something
like taking a car with a lot of mileage on it, and doing a lot of repairs.
It is difficult to predict the next thing that will go wrong. The set can
leave the shop working very well, and a few days or a few months later
something else can fail.

On the average, I found that if the set was properly serviced, and all the
possible faults were found at the time of service, it should go for at least
another few years. But, there is some aspects of luck here.



--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Jon Paterson" <jpaterson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:79daac2d.0311260539.52dea6dd@posting.google.com...
Hi there, please bear with me as I am not a TV engineer, just a
interested end user.


I have had problems recently with my Sony KV36-FS70 set that has had
to have Sony authorised engineers look at it.

To attempt to rectify another fault, they have replaced a capacitor on
the board with one of a different F value (if I have the correct
term?!). Since this has occured, there is noticable horizontal
"lines" close together (they are very thin) that move up and down in
waves. They do not move much, maybe a few cm or two.


It is worse when the set is turned on from cold, but gets better over
5 mins and stays at constant "movement" after this.


I have spoken with the repair chaps who did this and suggested that
they put the old one back in, but they say that this is the one that
Sony recommend as a "mod" (I do not know what this is meant to fix!)
I am having a bit of a battle with them now, as they do not seem
interested in fixing this "new" feature that they have given me I got
the impression that they do not know is going on. I could be wrong
but I think that the cap that was replaced was on a A board.


Can anyone more knowledgeable than me tell me if the change of a
capacitor is likely to cause this type of problem (horizontal lines up
and down in a vertical manner).


thanks for any advice!


regards,


Jon Paterson
 
In article <newscache$7hryoh$d5j$1@newsfeed.niagara.com>,
va3mmTAKEOUTTHIS@niagara.com says...
What was the original fault ,this you failed to mention.
kip


A popping noise when started "warm" (i.e off then on) - whilst trying to
Click to expand...
find this they managed to break something else (I now had moving
vertical lines - not horizontal) This is still outstanding but I know
what this is - the row of scart sockets have a bad connection, if you
move any of the cables down slightly the vertical bars appear, I guess
there is just a bad connection.


----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
 
From Jerry (email)


This is a bit complicated. In what circuit was the cap changed? What
was
the original fault? What was the function of the cap in the circuit?

I am sure the tech knows what he is doing. I have a suspicion that
there
are other parts that are also defective from age, and they didn't see
this
at the time of repair. Considering the age of the set, it is rare that
you
would only have a simple cap to be changed without risk of other
failures.

I would think you mean the term of microfarads for the description of
the
cap. Depending on the circuit where it is out of, would determine the
tolerance of allowable change of value. Some circuits are very critical,
while others are not.

As for having a problem come on over a time period from when the set was
switched on, would be from something that has become thermo or
temperature
sensitive. As the set is warming up, some part(s) are changing value.
These types of faults can be common in an aged set, and can require a
fair
amount of time for a tech to locate. Once the defective parts are
verified,
it is then usually easy to change them.

As for modifications, these companies do come out with mods for their
products to fix some problems from time to time. This is sort of like an
upgrade if you would compare it to software. Some of these mods will
make
visible results to the end user. Others may have something to do with
the
inner workings of the set, to make it run cooler, or be more reliable
against specific faults that some sets may have had in large enough
numbers
to warrant the cost of issuing a mod.

If you are going to service a set, and you feel it is worth to keep,
then
you might as well do what is necessary to make it work right. You must
consider that putting money in to an older set is a risk. It is
something
like taking a car with a lot of mileage on it, and doing a lot of
repairs.
It is difficult to predict the next thing that will go wrong. The set
can
leave the shop working very well, and a few days or a few months later
something else can fail.

On the average, I found that if the set was properly serviced, and all
the
possible faults were found at the time of service, it should go for at
least
another few years. But, there is some aspects of luck here.






----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
 
Hi there Jerry, I think you are a bit out of my league here! I am not
sure where or what the cap was or its purpose. I got the feeling that
you felt the set was old, it is only 2.5 years old!


The problem is bad at the set startup from cold (very large horizontal
"waves" moving in a slower vertical motion) within a few mins the waves
become closer together before they become tight lines and they stay like
this. The lines are harder to notice when the set is warm, you only see
it when there is a lighter background that is not moving a lot (cartoons
etc...)



In article <bq32ta$dtk$1@news.eusc.inter.net>, jerryg50@hotmail.com
says...
This is a bit complicated. In what circuit was the cap changed? What was
the original fault? What was the function of the cap in the circuit?

I am sure the tech knows what he is doing. I have a suspicion that there
are other parts that are also defective from age, and they didn't see this
at the time of repair. Considering the age of the set, it is rare that you
would only have a simple cap to be changed without risk of other failures.

I would think you mean the term of microfarads for the description of the
cap. Depending on the circuit where it is out of, would determine the
tolerance of allowable change of value. Some circuits are very critical,
while others are not.

As for having a problem come on over a time period from when the set was
switched on, would be from something that has become thermo or temperature
sensitive. As the set is warming up, some part(s) are changing value.
These types of faults can be common in an aged set, and can require a fair
amount of time for a tech to locate. Once the defective parts are verified,
it is then usually easy to change them.

As for modifications, these companies do come out with mods for their
products to fix some problems from time to time. This is sort of like an
upgrade if you would compare it to software. Some of these mods will make
visible results to the end user. Others may have something to do with the
inner workings of the set, to make it run cooler, or be more reliable
against specific faults that some sets may have had in large enough numbers
to warrant the cost of issuing a mod.

If you are going to service a set, and you feel it is worth to keep, then
you might as well do what is necessary to make it work right. You must
consider that putting money in to an older set is a risk. It is something
like taking a car with a lot of mileage on it, and doing a lot of repairs.
It is difficult to predict the next thing that will go wrong. The set can
leave the shop working very well, and a few days or a few months later
something else can fail.

On the average, I found that if the set was properly serviced, and all the
possible faults were found at the time of service, it should go for at least
another few years. But, there is some aspects of luck here.
Click to expand...

----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
 
This still sounds like temperature sensitive parts. I was under the
impression that the set was about 5 years of age or more. For a 2.5 year
old set, you should not be having these problems!

By your description now, I would tend to think that there are some bad caps
in the power supply, or in the horiz scan output or secondary side. The tech
should be able to find these with an ESR meter, if this is so. It is common
that caps go temperature sensitive, and change characteristics with
temperature. I have seen this on new sets, but very rare. But, anything can
fail.

You should show this comment to the tech when he comes back. Did you take
an extended warranty? I always recommend one, because any TV set or
appliance can fail at any time.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Jon Paterson" <jpaterson@removehere!.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a2f28a9d6434e1c98968d@spamkiller.usenet.com...
Hi there Jerry, I think you are a bit out of my league here! I am not
sure where or what the cap was or its purpose. I got the feeling that
you felt the set was old, it is only 2.5 years old!


The problem is bad at the set startup from cold (very large horizontal
"waves" moving in a slower vertical motion) within a few mins the waves
become closer together before they become tight lines and they stay like
this. The lines are harder to notice when the set is warm, you only see
it when there is a lighter background that is not moving a lot (cartoons
etc...)



In article <bq32ta$dtk$1@news.eusc.inter.net>, jerryg50@hotmail.com
says...
This is a bit complicated. In what circuit was the cap changed? What was
the original fault? What was the function of the cap in the circuit?

I am sure the tech knows what he is doing. I have a suspicion that there
are other parts that are also defective from age, and they didn't see this
at the time of repair. Considering the age of the set, it is rare that you
would only have a simple cap to be changed without risk of other failures.

I would think you mean the term of microfarads for the description of the
cap. Depending on the circuit where it is out of, would determine the
tolerance of allowable change of value. Some circuits are very critical,
while others are not.

As for having a problem come on over a time period from when the set was
switched on, would be from something that has become thermo or temperature
sensitive. As the set is warming up, some part(s) are changing value.
These types of faults can be common in an aged set, and can require a fair
amount of time for a tech to locate. Once the defective parts are
verified,
it is then usually easy to change them.

As for modifications, these companies do come out with mods for their
products to fix some problems from time to time. This is sort of like an
upgrade if you would compare it to software. Some of these mods will make
visible results to the end user. Others may have something to do with the
inner workings of the set, to make it run cooler, or be more reliable
against specific faults that some sets may have had in large enough
numbers
to warrant the cost of issuing a mod.

If you are going to service a set, and you feel it is worth to keep, then
you might as well do what is necessary to make it work right. You must
consider that putting money in to an older set is a risk. It is something
like taking a car with a lot of mileage on it, and doing a lot of repairs.
It is difficult to predict the next thing that will go wrong. The set can
leave the shop working very well, and a few days or a few months later
something else can fail.

On the average, I found that if the set was properly serviced, and all the
possible faults were found at the time of service, it should go for at
least
another few years. But, there is some aspects of luck here.
Click to expand...

----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---
 
Jon the best thing to do is call back the Tech
explain to him the problem and get him to
come back and do the repair.

kip



--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Jon Paterson" <jpaterson@removehere!.bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a2f1f051dcf49aa98968b@spamkiller.usenet.com...
In article <newscache$7hryoh$d5j$1@newsfeed.niagara.com>,
va3mmTAKEOUTTHIS@niagara.com says...
What was the original fault ,this you failed to mention.
kip


A popping noise when started "warm" (i.e off then on) - whilst trying to
find this they managed to break something else (I now had moving
vertical lines - not horizontal) This is still outstanding but I know
what this is - the row of scart sockets have a bad connection, if you
move any of the cables down slightly the vertical bars appear, I guess
there is just a bad connection.


----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---
Click to expand...
 
In article <bq36of$f02$2@news.eusc.inter.net>, jerryg50@hotmail.com
says...
This still sounds like temperature sensitive parts. I was under the
impression that the set was about 5 years of age or more. For a 2.5 year
old set, you should not be having these problems!

By your description now, I would tend to think that there are some bad caps
in the power supply, or in the horiz scan output or secondary side. The tech
should be able to find these with an ESR meter, if this is so. It is common
that caps go temperature sensitive, and change characteristics with
temperature. I have seen this on new sets, but very rare. But, anything can
fail.

You should show this comment to the tech when he comes back. Did you take
an extended warranty? I always recommend one, because any TV set or
appliance can fail at any time.
Click to expand...

I certainly did take an extended warranty - this is what has come out of
it!


----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
 
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