HOJO Motor

[sparky]

Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:21:29 -0800, sparky wrote:

Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without it
being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything other
than the scam it appears to be ?

"Send us money for plans -- we promise we won't be around when things
don't work out and you come after us".

Oh gosh -- that's just got to be on the up-and-up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

 

[fungus]

On Jan 15, 7:21 pm, sparky <sparky...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone seen one of these actually work ?    There  are many people
who say they  work but no one has ever seen  a working model without
it being attached to  some remote power source.

Possible clue...?

Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

No.

 

[fungus]

On Jan 15, 8:28 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.please> wrote:

Oh gosh -- that's just got to be on the up-and-up.

How can people possibly see things like this:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/08/the_large_hadron_collider.html

....then imagine some guy in a garage with a couple
of magnets knows more than the people who built that?

Beats me.

 

[Chiron]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:21:29 -0800, sparky wrote:

Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without it
being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything other
than the scam it appears to be ?

My BS meter pinned out when I looked into this. If it's not a scam, I'll
just levitate on over and admit it in person.

The blurb I read (hojomotorreviewz.com) claimed:

"The Hojo motor system meets all the compliance requirement(US patent
office) and it is a bullet prove system that work!"

This not only makes no sense (the US Patent Office doesn't enforce
compliance of systems), but it is written in poor English. The author
calls himself Eric Carlson, which sounds pretty "American" - but maybe
English isn't his first language.

"It’s a quiet perpetual motion generator with zero pollution and
definitely help to reduce carbon footprint and benefit the environment!"

So it's not a perpetual motion *machine*, it's a perpetual motion
*generator*. Last I heard, the USPO had a policy of not accepting any
plans for perpetual motion machines. No clue whether this policy applies
to generators as well.

When I was a kid I had a catalog for magic tricks. They had one where
you put a dollar in a drawer and close it. Open it up, and you'd get $5
out. I though all I'd ever need was a magic drawer like that, put in a
dollar when I needed money, get five bucks out. Of course, it was a
trick.

I think this is the same idea. Put in one joule, get two (or ten) back.
Sounds great, but you (should) know there's always a trick behind it.
Magic isn't real. Science isn't magic.

--
Don't put off for tomorrow what you can do today because if you enjoy it
today,
you can do it again tomorrow.

--
<jgoerzen> doogie: you sound highly unstable
<Knghtbrd> jgoerzen - he is.
* doogie bops Knghtbrd
<Knghtbrd> see? Resorting to violence =D

 

[fungus]

On Jan 15, 10:35 pm, Chiron <chiron...@gmail.com> wrote:

"It’s a quiet perpetual motion generator

LOL.

The thing in their video was anything but quiet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dykQILlo1aI

 

[Chiron]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 14:02:01 -0800, fungus wrote:

On Jan 15, 10:35 pm, Chiron <chiron...@gmail.com> wrote:

"It’s a quiet perpetual motion generator


LOL.

The thing in their video was anything but quiet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dykQILlo1aI

Wow, you're not kidding. Their neighbors are going to complain...

What really bothers me about this free-energy, scientists-don't-know-what-
they're-talking-about stuff, is that when I point out the obvious flaws
in the "theories" I am seen as just another part of the hidebound
scientific establishment, too rigid to see the beauty of the new ideas,
blah-blah-blah. Kind of makes me wonder why I ever bothered learning any
of this stuff. I think I'm beginning to understand why they say
ignorance is bliss. Some of these guys must be absolutely ecstatic.

I just learned of the Dunning-Kruger effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect). It explains a lot...

--
I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race,
in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals.
-- Thoreau

 

[fungus]

On Jan 16, 12:36 am, Chiron <chiron...@gmail.com> wrote:

What really bothers me about this free-energy, scientists-don't-know-what-
they're-talking-about stuff, is that when I point out the obvious flaws
in the "theories" I am seen as just another part of the hidebound
scientific establishment, too rigid to see the beauty of the new ideas,
blah-blah-blah.

I wonder if 'sparky' has listened to anything said
in this thread...

One more comedy gem I found when I googled
for "hojo motor":

http://pesn.com/2011/10/04/9501926_Letter_to_Hojo_Motor_Plan_Scammers/

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-01-15, sparky <sparky12x@yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

from their website:

* FACT #1: The United States Patent and Trademark Office awarded
the “HoJo Motor” 3 U.S. Patents for being the ONLY working “free
energy device” ever invented that actually produces free electricity
out of thin air!

That's obviously a lie, the USPTO is not in the business of verifying
engineering.

If they're goin to start out by lying there's no point investigating any further.
someone may wish to draw USPTO's attention to this abuse of their name.



--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On 16 Jan 2012 10:02:15 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2012-01-15, sparky <sparky12x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

from their website:

* FACT #1: The United States Patent and Trademark Office awarded
the “HoJo Motor” 3 U.S. Patents for being the ONLY working “free
energy device” ever invented that actually produces free electricity
out of thin air!

That's obviously a lie, the USPTO is not in the business of verifying
engineering.

That's not so much true, in this case. There are special rules for "perpetual
motion" patents.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/10/11/the-patent-law-of-perpetual-motion/id=19828/

When repealing known laws of the universe, in particular thermodynamics,
"proof" is required.

If they're goin to start out by lying there's no point investigating any further.
someone may wish to draw USPTO's attention to this abuse of their name.

 

[P E Schoen]

krw wrote in message news:d8g8h71vhhpcpsqkun4s7guocujh4ll91g@4ax.com...

That's not so much true, in this case. There are special rules for
"perpetual
motion" patents.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/10/11/the-patent-law-of-perpetual-motion/id=19828/

When repealing known laws of the universe, in particular thermodynamics,
"proof" is required.

Here are some links that refer to the details and actual patents. Even the
first, "Pure Energy Systems", indicates that the device was to be
demonstrated to the USPTO (by a YouTuber) but later found to be a hoax.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Howard_Johnson
http://www.rexresearch.com/johnson/1johnson.htm

The actual patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4151431.PN.&OS=PN/4151431&RS=PN/4151431

Part of the patent says that the device requires superconducting materials,
and since this requires the use of refrigeration equipment it is doubtful
that any "over unity" phenomenon will be produced if this is taken into
account. But the patent seems to further assert that powerful magnets
exhibit a sort of "room temperature superconductivity" in the sense that the
magnetic field is caused by electron flow which continues perpetually, and
the resultant magnetic field can be made to do work. I would only accept
that perhaps energy could be derived from a permanent magnet IFF the magnet
would weaken as a result, thus conserving energy and mass. How much energy
difference between a strong magnet and one that has been demagnetized is the
critical factor that would determine if this phenomenon has any practical
application.

I also found one youtube video where someone demonstrated the effect using a
low friction rotary table having magnets arranged about the periphery, and
he showed how he could get it to spin by holding another magnet nearby and
just flipping the N-S poles at appropriate points in the rotation. But it
would never work if he did not add that energy to the system, and there is
no way the spinning disk could be connected to any means of doing so
automagically without extracting energy and eventually stopping.

Paul

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2012-01-16, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On 16 Jan 2012 10:02:15 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2012-01-15, sparky <sparky12x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

from their website:

* FACT #1: The United States Patent and Trademark Office awarded
the ?HoJo Motor? 3 U.S. Patents for being the ONLY working ?free
energy device? ever invented that actually produces free electricity
out of thin air!

That's obviously a lie, the USPTO is not in the business of verifying
engineering.

That's not so much true, in this case. There are special rules for "perpetual
motion" patents.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/10/11/the-patent-law-of-perpetual-motion/id=19828/

When repealing known laws of the universe, in particular thermodynamics,
"proof" is required.

None of the patents actually make any claim about producing energy out of
nothing. The oldest one from 1978 comes the closest. Possibly, the USPTO
had a more relaxed attitude at that time, more than thirty years ago.

I was specifically responding to Jasen's assertion that "the USPTO is not in
the business of verifying engineering". In the case of perpetual motion, or
refutations to the accepted laws of nature, it actually is. The fact that
they got a patent on something is besides the point.

 

[Kaz Kylheku]

On 2012-01-16, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On 16 Jan 2012 10:02:15 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2012-01-15, sparky <sparky12x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

from their website:

* FACT #1: The United States Patent and Trademark Office awarded
the “HoJo Motor” 3 U.S. Patents for being the ONLY working “free
energy device” ever invented that actually produces free electricity
out of thin air!

That's obviously a lie, the USPTO is not in the business of verifying
engineering.

That's not so much true, in this case. There are special rules for "perpetual
motion" patents.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/10/11/the-patent-law-of-perpetual-motion/id=19828/

When repealing known laws of the universe, in particular thermodynamics,
"proof" is required.

None of the patents actually make any claim about producing energy out of
nothing. The oldest one from 1978 comes the closest. Possibly, the USPTO
had a more relaxed attitude at that time, more than thirty years ago.

It makes vague, carefully stated allusions to perpetual motion (propulsion
forces generated by permanent magnets). It's no explicitly stated that the
invention is a perpetual motion machine, and no claim is made that energy can
be extracted from the process which occurs in the apparatus. I.e. it is never
actually stated that you can set this machine in motion, and it will keep
moving forever.

The website lies by connecting irrelevant patents to the claims with respect to
the product being advertized: patents for something other than energy
harvesting are being falsely connected to a product advertized as harvesting
energy.

This is intended to make customers out of ignorant simpletons who can't make
sense out of a (pseudo-) scientific document.

Who cares; more "power" the guy, ahem.

 

[fungus]

On Jan 16, 7:10 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:

I would only accept
that perhaps energy could be derived from a permanent magnet IFF the magnet
would weaken as a result, thus conserving energy and mass. How much energy
difference between a strong magnet and one that has been demagnetized is the
critical factor that would determine if this phenomenon has any practical
application.

You can be sure that the energy needed to re-magnetize
the magnets will be more than you got out of them inside
the machine.

I also found one youtube video where someone demonstrated the effect using a
low friction rotary table having magnets arranged about the periphery, and
he showed how he could get it to spin by holding another magnet nearby and
just flipping the N-S poles at appropriate points in the rotation. But it
would never work if he did not add that energy to the system, and there is
no way the spinning disk could be connected to any means of doing so
automagically without extracting energy and eventually stopping.

I'm not sure what you're saying there...

The only 'effect' he's demonstrating is a type
of magnetic motor where the energy input is
via an external rotating magnet.

A/C electric motors work on exactly this principle.
Just replace the magnet he's holding in his hand
with an electromagnet. The magnetic polarity will
flip north-south at mains frequency and spin the
disk (assuming you space the magnets on the
disk correctly).

 

[Kaz Kylheku]

On 2012-01-16, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2012-01-16, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On 16 Jan 2012 10:02:15 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2012-01-15, sparky <sparky12x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

from their website:

* FACT #1: The United States Patent and Trademark Office awarded
the ?HoJo Motor? 3 U.S. Patents for being the ONLY working ?free
energy device? ever invented that actually produces free electricity
out of thin air!

That's obviously a lie, the USPTO is not in the business of verifying
engineering.

That's not so much true, in this case. There are special rules for "perpetual
motion" patents.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/10/11/the-patent-law-of-perpetual-motion/id=19828/

When repealing known laws of the universe, in particular thermodynamics,
"proof" is required.

None of the patents actually make any claim about producing energy out of
nothing. The oldest one from 1978 comes the closest. Possibly, the USPTO
had a more relaxed attitude at that time, more than thirty years ago.

I was specifically responding to Jasen's assertion that "the USPTO is not in
the business of verifying engineering". In the case of perpetual motion, or
refutations to the accepted laws of nature, it actually is. The fact that
they got a patent on something is besides the point.

That is all besides the point of the discussion of the HOJO motor, if the
patents being cited (no matter how much or how little merit they carry) are not
actually the basis for the product being peddled.

The USPTO is an intellectually banrkupt institution which ruins its credibility
by granting patents on obvious software processes, like using the XOR operation
to draw a shape on a raster display with inverted colors relative to the
background and then XOR again to remove it.

Rock guitarist Eddie Van Halen holds a US patent on some stupid hinged wooden
board that you can attach to the back of an electric guitar to prop it against
your leg to make the fingerboard horizontal, for two-handed fretting,
and fold it down for normal play. Yep, that's a patent! #4656917

That there is a patent on something carries no assurance that it has any merit.
Granting means nothing, but on the other hand rejecting means something. If an
application is rejected it means that it is so ridiculous that complete morons
were able to see through it.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 20:46:18 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2012-01-16, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> wrote:

On 2012-01-16, krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On 16 Jan 2012 10:02:15 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2012-01-15, sparky <sparky12x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone seen one of these actually work ? There are many people
who say they work but no one has ever seen a working model without
it being attached to some remote power source. Is it anything
other than the scam it appears to be ?

from their website:

* FACT #1: The United States Patent and Trademark Office awarded
the ?HoJo Motor? 3 U.S. Patents for being the ONLY working ?free
energy device? ever invented that actually produces free electricity
out of thin air!

That's obviously a lie, the USPTO is not in the business of verifying
engineering.

That's not so much true, in this case. There are special rules for "perpetual
motion" patents.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2011/10/11/the-patent-law-of-perpetual-motion/id=19828/

When repealing known laws of the universe, in particular thermodynamics,
"proof" is required.

None of the patents actually make any claim about producing energy out of
nothing. The oldest one from 1978 comes the closest. Possibly, the USPTO
had a more relaxed attitude at that time, more than thirty years ago.

I was specifically responding to Jasen's assertion that "the USPTO is not in
the business of verifying engineering". In the case of perpetual motion, or
refutations to the accepted laws of nature, it actually is. The fact that
they got a patent on something is besides the point.

That is all besides the point of the discussion of the HOJO motor, if the
patents being cited (no matter how much or how little merit they carry) are not
actually the basis for the product being peddled.

It might be, but that was what I was disagreeing with.

The USPTO is an intellectually banrkupt institution which ruins its credibility
by granting patents on obvious software processes, like using the XOR operation
to draw a shape on a raster display with inverted colors relative to the
background and then XOR again to remove it.

Speakign of irrelevant to the discussion!

Rock guitarist Eddie Van Halen holds a US patent on some stupid hinged wooden
board that you can attach to the back of an electric guitar to prop it against
your leg to make the fingerboard horizontal, for two-handed fretting,
and fold it down for normal play. Yep, that's a patent! #4656917

Your point?

That there is a patent on something carries no assurance that it has any merit.

Subjective.

Granting means nothing, but on the other hand rejecting means something. If an
application is rejected it means that it is so ridiculous that complete morons
were able to see through it.

More likely that there was no new art taught.