hissing sound coming from behind woofer on one side AR11

[Amanda Ripanykhazov]

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

 

[GregS]

In article <fe92a44c-5b5f-4e6d-aa00-d46fe01e48b8@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzaluni@googlemail.com> wrote:

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

Looks like a closed box and my first thought is an leak. Don't understand"behind woofer"
Inside ?? Outside ?? Or sounds like behind woofer from the front.

I would troubleshoot a woofer with low frequency test tones, without
any high frequencies being generated. I used to do a quick test with AM radio.

Changing frequency will likely change the sound. Get close, feel around.
Can't tell from your description, but could be the woofer itself making
mechanical surround, voice coil, or suspension sounds.

greg

 

[William Sommerwerck]

If the AR11 were a ducted-port speaker (I don't think it is), it would
likely be the "port noise complaint" (OUCH!), with air "rushing" or
"whistling" through the port.

It's hard to believe the sound /is/ coming from the speaker when you say "it
isn't related to the music or any movement of the cone or any signal put
through it". Speakers are passive, and do not produce sounds on their own --
other than, perhaps, loud crashing/breaking noises when they're knocked off
a shelf.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:57:56 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Make sure a snake hasn't crawled behind the speaker.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/201963991_64a75623ae.jpg

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:30:48 -0700, Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone or
any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is put
through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals put
through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would imagine
that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty by now

Make sure a snake hasn't crawled behind the speaker.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Reverend Fuzzy"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.


..... Phil

 

[Reverend Fuzzy]

On Jul 20, 2:30 pm, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzal...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular:  It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control.  Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely).  This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

 

[Jim Adney]

On Jul 20, 2:30 pm, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzal...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular:  It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control.  Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

My guess is that the suspension for the woofer cone has come unglued.
This can allow the voice coil to rub on the magnet, which makes sounds
that are mechanical and vary with volume.

To check for this, you'll need to remove the grill cloth so you can
get to the speakers. Gently press all five fingers of one hand against
the woofer cone, next to the center dome. Push sideways on the cone;
try several directions. It should not want to move. It may be useful
to do this on both speaker (stereo, right?) so you can be sure of any
differences.

You may see that the "surround" has disintegrated. That would be an
obvious flaw. There is also a lower support called a spider which
centers the cone near its small end. If the spider has come unglued,
it can be reglued while holding the cone centered.

Older AR speakers used wirewound controls for the tone controls. These
corrode and lose contact. The effect of this is to lose the midrange
or tweeter completely. They can be disassembled and cleaned, but they
don't tend to make extra noises. The capacitors in decent speaker
crossovers are never electrolytics, so they don't generally
deteriorate over time.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Jim Adney"


You may see that the "surround" has disintegrated.

** Happens to ALL speakers made with foam surrounds - like the AR11.


That would be an obvious flaw.

** Obvious only if you look, the OP must be blind.


If the spider has come unglued,

** Very unlikely.


Older AR speakers used wirewound controls for the tone controls.

** Not the AR 11 - it uses a switch.

The capacitors in decent speaker
crossovers are never electrolytics,


** Fraid that is just not true.

Most famous brand name hi-fi speakers use bi-polar electros for the larger
values at least.



..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Reverend Fuzzy"
"Phil Allison"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.

Not half as bizarre as your instant flaming of something I have seen
happen in my personal experience.

** What you wrote here is bizarre crap.

What you might have seen elsewhere at sometime is another matter.


If you haven't seen it, yourself,


** Your post here is bizarre crap.

Electros used in hi-fi speakers like the AR11 do not "over heat" and hence
are not the source of peculiar hissing noises.

Ever worked on an AR11??

I have.


..... Phil

 

[Reverend Fuzzy]

On Jul 20, 6:46 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Reverend Fuzzy"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.

....  Phil

Not half as bizarre as your instant flaming of something I have seen
happen in my personal experience. If you haven't seen it, yourself,
don't just call my answer crap... PROVE it can't happen.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The capacitors in decent speaker crossovers are never
electrolytics, so they don't generally deteriorate over time.

Never? I haven't checked "decent" speakers lately, but the AR11 is from an
era when non-polar electrolytics were commonly used. Even inexpensive Mylar
caps cost more than electrolytics.

The tendency toward two-way designs (the AR11 is three-way) has raised the
crossover point to a frequency that makes the use of a film cap
more-practical. But even "the" classic two-way speaker (The Advent Speaker)
used an electrolytic.

The DQ-10 was one of the first speakers to use film caps. The original
version used mostly electrolytics; the changeover occurred several years
into production. In exchange for loaning him a pair of Pearl mics, Jon sent
me a box of cheap Mexican Mylar caps, and I repopulated the crossovers. I
was in such a rush to get it all done, that I didn't leave one of my four
DQ-10s unmodded, and wasn't able to make a valid comparison.

I /was/ going to suggest a mechanical problem with the woofer or midrange,
but the OP /specifically stated/ that the hissing sound had no relationship
with what was playing, or how loud it was, or /any movement of the cone/.

 

[PeterD]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:38:52 -0700 (PDT), Reverend Fuzzy
<cmayeux@msbministries.org> wrote:

On Jul 20, 6:46 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Reverend Fuzzy"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.

....  Phil

Not half as bizarre as your instant flaming of something I have seen
happen in my personal experience. If you haven't seen it, yourself,
don't just call my answer crap... PROVE it can't happen.

And you've seen electrolitics in cross-overs overheating and hissing?
I'm with Phil on this one...

 

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:46:59 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"Reverend Fuzzy"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an electrolytic
capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.

Can't say I've heard an x-over cap his but I've seen them over heat as
evidenced by broken and distored shrink wrap covering .

 

[Arfa Daily]

"PeterD" <peter2@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:1pmd4697b29f0tobe6pp2eac5g1jag4u71@4ax.com...

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:38:52 -0700 (PDT), Reverend Fuzzy
cmayeux@msbministries.org> wrote:

On Jul 20, 6:46 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Reverend Fuzzy"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.

.... Phil

Not half as bizarre as your instant flaming of something I have seen
happen in my personal experience. If you haven't seen it, yourself,
don't just call my answer crap... PROVE it can't happen.

And you've seen electrolitics in cross-overs overheating and hissing?
I'm with Phil on this one...

For once, so am I, although oddly enough, just today I had a non-polarised
electro in the crossover of a JVC home cinema speaker, that had bulged so
badly that it had split open. I suppose that when the can actually ruptured,
it might have hissed for a few microseconds ...

Arfa

 

[Amanda Ripanykhazov]

On Jul 20, 9:01 pm, Jim Adney <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote:

On Jul 20, 2:30 pm, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzal...@googlemail.com
wrote:

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular:  It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control.  Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

My guess is that the suspension for the woofer cone has come unglued.
This can allow the voice coil to rub on the magnet, which makes sounds
that are mechanical and vary with volume.

To check for this, you'll need to remove the grill cloth so you can
get to the speakers. Gently press all five fingers of one hand against
the woofer cone, next to the center dome. Push sideways on the cone;
try several directions. It should not want to move. It may be useful
to do this on both speaker (stereo, right?) so you can be sure of any
differences.

You may see that the "surround" has disintegrated. That would be an
obvious flaw. There is also a lower support called a spider which
centers the cone near its small end. If the spider has come unglued,
it can be reglued while holding the cone centered.

Older AR speakers used wirewound controls for the tone controls. These
corrode and lose contact. The effect of this is to lose the midrange
or tweeter completely. They can be disassembled and cleaned, but they
don't tend to make extra noises. The capacitors in decent speaker
crossovers are never electrolytics, so they don't generally
deteriorate over time.

I dont know why but the first thing I tried was pushing the cone in to
see if I could identify that rasping effect when a speaker has blown.
Dont know why I did this as the speaker has obviously not blown (the
bass is still quite good. And for some reason I have never
understood, the surrounds in those old speakers aren't made of rubber
which disintegrates so that isnt a problem) in that way but what I
didnt try was to push eccentrically and see if there was any
resistance.

I suspect I am going to have to get them over to Miller Sound at some
time to rebuild (along with a pair of AR3s I have which have badly
corroded cross-overs) but what I was wondering was whether this sound
was likely to make the speaker terminal.

Incidentally the snake behind the woofer is the best description of
what I can actually hear! (a snake with a volume control, that is)

 

[Phil Allison]

"Amanda Ripanykhazov"


And for some reason I have never
understood, the surrounds in those old speakers aren't made of rubber
which disintegrates so that isnt a problem

** The AR11 woofer has a FOAM surround - all foam surrounds disintegrate
after about 10 to 20 years.

Most woofers made these days use rubber (aka roll) surrounds which have an
indefinite life excepting the odd case of adhesive failure.



..... Phil

 

[bz]

Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

I know it is a silly question, but are you SURE that the hiss isn't
coming out of your amplifier?
(have you put a scope on the speaker lines or substituted either speaker
or amp?)

From your description, it isn't clear to me that you have eliminated the
'more obvious' possibility that your amplifier is putting out white
noise, perhaps intermittently varying in amplitude.

 

[Amanda Ripanykhazov]

On Jul 24, 7:21 am, bz <WQAHBGMXS...@spammotel.com> wrote:

Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:
Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular:  It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control.  Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely).  This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

I know it is a silly question, but are you SURE that the hiss isn't
coming out of your amplifier?
(have you put a scope on the speaker lines or substituted either speaker
or amp?)

 From your description, it isn't clear to me that you have eliminated the
'more obvious' possibility that your amplifier is putting out white
noise, perhaps intermittently varying in amplitude.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, switching one speaker pretty much solved that one.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Amanda Ripanykhazov" <dmanzaluni@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:8f36b444-2b05-4f98-85e1-d79583ce9c63@g19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

On Jul 24, 7:21 am, bz <WQAHBGMXS...@spammotel.com> wrote:
Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:
Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

I know it is a silly question, but are you SURE that the hiss isn't
coming out of your amplifier?
(have you put a scope on the speaker lines or substituted either speaker
or amp?)

From your description, it isn't clear to me that you have eliminated the
'more obvious' possibility that your amplifier is putting out white
noise, perhaps intermittently varying in amplitude.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, switching one speaker pretty much solved that one.

What, solved it as in proved that the amplifier *was* the cause, or solved
it as in it wasn't ?

Arfa