High Speed Fiber Optic design EDA package recommendation

M

Mike Brown

Guest
Just want to hear some opinions on this from those with experience.
Also, has anyone used Protel for fiber optic board design
successfully?
 
depends how fast.. we've used Protel for a 155Meg fibre link and for 1.5GHz
RF links.
I think their might even be one or two 22GHz links about. Its not the tools
but who uses them that's important... Only real difference is Protel can't
do capacitance and inductance simulation like the RF packages (eg HP and
others)... Our normal flow is to do the bits in ADS and import them onto
mechanical layers in Protel, or just take all the sizes and draw them as
fills on the top side.

Simon

"Mike Brown" <pic16c56@excite.com> wrote in message
news:34tirvc0e7jop4hbs9s4jn37dt5lbjgamm@4ax.com...
Just want to hear some opinions on this from those with experience.
Also, has anyone used Protel for fiber optic board design
successfully?
Click to expand...
 
interesting... Can you confirm if the matched net length feature works
in Protel? I read posts some time ago in the Protel forum about this
feature having problems. I've played with it, but it doesn't seem to
match the lengths of the nets. I selected two nets I wanted matched,
created a class for them, set up the rules. After running the feature,
some segments are added to the shorter net, but they remain unmatched
when I run the DRC. Any ideas?

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:48:13 +1300, "Simon Peacock"
<nowhere@to.be.found> wrote:

depends how fast.. we've used Protel for a 155Meg fibre link and for 1.5GHz
RF links.
I think their might even be one or two 22GHz links about. Its not the tools
but who uses them that's important... Only real difference is Protel can't
do capacitance and inductance simulation like the RF packages (eg HP and
others)... Our normal flow is to do the bits in ADS and import them onto
mechanical layers in Protel, or just take all the sizes and draw them as
fills on the top side.

Simon

"Mike Brown" <pic16c56@excite.com> wrote in message
news:34tirvc0e7jop4hbs9s4jn37dt5lbjgamm@4ax.com...
Just want to hear some opinions on this from those with experience.
Also, has anyone used Protel for fiber optic board design
successfully?
Click to expand...
 
Protel's (P99SE or DXP I assume) length matching utility requires multiple
iterations to achieve equal length. Run the utility a number of times until
it gets close enough for your purpose. One of those @%#$#&$*$ Protel
"features". 8^>

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"Mike Brown" <pic16c56@excite.com> wrote in message
news:dq6mrv8irghp8t2oj9956lf2ba40pvjr0h@4ax.com...
interesting... Can you confirm if the matched net length feature works
in Protel? I read posts some time ago in the Protel forum about this
feature having problems. I've played with it, but it doesn't seem to
match the lengths of the nets. I selected two nets I wanted matched,
created a class for them, set up the rules. After running the feature,
some segments are added to the shorter net, but they remain unmatched
when I run the DRC. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
 
I agree, that's my experience with that feature to on Protel 99SE sp6.
I guess it's the same for DXP. So, it's in the same category as the
test point feature...non-working! We may need a seat of Specctra to
perform this function for us, but we're still evaluating.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:23:41 GMT, "Brad Velander"
<spamthis@nowhere.com> wrote:

Protel's (P99SE or DXP I assume) length matching utility requires multiple
iterations to achieve equal length. Run the utility a number of times until
it gets close enough for your purpose. One of those @%#$#&$*$ Protel
"features". 8^
Click to expand...
 
FWIW, the tool chain I have used for OC-48 & OC-192 designs is:

Viewdraw -> SpecctraQuest -> Allegro

or

Viewdraw -> ePlanner -> Allegro

I am skeptical that Protel can do it. AFAIK, Protel can't report the
end-to-end length of a track. And if you have a transmission line
with a resistor termination in front of a BGA, how can you specify
what the begin and end of the track are for route-length calculation
purposes?

Stuart


Mike Brown <pic16c56@excite.com> wrote:
: I agree, that's my experience with that feature to on Protel 99SE sp6.
: I guess it's the same for DXP. So, it's in the same category as the
: test point feature...non-working! We may need a seat of Specctra to
: perform this function for us, but we're still evaluating.

: On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:23:41 GMT, "Brad Velander"
: <spamthis@nowhere.com> wrote:

:>Protel's (P99SE or DXP I assume) length matching utility requires multiple
:>iterations to achieve equal length. Run the utility a number of times until
:>it gets close enough for your purpose. One of those @%#$#&$*$ Protel
:>"features". 8^>
 
Stuart,
For your higher complex designs ruled by constraints, Protel is really
not the tool for the job. Protel is adding features continually but they are
typically 2nd rate in their actual function, some are just lame attempts to
give the marketing folks something to obtain more sales to Managers or
others who don't understand what they are buying besides the salesman's
sales-speak.

That said Protel has it's place in the lower - moderate tools market. It
is not a replacement tool for Allegro, Mentor Boardstation, Pantheon or a
few others but then it costs about 15-20% of those systems with all the
modules needed to do everything that Protel will do with a little work or
effort.

For track length measure, yes Protel can give you a total , section or
segment track length measure. It is not available in the default menus but
there is a function in the Protel PCB server called
"PCB:MeasureSelectedObjects". This can be customized into any menu or
toolbar. Once this function has been customized into a menu or toolbar,
select the track(s) segment(s) or a whole route using whatever means you
prefer, click the new server function instruction and you will get an
accurate measure of the selected track lengths between the two centroids at
either end of your selection. And yes, I have even checked it's accuracy on
corners, miters, arcs, etc., It is as accurate as anybody would need for a
PCB design. In my use I reassigned the Place Dimension button on the
Placement Toolbar (which I never used) to the new measure function.

Lesson: there are some powerful functions in Protel that are not readily
visible until you get in under the hood and tinker a little. Their
documentation should really be improved, but we say that about all software
these days.

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"Stuart Brorson" <sdb@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:vroildppdqta43@corp.supernews.com...
FWIW, the tool chain I have used for OC-48 & OC-192 designs is:

SNIP
I am skeptical that Protel can do it. AFAIK, Protel can't report the
end-to-end length of a track. And if you have a transmission line
with a resistor termination in front of a BGA, how can you specify
what the begin and end of the track are for route-length calculation
purposes?

Stuart
Click to expand...
 
Brad Velander <spamthis@nowhere.com> wrote:
: Stuart,
: For your higher complex designs ruled by constraints, Protel is really
: not the tool for the job.

[ . . . snip . . . ]

: For track length measure, yes Protel can give you a total , section or
: segment track length measure. It is not available in the default menus but
: there is a function in the Protel PCB server called
: "PCB:MeasureSelectedObjects". This can be customized into any menu or
: toolbar. Once this function has been customized into a menu or toolbar,
: select the track(s) segment(s) or a whole route using whatever means you
: prefer, click the new server function instruction and you will get an
: accurate measure of the selected track lengths between the two centroids at
: either end of your selection. And yes, I have even checked it's accuracy on
: corners, miters, arcs, etc., It is as accurate as anybody would need for a
: PCB design. In my use I reassigned the Place Dimension button on the
: Placement Toolbar (which I never used) to the new measure function.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info. I have used Protel for exactly
one design so far, so am not a "power user" of the tool.

But how about attaching routing attributes (MATCHED_LENGTH,
DIFF_PAIR, and the like) using a spreadsheet in Protel? (e.g. Like
ePlanner) Is that possible? (Honest question -- I don't know Protel
well enough.) Attaching routing attributes to nets by
hand in a schematic capture package is fraught with the possibility of
error.

One of my beefs with Protel is that it works best when you hold your
design in a "database", instead of in easily accessible ASCII files.
Therefore, you can't really get at your design info using scripts.
This makes it hard to do stuff like e.g. run Perl scripted checks to
see that all your routing attributes are attached to each and every
critical net.

(Yes, it does give you the option of using ASCII files when you create
a design, but I haven't had that much luck with that mode. Either
Protel doesn't work well that way, or my skills with the program are
not up to snuff. I will note that I am not totally inexperienced
[YMMV], so if I can't get a program to work correctly after hacking
around with it for a while, at least some of the blame belongs to the
program. :) )

: Lesson: there are some powerful functions in Protel that are not readily
: visible until you get in under the hood and tinker a little. Their
: documentation should really be improved, but we say that about all software
: these days.

I agree that the package is really great for lower end stuff & am not
slagging off Protel (at least too much. . . . .). The OP
was asking about doing optical port cards, however, which usually
implies being able to handle routing constraints easily.

Stuart
 
Stuart,
I think that I covered off the suitability of using Protel for the
original query in my first sentence, it is not a 'good' package for tight
rule constrained designs. High speed, highly complex, is not it's forte by
any means and it doesn't compare with the big boy's packages in it's
advanced utility functions.

I typically did not use a lot of the features you are asking about but I
know others that did. There are some real power users on the Association of
Protel EDA Users listserver. I know a few of the guys there have utilized
the ascii features and exporting the databases to spreadsheets for further
manipulation with scripts and VB programming of their own macros and
scripts. If you want to pursue that avenue for your own edification, try
posting some queries to their list. The list can be subscribed to through:

http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/index.html

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"Stuart Brorson" <sdb@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:vrpj7mdp8hn15e@corp.supernews.com...
Brad Velander <spamthis@nowhere.com> wrote:
: Stuart,
: For your higher complex designs ruled by constraints, Protel is
really
: not the tool for the job.

[ . . . snip . . . ]

: For track length measure, yes Protel can give you a total , section
or
: segment track length measure. It is not available in the default menus
but
: there is a function in the Protel PCB server called
: "PCB:MeasureSelectedObjects". This can be customized into any menu or
: toolbar. Once this function has been customized into a menu or toolbar,
: select the track(s) segment(s) or a whole route using whatever means you
: prefer, click the new server function instruction and you will get an
: accurate measure of the selected track lengths between the two centroids
at
: either end of your selection. And yes, I have even checked it's accuracy
on
: corners, miters, arcs, etc., It is as accurate as anybody would need for
a
: PCB design. In my use I reassigned the Place Dimension button on the
: Placement Toolbar (which I never used) to the new measure function.

Fair enough. Thanks for the info. I have used Protel for exactly
one design so far, so am not a "power user" of the tool.

But how about attaching routing attributes (MATCHED_LENGTH,
DIFF_PAIR, and the like) using a spreadsheet in Protel? (e.g. Like
ePlanner) Is that possible? (Honest question -- I don't know Protel
well enough.) Attaching routing attributes to nets by
hand in a schematic capture package is fraught with the possibility of
error.

One of my beefs with Protel is that it works best when you hold your
design in a "database", instead of in easily accessible ASCII files.
Therefore, you can't really get at your design info using scripts.
This makes it hard to do stuff like e.g. run Perl scripted checks to
see that all your routing attributes are attached to each and every
critical net.

(Yes, it does give you the option of using ASCII files when you create
a design, but I haven't had that much luck with that mode. Either
Protel doesn't work well that way, or my skills with the program are
not up to snuff. I will note that I am not totally inexperienced
[YMMV], so if I can't get a program to work correctly after hacking
around with it for a while, at least some of the blame belongs to the
program. :) )

: Lesson: there are some powerful functions in Protel that are not
readily
: visible until you get in under the hood and tinker a little. Their
: documentation should really be improved, but we say that about all
software
: these days.

I agree that the package is really great for lower end stuff & am not
slagging off Protel (at least too much. . . . .). The OP
was asking about doing optical port cards, however, which usually
implies being able to handle routing constraints easily.

Stuart
Click to expand...
 
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