Help with N-channel JFETs and MOSFETs ???

I have been looking at some books on JFETs and MOSFETs and have some
basic questions.

One of my problems is with the N channel JFET and MOSFET. I don't know
how to get the negative voltage levels at the gate to get the JFET and
MOSFET to turn off. I think that with a P channel JFET or MOSFET you
would simply set up a voltage divider to get the positive voltage
levels desired.

I am having trouble finding an example of a simple circuit with DC
power supply, light bulb, N channel JFET or MOSFET, and actual method
of controlling the voltage levels at the gate to adjust the brightness
of the bulb.

My main goal is to begin to understand the JFET and MOSFET, not to
build a light bulb dimmer. I know that there are more efficient ways
of controlling the brightness such as pulse width modulation. I think
that seeing a circuit like the one discribed above would help fill some
voids in my understanding of basic electronics.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[John Larkin]

On 24 Jan 2005 08:10:42 -0800, jalbers@bsu.edu wrote:

I have been looking at some books on JFETs and MOSFETs and have some
basic questions.

One of my problems is with the N channel JFET and MOSFET. I don't know
how to get the negative voltage levels at the gate to get the JFET and
MOSFET to turn off. I think that with a P channel JFET or MOSFET you
would simply set up a voltage divider to get the positive voltage
levels desired.

I am having trouble finding an example of a simple circuit with DC
power supply, light bulb, N channel JFET or MOSFET, and actual method
of controlling the voltage levels at the gate to adjust the brightness
of the bulb.

My main goal is to begin to understand the JFET and MOSFET, not to
build a light bulb dimmer. I know that there are more efficient ways
of controlling the brightness such as pulse width modulation. I think
that seeing a circuit like the one discribed above would help fill some
voids in my understanding of basic electronics.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

+12v-------+---------------+
| |
| |
| |
| bulb
| |
| |
/ |
/ d
pot /<-------------g n-mosfet
/ s
/ |
| |
| |
| |
gnd--------+---------------+



Start with this. Experiment with how it behaves, measuring the
voltages and currents in each situation, as you turn the pot. Compare
the results to the specs and curves on the mosfet datasheet. I'd
suggest a general-purpose TO-220 power mosfet for experimenting. The
pot can be most anything, 1K to 1M, doesn't matter.

N-Mosfets turn on with positive gate voltage, and are off with Vg = 0.
Jfets are different.

Try this, come back with results, and we can discuss it if you like.
There are some fun variants to play with once you get this under
control.


John

 

[John Popelish]

jalbers@bsu.edu wrote:

I have been looking at some books on JFETs and MOSFETs and have some
basic questions.

One of my problems is with the N channel JFET and MOSFET. I don't know
how to get the negative voltage levels at the gate to get the JFET and
MOSFET to turn off. I think that with a P channel JFET or MOSFET you
would simply set up a voltage divider to get the positive voltage
levels desired.

I am having trouble finding an example of a simple circuit with DC
power supply, light bulb, N channel JFET or MOSFET, and actual method
of controlling the voltage levels at the gate to adjust the brightness
of the bulb.

My main goal is to begin to understand the JFET and MOSFET, not to
build a light bulb dimmer. I know that there are more efficient ways
of controlling the brightness such as pulse width modulation. I think
that seeing a circuit like the one discribed above would help fill some
voids in my understanding of basic electronics.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The main difference between jfets and mosfets (aside from the fact
that a diode junction isolates the gate of a jfet and silicon dioxide
isolates the gate of a mosfet) is that most mosfets are enhancement
types and jfets are all depletion types. Enhancement means that the
fet is normally (gate tied to source voltage) off, and the gate
voltage has to be positive with respect to the source (for N-channel
devices) to make the channel conductive. DEpletion mode devices are
on when the gate voltage is at source voltage, and turn on less as the
gate voltage gets more negative than the source (for N-channel
devices).

When working with a single supply, it can be difficult to use jfets in
simple circuits as common source switches, because you have no voltage
available that is more negative than the rail you tie the source to.
They work well as amplifiers, though, if you add a resistor between
the source and negative rail, so that the channel current drops some
voltage across that resistor, raising the source voltage a bit
positive. Then the gate can be biased to the negative rail with a
high value resistor or other path (e.g. transformer winding connected
to the negative rail).

Just remember that the gate voltage must always be measured with
respect to the source voltage, regardless of how the fet is connected
to other things. There are smaller effects based on gate to drain
voltage, but the dominant control effect is gate to source voltage.

--
John Popelish

 

[Jamie]

John Popelish wrote:

jalbers@bsu.edu wrote:

I have been looking at some books on JFETs and MOSFETs and have some
basic questions.

One of my problems is with the N channel JFET and MOSFET. I don't know
how to get the negative voltage levels at the gate to get the JFET and
MOSFET to turn off. I think that with a P channel JFET or MOSFET you
would simply set up a voltage divider to get the positive voltage
levels desired.

I am having trouble finding an example of a simple circuit with DC
power supply, light bulb, N channel JFET or MOSFET, and actual method
of controlling the voltage levels at the gate to adjust the brightness
of the bulb.

My main goal is to begin to understand the JFET and MOSFET, not to
build a light bulb dimmer. I know that there are more efficient ways
of controlling the brightness such as pulse width modulation. I think
that seeing a circuit like the one discribed above would help fill some
voids in my understanding of basic electronics.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


The main difference between jfets and mosfets (aside from the fact
that a diode junction isolates the gate of a jfet and silicon dioxide
isolates the gate of a mosfet) is that most mosfets are enhancement
types and jfets are all depletion types. Enhancement means that the
fet is normally (gate tied to source voltage) off, and the gate
voltage has to be positive with respect to the source (for N-channel
devices) to make the channel conductive. DEpletion mode devices are
on when the gate voltage is at source voltage, and turn on less as the
gate voltage gets more negative than the source (for N-channel
devices).

When working with a single supply, it can be difficult to use jfets in
simple circuits as common source switches, because you have no voltage
available that is more negative than the rail you tie the source to.
They work well as amplifiers, though, if you add a resistor between
the source and negative rail, so that the channel current drops some
voltage across that resistor, raising the source voltage a bit
positive. Then the gate can be biased to the negative rail with a
high value resistor or other path (e.g. transformer winding connected
to the negative rail).

Just remember that the gate voltage must always be measured with
respect to the source voltage, regardless of how the fet is connected
to other things. There are smaller effects based on gate to drain
voltage, but the dominant control effect is gate to source voltage.

you know, i was going to offer a good example, but your explanation hit

rite on the money for the basic reader. i just wish others could reduce
them self's at times to help the newbie's. i try very hard to keep my
replies as simple as possible in this NG's, hence the name of the group
i remember years ago (aprox 28 ago now ) trying to get a simple
description of a JFET & MoSFET biasing theories. what i got mostly was
those trying to throw their college education at me for which a good
sum of them really didn't understand, all they knew was, that was the
way it was.!
even the instructors in our electronics shop wasn't exactly 100%
sure of them self's in that area. they admitted it.
simply put, experience is a very good teacher.