Help required with low battery hysteresis

A

Andrew Gregory

Guest
Hi,

I'm working on a small step-up switch-mode power supply based on the
MAX1797 that will use two AAs. The circuit was quite simple, until I got
to the low battery hysteresis. I found an example circuit with hysteresis:

<http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/960>

the differences being it uses a Lion battery with a shutdown voltage of
2.9V and switch-on of 3.3V, while for my AAs I was planning on a shutdown
of 1.7V and switch-on of 2.1V.

Quick summary of the relevant MAX1797 pins:

LBI is the Low Battery Input, the threshold is 0.85V.
LBO is the Low Battery Output, open drain. Sinks current to ground while
LBI>0.85V.
SHDN shuts down the IC when high (disconnects the battery from the output,
LBI/LBO continue operating).

The example circuit uses a mosfet to switch a resistor in and out of
circuit to adjust the LBI voltage divider, but doesn't otherwise identify
the component to use.

My knowledge of transistors is virtually nil - I have no idea how to go
about selecting a suitable transistor, or even if there is an alternative
method of handling the hysteresis.

I'll note that I already have the IC, inductor, caps and some resistors,
all SMT, so I'd like any extra components to be SMT too.

I understand the low voltages involved make things a little tricky. If it
helps (I'm pretty sure it won't), there's no need to recover after a
shutdown - it can stay shutdown until the battery is disconnected and
reconnected.

Any help, hints, advice, etc on how I should go about implementing this
low battery hysteresis would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Andrew Gregory
 
Andrew Gregory wrote:
Hi,

I'm working on a small step-up switch-mode power supply based on the
MAX1797 that will use two AAs. The circuit was quite simple, until I got
to the low battery hysteresis. I found an example circuit with hysteresis:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/960

the differences being it uses a Lion battery with a shutdown voltage of
2.9V and switch-on of 3.3V, while for my AAs I was planning on a shutdown
of 1.7V and switch-on of 2.1V.

Quick summary of the relevant MAX1797 pins:

LBI is the Low Battery Input, the threshold is 0.85V.
LBO is the Low Battery Output, open drain. Sinks current to ground while
LBI>0.85V.
SHDN shuts down the IC when high (disconnects the battery from the output,
LBI/LBO continue operating).

The example circuit uses a mosfet to switch a resistor in and out of
circuit to adjust the LBI voltage divider, but doesn't otherwise identify
the component to use.

My knowledge of transistors is virtually nil - I have no idea how to go
about selecting a suitable transistor, or even if there is an alternative
method of handling the hysteresis.
Click to expand...
Any "logic level" FET should do the trick here.

I'll note that I already have the IC, inductor, caps and some resistors,
all SMT, so I'd like any extra components to be SMT too.

I understand the low voltages involved make things a little tricky. If it
helps (I'm pretty sure it won't), there's no need to recover after a
shutdown - it can stay shutdown until the battery is disconnected and
reconnected.

Any help, hints, advice, etc on how I should go about implementing this
low battery hysteresis would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
I'd just go with the solution presented, at first glance that seems to
be the easiest way to add the required hysteresis, just select the
appropriate values for R1, R2, and R3 for your requirement.

Dave :)
 
Hi David,

Thanks for your response.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 08:38:08 +0800, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com>
wrote:

Any "logic level" FET should do the trick here.
Click to expand...
That implies I know enough to identify a "logic level" FET! :)

I'd just go with the solution presented, at first glance that seems to
be the easiest way to add the required hysteresis, just select the
appropriate values for R1, R2, and R3 for your requirement.
Click to expand...
Yes, figuring out the resistor values won't be hard, I'll use a
spreadsheet for that. The problem is still selecting an appropriate FET.

I've done some more research and found some terminology I don't
understand. "Enhancement mode" and "Depletion mode". It appears the
example circuit I mentioned
<http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/960> uses a
"depletion mode" FET. I assume the difference is important? If so, I've
had a really tough time finding even *one* depletion mode FET from RS or
Farnell (DSE, Jaycar, Altronics don't do SMT MOSFETs - are there any other
Australian suppliers of components?). Every MOSFET seems to be enhancement
mode.

In fact, I've only found one depletion mode MOSFET in my preferred SOT-23
package size:

<http://au.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=743641>

Naturally, it's "out of stock" :-/ Would that be suitable in your opinion?

RS also have exactly one (that I've found, anyway) depletion mode MOSFET,
a BSP149, but it comes in an SOT-223 package. I'd give a link, but as I
write this the RS site is down.

Thanks.
--
Andrew Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
 
Andrew Gregory wrote:
Hi David,

Thanks for your response.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 08:38:08 +0800, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com
wrote:

Any "logic level" FET should do the trick here.

That implies I know enough to identify a "logic level" FET! :)
Click to expand...
Simple, it's a FET that is advertised as being "logic level" or
"digital"! :->
Most FETs designed to operate at logic voltage levels (eg. 5V TTL, 3.3V
etc) will be advertised as such. That is what you need here as the FET
is just being used a switch. Eg. 5V on the gate and it switches on, 0V
and it switches off.

I'd just go with the solution presented, at first glance that seems to
be the easiest way to add the required hysteresis, just select the
appropriate values for R1, R2, and R3 for your requirement.

Yes, figuring out the resistor values won't be hard, I'll use a
spreadsheet for that. The problem is still selecting an appropriate FET.

I've done some more research and found some terminology I don't
understand. "Enhancement mode" and "Depletion mode". It appears the
example circuit I mentioned
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/960> uses a
"depletion mode" FET. I assume the difference is important? If so, I've
had a really tough time finding even *one* depletion mode FET from RS or
Farnell (DSE, Jaycar, Altronics don't do SMT MOSFETs - are there any other
Australian suppliers of components?). Every MOSFET seems to be enhancement
mode.
Click to expand...
Yes, most are enhancement mode.
Try here for an explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET

In fact, I've only found one depletion mode MOSFET in my preferred SOT-23
package size:

http://au.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=743641

Naturally, it's "out of stock" :-/ Would that be suitable in your opinion?

RS also have exactly one (that I've found, anyway) depletion mode MOSFET,
a BSP149, but it comes in an SOT-223 package. I'd give a link, but as I
write this the RS site is down.
Click to expand...
You don't need a depletion mode FET, just a "logic level" or "digital"
N-Channel one.
Farnell have oodles of logic level FETs
The very first device I found in the Farnell MOSFET section should do
the job, the FDV301N $0.65ea (qty 5 min) SOT-23 package.

Regards
Dave :)
 
David L. Jones wrote:
Andrew Gregory wrote:
Hi David,

Thanks for your response.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 08:38:08 +0800, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com
wrote:

Any "logic level" FET should do the trick here.

That implies I know enough to identify a "logic level" FET! :)

Simple, it's a FET that is advertised as being "logic level" or
"digital"! :-
Most FETs designed to operate at logic voltage levels (eg. 5V TTL, 3.3V
etc) will be advertised as such. That is what you need here as the FET
is just being used a switch. Eg. 5V on the gate and it switches on, 0V
and it switches off.

I'd just go with the solution presented, at first glance that seems to
be the easiest way to add the required hysteresis, just select the
appropriate values for R1, R2, and R3 for your requirement.

Yes, figuring out the resistor values won't be hard, I'll use a
spreadsheet for that. The problem is still selecting an appropriate FET.

I've done some more research and found some terminology I don't
understand. "Enhancement mode" and "Depletion mode". It appears the
example circuit I mentioned
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/960> uses a
"depletion mode" FET. I assume the difference is important? If so, I've
had a really tough time finding even *one* depletion mode FET from RS or
Farnell (DSE, Jaycar, Altronics don't do SMT MOSFETs - are there any other
Australian suppliers of components?). Every MOSFET seems to be enhancement
mode.

Yes, most are enhancement mode.
Try here for an explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET

In fact, I've only found one depletion mode MOSFET in my preferred SOT-23
package size:

http://au.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=743641

Naturally, it's "out of stock" :-/ Would that be suitable in your opinion?

RS also have exactly one (that I've found, anyway) depletion mode MOSFET,
a BSP149, but it comes in an SOT-223 package. I'd give a link, but as I
write this the RS site is down.

You don't need a depletion mode FET, just a "logic level" or "digital"
N-Channel one.
Farnell have oodles of logic level FETs
The very first device I found in the Farnell MOSFET section should do
the job, the FDV301N $0.65ea (qty 5 min) SOT-23 package.
Click to expand...
Oops, sorry, that device has a switch on voltage (Vgs) of just under
2.5V, you need 1.8V due to the open drain output and pull-up to VBatt.

Try the Si1032R instead which is even cheaper and SOT-23 also (Farnell
393-5486)

Dave :)
 
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 16:25:17 +0800, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com>
wrote:

Try the Si1032R instead which is even cheaper and SOT-23 also (Farnell
393-5486)
Click to expand...
OK, I'll give that one a go.

Thanks!
--
Andrew Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
 
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:58:18 +0800, Andrew Gregory
<andrew@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 16:25:17 +0800, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com
wrote:

Try the Si1032R instead which is even cheaper and SOT-23 also (Farnell
393-5486)

OK, I'll give that one a go.
Click to expand...
I've now put it all together and it works great! Thanks for your help!

--
Andrew Gregory
<URL: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/ >
 
Andrew Gregory wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:58:18 +0800, Andrew Gregory
andrew@no.spam.scss.com.au.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 16:25:17 +0800, David L. Jones <altzone@gmail.com
wrote:

Try the Si1032R instead which is even cheaper and SOT-23 also (Farnell
393-5486)

OK, I'll give that one a go.

I've now put it all together and it works great! Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
No prob.
Good work!

Dave :)
 
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