HELP: Issue with Powering a Door bell on a Relay

[Ariel Suero]

Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up..

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

 

[ehsjr]

On 6/24/2013 8:54 PM, Ariel Suero wrote:

Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

Your circuit is working as designed. The doorbell striker will
move to the "bing" side when a contestant's bulb lights, and
will stay there until the reset switch is pressed. The 1000 uF
cap and 51 ohm resistor will hold it there for about one more
second _after_ the reset switch is pressed. Reducing the value
of the cap will shorten that one second interval, but will have
no effect on the time between the bulb lighting and the reset
switch interval. If a contestant's bulb lights and no one
presses the reset switch, the doorbell striker will remain
on the "bing" side forever - or until something burns out or
power is removed.

If you want continuous ringing as long as a bulb is lit, change
to a different type bell, like this:

http://www.sustainablesupply.com/Approved-Vendor-1FD15-Bell-Low-Voltage-p/w104020.htm?gclid=CObNq7uZ_rcCFc6j4Aod6zIAYA&CAWELAID=1307402398

(Watch for line wrap in the url above)

Ed

 

[Dan Coby]

On 6/24/2013 5:54 PM, Ariel Suero wrote:

Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

I suggest that you check your wiring of the relay. There should be no delay
between when you press the button until the relay energizes (and the buzzer
sounds). The fact that you say that you have a delay implies that something
is not wired correctly.

If you are using the relay described in the circuit diagram with a 500 ohm
coil then the relay should energize for about 0.5 to 1 second and then drop
out. There should be no delay. The 1000 uf capacitor and the resistance
of the coil determine how long the relay will stay energized. Once again
your description implies that the relay is staying energized until the reset
is pushed. This should not happen if your circuit is wired as shown.

You can verify the operation of the relay by placing your voltmeter across
its contacts. When the relay is not energized, you should see whatever
voltage the your buzzer supplies. When the relay energizes and the contacts
close, the voltage should drop to zero. (Or you can disconnect the buzzer
and use your voltmeter's resistance setting to check resistance of the contacts.
With the relay not energized you should seen infinite resistance. With the
relay energized you should read near zero.)


A side note: If you are using higher wattage light bulbs then the 25 watt
bulbs shown in the diagram, then some adjustments need to be made in the
component values. Without the component value adjustments, you might get
the effects described.


Dan

 

[Ariel Suero]

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:04:50 AM UTC-4, Dan Coby wrote:

On 6/24/2013 5:54 PM, Ariel Suero wrote:

Hello,



So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.



I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.



Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.



What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.



Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.



Thanks!



Ariel



http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif





I suggest that you check your wiring of the relay. There should be no delay

between when you press the button until the relay energizes (and the buzzer

sounds). The fact that you say that you have a delay implies that something

is not wired correctly.



If you are using the relay described in the circuit diagram with a 500 ohm

coil then the relay should energize for about 0.5 to 1 second and then drop

out. There should be no delay. The 1000 uf capacitor and the resistance

of the coil determine how long the relay will stay energized. Once again

your description implies that the relay is staying energized until the reset

is pushed. This should not happen if your circuit is wired as shown.



You can verify the operation of the relay by placing your voltmeter across

its contacts. When the relay is not energized, you should see whatever

voltage the your buzzer supplies. When the relay energizes and the contacts

close, the voltage should drop to zero. (Or you can disconnect the buzzer

and use your voltmeter's resistance setting to check resistance of the contacts.

With the relay not energized you should seen infinite resistance. With the

relay energized you should read near zero.)





A side note: If you are using higher wattage light bulbs then the 25 watt

bulbs shown in the diagram, then some adjustments need to be made in the

component values. Without the component value adjustments, you might get

the effects described.





Dan

Hello Dan, I will check the wiring of the relay today. I'm presently using 25 Watt colored incandescent bulbs I purchased from home depot and have them attached via a basic bulb socket.

 

[Ariel Suero]

Hello,

Thanks to all who offered their valuable advice and knowledge. The project is complete and working great!!! I found that the door bell was wired to the NC instead of NO, I misinterpreted the layout on the back of the baggie. Also, I found that there was a bad diode in relay portion of the circuit. Replaced the diode, and connected to the NO, no need to step down the size of the capacitor.

Thanks Again!!

Ariel

 

[Jamie]

Ariel Suero wrote:

Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

I can't help felling that some of us are being quizzed.

Why did you put a cap in series to the relay coil?
I mean, I suppose you can do that but you're going to
get AC to the relay coil and I'd wager that it's a DC coil
relay.

Jamie

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:05:59 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Ariel Suero wrote:

Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

I can't help felling that some of us are being quizzed.

Why did you put a cap in series to the relay coil?
I mean, I suppose you can do that but you're going to
get AC to the relay coil and I'd wager that it's a DC coil
relay.

Jamie

And the difference is?

(But it's NOT AC that is applied. Did you miss that block labeled
"rectifier"?)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jamie]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:05:59 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Ariel Suero wrote:


Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

I can't help felling that some of us are being quizzed.

Why did you put a cap in series to the relay coil?
I mean, I suppose you can do that but you're going to
get AC to the relay coil and I'd wager that it's a DC coil
relay.

Jamie


And the difference is?

(But it's NOT AC that is applied. Did you miss that block labeled
"rectifier"?)

...Jim Thompson
No, I didn't miss the rectifier, but obviously you missed something..

The 100 Uf cap that is being used on the HV side of the scr's isn't
enough to supply a clean DC to cathode side where the
1000uf cap is being used to pass the momentary pulse to the relay.

Instead, you'll most likely get a little noise there after the
initial pulse. Any of the 25 watt lamps are on at the same time which
on serves to add to the over over burden 100uf.

Now maybe if the DC coil current requirements were a little higher to
prevent it from partial latching after initial pulse, it could work.


You see, I look at circuits like that, I can see holes a mile away..

Have a good day..

Jamie

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:01:20 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:05:59 -0400, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:


Ariel Suero wrote:


Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights, switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings. However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif

I can't help felling that some of us are being quizzed.

Why did you put a cap in series to the relay coil?
I mean, I suppose you can do that but you're going to
get AC to the relay coil and I'd wager that it's a DC coil
relay.

Jamie


And the difference is?

(But it's NOT AC that is applied. Did you miss that block labeled
"rectifier"?)

...Jim Thompson
No, I didn't miss the rectifier, but obviously you missed something..

The 100 Uf cap that is being used on the HV side of the scr's isn't
enough to supply a clean DC to cathode side where the
1000uf cap is being used to pass the momentary pulse to the relay.

Instead, you'll most likely get a little noise there after the
initial pulse. Any of the 25 watt lamps are on at the same time which
on serves to add to the over over burden 100uf.

Now maybe if the DC coil current requirements were a little higher to
prevent it from partial latching after initial pulse, it could work.


You see, I look at circuits like that, I can see holes a mile away..

Have a good day..

Jamie

It's a crock circuit... what else can you say ?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[ehsjr]

On 6/24/2013 11:15 PM, ehsjr wrote:

On 6/24/2013 8:54 PM, Ariel Suero wrote:
Hello,

So I have put together the following circuit found in the link and
everything with the regular part of the circuit namely, lights,
switches, lock-out function all work.

I have wired up a common house-hold door bell which comes with it's
own transformer to step down the voltage. And, I'm supplying power via
it's own AC cord wired within a project both separate from the Game
Show circuit. I'm using the small relay circuit to act as the door
bell button.

Problem is it seems as though the capacitor maybe too large and is not
discharging fast enough.

What I'm seeing after I press one of the game show switches is the
corresponding light coming on, but with a slight delay the bell rings.
However I've noticed a hum coming from the bell unit when powered and
connected to the relay circuit. It appears that piece that hits the
bell plate is holding and then heating up when plugged in for a bit of
time.

Can going from a 1000 uF capacitor to perhaps a 500 or 250uF help
solve the delay, the sticking of the bell striker? Any help would be
greatly appreciated, I'm sooo close to finishing and this is the only
detail holding me up.

Thanks!

Ariel

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page7.htm#game1.gif


Your circuit is working as designed. The doorbell striker will
move to the "bing" side when a contestant's bulb lights, and
will stay there until the reset switch is pressed. The 1000 uF
cap and 51 ohm resistor will hold it there for about one more
second _after_ the reset switch is pressed. Reducing the value
of the cap will shorten that one second interval, but will have
no effect on the time between the bulb lighting and the reset
switch interval. If a contestant's bulb lights and no one
presses the reset switch, the doorbell striker will remain
on the "bing" side forever - or until something burns out or
power is removed.

If you want continuous ringing as long as a bulb is lit, change
to a different type bell, like this:
http://www.sustainablesupply.com/Approved-Vendor-1FD15-Bell-Low-Voltage-p/w104020.htm?gclid=CObNq7uZ_rcCFc6j4Aod6zIAYA&CAWELAID=1307402398

(Watch for line wrap in the url above)

Ed

Disregard my post above - I had the wrong circuit
in mind.

Ed