Help! Dodge Colt won't run.

[Eric R Snow]

I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island. The car is a '92 Dodge Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.
But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly. I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric R Snow

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:55:06 -0800, Eric R Snow wrote:

I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island. The car is a '92 Dodge Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.
But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly. I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric R Snow

If you have a way to get to a large public library, they might have a
Chilton's or equivalent.

One thing you could try is: Disconnect the NEGATIVE battery cable. That's
the black one. Leave the red one connected - what you've done is take
everything out of the circuit, and it's safe to touch the chassis. Let it
sit for 10 - 15 minutes - have a cigarette, doobie, cup of coffee, beer,
or cocktail, or any of the above - I don't know about trying to have a
nooner in that time frame, but 45 minutes to an hour or so should do no
harm.

This might reset the processor.

Then, reconnect the negative battery cable. Test the car.

If it's still broke, either get a qualified mechanic or go to the library
and get Chilton's or equiv.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:55:06 -0800, Eric R Snow <etpm@whidbey.com>
wrote:

I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island.

---
Aren't we all...
---

The car is a '92 Dodge Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.
But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly. I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.

---
What you're now experiencing is the pain of the transition from human
control of the machines which get us from place to place to the
control of the machines by themselves after we've made them
autonomous. That is, if your car cares for its life and your want for
transportation is deleterious to its survival in terms of what it's
been told it should supply, it will balk at your attempts to fool it
into thinking that it's something other than what it is and will stall
soon after you ask it to start.

--
John Fields

 

[Fritz Schlunder]

"Eric R Snow" <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:gr74319ftjc96diru08pbs57qkkjddocf5@4ax.com...

I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island. The car is a '92 Dodge Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.

Doesn't sound like the problem. Compared to the other hardware on a vehicle
relays are quite reliable, and if the fuel pump relay was toast then you
wouldn't be getting fuel pressure and you wouldn't be able to start and run
the car even 1/4 mile (albeit poorly).

But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly.

Could you describe what "started but ran poorly" means in more detail? In
what way did it run poorly? Did the engine feel really rough, like it was
significantly unbalanced or something? Did the engine appear to have
significant problem trying to maintain a steady idle, like it was always on
the verge of stalling? When you drove it the 1/4 mile did it act seriously
underpowered? Etc.

I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.

It seems unlikely to me a bad mass air flow sensor would prevent the car
from starting at all. A bad mass air flow sensor would likely harm
emissions (especially when the car operates in open loop mode, shortly after
first starting up), and may conceivably cause the car to run poorly, but if
you have changed it and your problem remains, I doubt it is the source of
your real problems.

Presumably when you replaced the mass air flow sensor you disconnected power
to the car's electrical system or otherwise did something to clear the
trouble code from the ECM's memory. The ECM won't necessarily reregister
the problem (even if the problem still exists) until the car has been driven
for several miles. It is possible you still have a problem here, but I
rather doubt it. More likely to me the mass air flow sensor was already bad
before your most recent set of problems, and you just never noticed it until
now? Was the check engine light on before your recent set of problems?

It is impossible to tell with certainty where your problem lays given your
description, but my suspicion is you may have some problem with your
ignition system, even though clearly sparks are being generated. How many
miles are on the car, and when last was the distributor cap and rotor (I
assume this car uses a distributor, but I'm not specifically familiar with
this car), ignition wires, and spark plugs last thoroughly checked and/or
replaced?

When the car ran the 1/4 mile, did the car run like it was not running on
the full complement of cylinders, and did the exhaust smell like raw fuel?

 

[Eric R Snow]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:44:40 -0700, "Fritz Schlunder" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

"Eric R Snow" <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:gr74319ftjc96diru08pbs57qkkjddocf5@4ax.com...
I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island. The car is a '92 Dodge Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.

Doesn't sound like the problem. Compared to the other hardware on a vehicle
relays are quite reliable, and if the fuel pump relay was toast then you
wouldn't be getting fuel pressure and you wouldn't be able to start and run
the car even 1/4 mile (albeit poorly).

But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly.

Could you describe what "started but ran poorly" means in more detail? In
what way did it run poorly? Did the engine feel really rough, like it was
significantly unbalanced or something? Did the engine appear to have
significant problem trying to maintain a steady idle, like it was always on
the verge of stalling? When you drove it the 1/4 mile did it act seriously
underpowered? Etc.


I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.

It seems unlikely to me a bad mass air flow sensor would prevent the car
from starting at all. A bad mass air flow sensor would likely harm
emissions (especially when the car operates in open loop mode, shortly after
first starting up), and may conceivably cause the car to run poorly, but if
you have changed it and your problem remains, I doubt it is the source of
your real problems.

Presumably when you replaced the mass air flow sensor you disconnected power
to the car's electrical system or otherwise did something to clear the
trouble code from the ECM's memory. The ECM won't necessarily reregister
the problem (even if the problem still exists) until the car has been driven
for several miles. It is possible you still have a problem here, but I
rather doubt it. More likely to me the mass air flow sensor was already bad
before your most recent set of problems, and you just never noticed it until
now? Was the check engine light on before your recent set of problems?

It is impossible to tell with certainty where your problem lays given your
description, but my suspicion is you may have some problem with your
ignition system, even though clearly sparks are being generated. How many
miles are on the car, and when last was the distributor cap and rotor (I
assume this car uses a distributor, but I'm not specifically familiar with
this car), ignition wires, and spark plugs last thoroughly checked and/or
replaced?

When the car ran the 1/4 mile, did the car run like it was not running on
the full complement of cylinders, and did the exhaust smell like raw fuel?

Thanks Fritz and all the others who responded. I actually meant to

post this on another group but the car IS electronically controlled.
Anyway Fritz, the car idled roughly, then went from fast to slow idle
back to a normal idle. When driving the car ran well for a little
while but I was going slow. I dropped a gear to see If I could get the
engine to rev fast. It acted like it was leaning out. Then, it would
run normal at a lower throttle. It just occurred to me that the
problem may indeed be with the distributer cap or rotor. Years ago I
had a car that would only run with the timimg way advanced. Turned out
the new rotor was shorting to the rotor shaft. With the advanced
ignition there was less resistance so the spark could occur in the
combustion chamber. I wonder if my car is doing what my old mazda did?
I'll replace the rotor and cap.
Eric

 

[John G]

"Eric R Snow" <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:trl631dersghke30cq9c5jhjlfqs9894bq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:44:40 -0700, "Fritz Schlunder" <me@privacy.net
wrote:


"Eric R Snow" <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:gr74319ftjc96diru08pbs57qkkjddocf5@4ax.com...
I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island. The car is a '92 Dodge
Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other
guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It
has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when
the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.

Doesn't sound like the problem. Compared to the other hardware on a
vehicle
relays are quite reliable, and if the fuel pump relay was toast then
you
wouldn't be getting fuel pressure and you wouldn't be able to start
and run
the car even 1/4 mile (albeit poorly).

But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere
I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the
old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was
a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to
the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly.

Could you describe what "started but ran poorly" means in more detail?
In
what way did it run poorly? Did the engine feel really rough, like it
was
significantly unbalanced or something? Did the engine appear to have
significant problem trying to maintain a steady idle, like it was
always on
the verge of stalling? When you drove it the 1/4 mile did it act
seriously
underpowered? Etc.


I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned
out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.

It seems unlikely to me a bad mass air flow sensor would prevent the
car
from starting at all. A bad mass air flow sensor would likely harm
emissions (especially when the car operates in open loop mode, shortly
after
first starting up), and may conceivably cause the car to run poorly,
but if
you have changed it and your problem remains, I doubt it is the source
of
your real problems.

Presumably when you replaced the mass air flow sensor you disconnected
power
to the car's electrical system or otherwise did something to clear the
trouble code from the ECM's memory. The ECM won't necessarily
reregister
the problem (even if the problem still exists) until the car has been
driven
for several miles. It is possible you still have a problem here, but
I
rather doubt it. More likely to me the mass air flow sensor was
already bad
before your most recent set of problems, and you just never noticed it
until
now? Was the check engine light on before your recent set of
problems?

It is impossible to tell with certainty where your problem lays given
your
description, but my suspicion is you may have some problem with your
ignition system, even though clearly sparks are being generated. How
many
miles are on the car, and when last was the distributor cap and rotor
(I
assume this car uses a distributor, but I'm not specifically familiar
with
this car), ignition wires, and spark plugs last thoroughly checked
and/or
replaced?

When the car ran the 1/4 mile, did the car run like it was not running
on
the full complement of cylinders, and did the exhaust smell like raw
fuel?

Thanks Fritz and all the others who responded. I actually meant to
post this on another group but the car IS electronically controlled.
Anyway Fritz, the car idled roughly, then went from fast to slow idle
back to a normal idle. When driving the car ran well for a little
while but I was going slow. I dropped a gear to see If I could get the
engine to rev fast. It acted like it was leaning out. Then, it would
run normal at a lower throttle. It just occurred to me that the
problem may indeed be with the distributer cap or rotor. Years ago I
had a car that would only run with the timimg way advanced. Turned out
the new rotor was shorting to the rotor shaft. With the advanced
ignition there was less resistance so the spark could occur in the
combustion chamber. I wonder if my car is doing what my old mazda did?
I'll replace the rotor and cap.
Eric

I think I would be looking at the FUEL Filter.

You say it has fuel pressure but that does not mean it can keep up the
flow to a running engine.
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?

 

[Rich Grise]

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:03:17 -0800, Eric R Snow wrote:

Thanks Fritz and all the others who responded. I actually meant to
post this on another group but the car IS electronically controlled.
Anyway Fritz, the car idled roughly, then went from fast to slow idle
back to a normal idle. When driving the car ran well for a little
while but I was going slow. I dropped a gear to see If I could get the
engine to rev fast. It acted like it was leaning out. Then, it would
run normal at a lower throttle. It just occurred to me that the
problem may indeed be with the distributer cap or rotor. Years ago I
had a car that would only run with the timimg way advanced. Turned out
the new rotor was shorting to the rotor shaft. With the advanced
ignition there was less resistance so the spark could occur in the
combustion chamber. I wonder if my car is doing what my old mazda did?
I'll replace the rotor and cap.

Be sure to also replace the plug wires and coil wire. I had one that
acted like this, and finally wouldn't start, and I had it towed, and
it was a $3.50 coil wire.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Eric R Snow]

<SNIP>

Eric

I think I would be looking at the FUEL Filter.

You say it has fuel pressure but that does not mean it can keep up the
flow to a running engine.
The fuel flow observed is AFTER the fuel filter. And it sprays out

FAST. However, I have not measured the fuel pressure and will make up
a fitting today to do just that.
Eric

 

[Eric R Snow]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:02:25 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:03:17 -0800, Eric R Snow wrote:

Thanks Fritz and all the others who responded. I actually meant to
post this on another group but the car IS electronically controlled.
Anyway Fritz, the car idled roughly, then went from fast to slow idle
back to a normal idle. When driving the car ran well for a little
while but I was going slow. I dropped a gear to see If I could get the
engine to rev fast. It acted like it was leaning out. Then, it would
run normal at a lower throttle. It just occurred to me that the
problem may indeed be with the distributer cap or rotor. Years ago I
had a car that would only run with the timimg way advanced. Turned out
the new rotor was shorting to the rotor shaft. With the advanced
ignition there was less resistance so the spark could occur in the
combustion chamber. I wonder if my car is doing what my old mazda did?
I'll replace the rotor and cap.

Be sure to also replace the plug wires and coil wire. I had one that
acted like this, and finally wouldn't start, and I had it towed, and
it was a $3.50 coil wire.

Thanks,
Rich
Rich,

There is no coil wire on this car. Instead the coil is located under
the rotor and there is a solid connection from the coil to the
distributer cap. So replacing the cap will also be replacing the coil
to cap connection.
Eric

 

[Art]

May want to actually have a automotive technician check the thing out. That
is one who is familiar with these MGA/Dodge mixxes.
"Eric R Snow" <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:gr74319ftjc96diru08pbs57qkkjddocf5@4ax.com...

I'm getting desperate. I'm on an island. The car is a '92 Dodge Colt.
The import car fixer says my car isn't "foriegn" enough. The other guy
says it's too "foriegn". Here's what it is doing. Not running. It has
spark, compression, fuel pressure, and the timing is correct. The
manual says that if the car runs while starting and then dies when the
key springs back to the ON position then the fuel pump relay is bad.
But there is no relay where the book says to look and none anywhere I
can see. The dealership doesn't list one. He said to bring in the old
one and they would match it up. The car ran fine to work in the
morning and wouldn't start in the evening. The computer said it was a
bad mass air flow sensor. A new one is 400 bucks so my son went to the
wreckers and picked up a couple for twenty bucks. We put one on and
the car started but ran poorly. I was able to drive it about 1/4 mile
before it died. And while driving it would act like it was leaned out
real bad when I floored it. That was yesterday. Today it won't even
try to start. No matter which mass air flow sensor is connected. The
computer only returns the code now that says all is good. Any help
greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric R Snow