HDTV - experince (tip) - Melbourne Metro

J

Joe G (Home)

Guest
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called to my
friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD). The
complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation (spelling). [I'm
no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels be OK?
Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got worse
, but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room (all
HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and mains
power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power devices
on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals including the
ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved <==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in RF
pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc). Is it
really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known brand
P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]
 
Joe G (Home) wrote:
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called to my
friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD). The
complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation (spelling). [I'm
no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels be OK?
Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got worse
, but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room (all
HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and mains
power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power devices
on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals including the
ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved <==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in RF
pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc). Is it
really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known brand
P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]


Research the actual frequency of the aerial frequency required you are
Click to expand...
using , I expect there is nothing close to a resonant length on the
thing close to that required so it may well need replacing with one more
a-tuned
 
"Joe G (Home)"

Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in
RF pass bands etc?
Click to expand...
** Yep.

Digital only antennas ( for metropolitan use) are small - cos they have no
long elements fitted for receiving channels below ch 6. They also cover the
VHF range up to ch 12 which few analogue antennas do - plus the UHF range.

ABC Digital is on VHF ch 12 so can be problematic.


Is more signal gain required for digital?
Click to expand...

** Post antenna gain will not help.

But a well sited, high gain antenna designed for digital may be essential
in some locations.


..... Phil
 
Joe G (Home) wrote:
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called
to my friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD).
The complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation
(spelling). [I'm no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels
be OK? Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got
worse , but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room
(all HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and
mains power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power
devices on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals
including the ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved <==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's
in RF pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc).
Is it really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known
brand P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]
Click to expand...
**For HDTV you need the following:

1) A decent antenna and good signal.
2) Decent, quad shield cable. (VERY important).

BTW: Surge protection devices are bullshit.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
 
"atec 77" <"atec 77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hmjbga$guj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Joe G (Home) wrote:
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called to
my friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD). The
complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation (spelling).
[I'm no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels be
OK? Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got
worse , but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room (all
HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and mains
power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power devices
on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals including
the ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved <==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in
RF pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc). Is
it really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known
brand P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]


Research the actual frequency of the aerial frequency required you are
using , I expect there is nothing close to a resonant length on the thing
close to that required so it may well need replacing with one more a-tuned
Click to expand...
Yeah, abc digital is 226MHz.
 
"Joe G (Home)"

Yeah, abc digital is 226MHz.
Click to expand...

** In reality, ABC Digital transmits THREE signals in the band from 203 to
210 MHz.



.... Phil
 
Joe G (Home) wrote:
"atec 77" <"atec 77 "@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hmjbga$guj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Joe G (Home) wrote:
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called to
my friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD). The
complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation (spelling).
[I'm no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels be
OK? Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got
worse , but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room (all
HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and mains
power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power devices
on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals including
the ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved <==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in
RF pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc). Is
it really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known
brand P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]


Research the actual frequency of the aerial frequency required you are
using , I expect there is nothing close to a resonant length on the thing
close to that required so it may well need replacing with one more a-tuned

Yeah, abc digital is 226MHz.


The you need to determine how far off the resonant frequency the
Click to expand...
existing aerial is and then replace it with a suitable unit as others
have ( cutting most likely wont work )alluded to
 
Phil Allison wrote:
"Joe G (Home)"

Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV
antenna's in RF pass bands etc?

** Yep.

Digital only antennas ( for metropolitan use) are small - cos they
have no long elements fitted for receiving channels below ch 6. They
also cover the VHF range up to ch 12 which few analogue antennas do - plus
the UHF range.
ABC Digital is on VHF ch 12 so can be problematic.
Click to expand...
And there is the log-periodic antenna type that, whilst lower in gain, make
up for it by having a better frequency response and do not need a balun.
So in many cases the log-periodic type can improve your performance.

Is more signal gain required for digital?


** Post antenna gain will not help.

But a well sited, high gain antenna designed for digital may be
essential in some locations.
Click to expand...
As is good quality RG6 quad shield coax and F connectors. This is usually
the first step in upgrading your antenna system to better support digital.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
 
"David L. Jones"
And there is the log-periodic antenna type that, whilst lower in gain,
make up for it by having a better frequency response and do not need a
balun.
So in many cases the log-periodic type can improve your performance.
Click to expand...

** Think Dave is alluding to one of these:

http://www.academytv.com.au/prod444.htm

Cheap and small - less than 1 metre square.

Conventional Yagi designs give more gain and directionality, but are
somewhat larger and more expensive.




..... Phil
 
atec 77" <"atec 77 wrote:
The you need to determine how far off the resonant frequency the
existing aerial is and then replace it with a suitable unit as others
have ( cutting most likely wont work )alluded to
Click to expand...
..... if you only ever wnt to listen to those ABC channels. Otherwise do
what eveybody else does and get a antenna that generally covers te relevant
band/s .

geoff
 
Phil Allison wrote:
"David L. Jones"

And there is the log-periodic antenna type that, whilst lower in
gain, make up for it by having a better frequency response and do
not need a balun.
So in many cases the log-periodic type can improve your performance.


** Think Dave is alluding to one of these:

http://www.academytv.com.au/prod444.htm

Cheap and small - less than 1 metre square.

Conventional Yagi designs give more gain and directionality, but are
somewhat larger and more expensive.
Click to expand...
Yup.
See:
http://www.aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html#LogPeriodicTheory

I had a noticeable improvement in impulse noise immunity on digital after
installing my log-periodic.

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com
 
On 3/03/2010 12:04 AM, Joe G (Home) wrote:
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called to my
friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD). The
complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation (spelling). [I'm
no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels be OK?
Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got worse
, but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room (all
HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and mains
power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power devices
on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals including the
ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved<==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in RF
pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc). Is it
really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known brand
P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]


Where in the Melbourne metro is your friend located?
Click to expand...
Have they got a clear line-of-sight of Mt Dandenong?
They're not in The Basin, or really close to the foothills somewhere
like that are they?
 
"dmm" <dmmilne@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:nKqdnduPZ8-Y3RPWnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
On 3/03/2010 12:04 AM, Joe G (Home) wrote:
Hi All,

Background
===========
I have a little bit of RF and electronics experience and I was called to
my
friends house to help fix the HDTV signal problems on ABC(HD). The
complaint was poor signal or no signal and some pixelation (spelling).
[I'm
no TV expert].

How could ABC(HD) be poor and the other HD channels and SD channels be
OK?
Hmmm I said.

When I turn on the VCR and or the DVD player etc the pixelation got
worse
, but most significantly on ABC(HD).
Ahhhh I said, it must be the switch mode power supplies causing
interference.

The problem had recently occurred over the last few months.

- Setup External Analog TV antenna and 2way splitter to another room (all
HDTV signals good in the other room)

Connection
========
The setup had a Belkin surge protector that protected the RF and mains
power.

Hence the antenna RF signal when through the surge protector (probably
arrestor inside).


Theory
========
I thought that since the interference was worse with other power devices
on... I suspected that the RF surge arestor must be
coupling noise/interference in to the RF of the HDTV TV set.

Removing /bypassing the RF surge protection ..... all signals including
the
ABC(HD) GOOD ! ;-)

==> Problem Solved<==== (I think - but no RF surge protection).

Comment
=======
Perhaps the signal level to the HDTV set was marginal and the extra
interference triggered a threshold level of noise/interference.


QUESTIONS
=========
Q1
Are digital TV antenna significantly different to Analog TV antenna's in
RF
pass bands etc?

Is more signal gain required for digital?

Q2
Can you suggest any HDTV forums that might focus on Melbourne?

Q3
What are your comments about RF surge protection (and earthing etc). Is
it
really necessary.
Surely the HDTV set has internal surge protection (it's a well known
brand
P..c).

Q4
Do you have any clues , comment or tips you can share?


I welcome your comments.

Thanks in advance

Regs
Joe [not a TV expert]


Where in the Melbourne metro is your friend located?
Have they got a clear line-of-sight of Mt Dandenong?
They're not in The Basin, or really close to the foothills somewhere like
that are they?

Near South Land
Click to expand...
 
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