Hard drive running hot

[Mark Harriss]

I recently bought a Western Dig 120 gig hard
drive and installed it in my PC. Yesterday I noticed
a warm spot on the case right above the new drive.
After pulling the cover off, the drive proved to be
almost too hot to touch at what I'd estimate was a
50 deg case temperature.

My older 5.1 and 6.4 gig WD's had a few hot chips on
the board so I fabricated a heatsink holding bracket
that pressed small heatsinks with thermal grease against
the offending parts to cool them, but this new disk
was of a whole new order, they must use the housing
as a heatsink for the motor FETS or something.

I ended up fitting a cooling fan on a bracket
over the circuit board and it now runs cool to touch.

So it looks like a modern disk has a slightly
underspecced drive circuit so it will expire shortly
after the warranty runs out.

Kind of reminds me of those Connor 40 meg IDE drives
with the lubricant fluid on the disk platters that
turns to glue after a few years and rips the heads
off when powered up from cold.

 

[Rod Speed]

Mark Harriss <ningauble@REMOVETHISbigpond.com> wrote in
message news:e8Ryb.35681$aT.13923@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

I recently bought a Western Dig 120 gig hard drive and
installed it in my PC. Yesterday I noticed a warm spot
on the case right above the new drive. After pulling the
cover off, the drive proved to be almost too hot to touch
at what I'd estimate was a 50 deg case temperature.

Its likely hotter than that if it feels like that.

Unfortunately for you, WD drives are the last of the
drives that dont have an internal SMART temperature
sensor. With a drive with one of those, you can
measure the temperature properly with a decent app.

Can be an eye opener with a drive that feels that hot.

My older 5.1 and 6.4 gig WD's had a few hot chips
on the board so I fabricated a heatsink holding bracket
that pressed small heatsinks with thermal grease against
the offending parts to cool them, but this new disk
was of a whole new order, they must use the housing
as a heatsink for the motor FETS or something.

For much of the heat being generated, actually.

I ended up fitting a cooling fan on a bracket over
the circuit board and it now runs cool to touch.

Yeah, thats a viable fix if you dont mind the noise.

So it looks like a modern disk has a slightly underspecced
drive circuit so it will expire shortly after the warranty runs out.

Thats one hell of a leap of 'logic'

Kind of reminds me of those Connor 40 meg IDE
drives with the lubricant fluid on the disk platters

They never ever had that.

that turns to glue after a few years and rips
the heads off when powered up from cold.

It wasnt only those drives that got that result.

 

[KLR]

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:36:26 GMT, Mark Harriss
<ningauble@REMOVETHISbigpond.com> wrote:

I recently bought a Western Dig 120 gig hard
drive and installed it in my PC. Yesterday I noticed
a warm spot on the case right above the new drive.
After pulling the cover off, the drive proved to be
almost too hot to touch at what I'd estimate was a
50 deg case temperature.

My older 5.1 and 6.4 gig WD's had a few hot chips on
the board so I fabricated a heatsink holding bracket
that pressed small heatsinks with thermal grease against
the offending parts to cool them, but this new disk
was of a whole new order, they must use the housing
as a heatsink for the motor FETS or something.

I ended up fitting a cooling fan on a bracket
over the circuit board and it now runs cool to touch.

So it looks like a modern disk has a slightly
underspecced drive circuit so it will expire shortly
after the warranty runs out.

Kind of reminds me of those Connor 40 meg IDE drives
with the lubricant fluid on the disk platters that
turns to glue after a few years and rips the heads
off when powered up from cold.


It seems to be the trend to having hotter and hotter drives.

just got a maxtor 200 gig drive to replace a 150gig I had had for the
last 18 months (also maxtor). I still had the old one in the case -
so I plugged both in and let both run for a couple of hours.

the new one almost burnt my fingers where the old one was comfortably
warm.

Not a good thing.

 

[Rheilly Phoull]

"KLR" <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1ggosvs9v0dgsmg7efc0fgth3fdatpkh4b@4ax.com...

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:36:26 GMT, Mark Harriss
ningauble@REMOVETHISbigpond.com> wrote:



I recently bought a Western Dig 120 gig hard
drive and installed it in my PC. Yesterday I noticed
a warm spot on the case right above the new drive.
After pulling the cover off, the drive proved to be
almost too hot to touch at what I'd estimate was a
50 deg case temperature.

My older 5.1 and 6.4 gig WD's had a few hot chips on
the board so I fabricated a heatsink holding bracket
that pressed small heatsinks with thermal grease against
the offending parts to cool them, but this new disk
was of a whole new order, they must use the housing
as a heatsink for the motor FETS or something.

I ended up fitting a cooling fan on a bracket
over the circuit board and it now runs cool to touch.

So it looks like a modern disk has a slightly
underspecced drive circuit so it will expire shortly
after the warranty runs out.

Kind of reminds me of those Connor 40 meg IDE drives
with the lubricant fluid on the disk platters that
turns to glue after a few years and rips the heads
off when powered up from cold.


It seems to be the trend to having hotter and hotter drives.

just got a maxtor 200 gig drive to replace a 150gig I had had for the
last 18 months (also maxtor). I still had the old one in the case -
so I plugged both in and let both run for a couple of hours.

the new one almost burnt my fingers where the old one was comfortably
warm.

Not a good thing.

FWIW, a rough guide, (for males!! women have asbestos fingers) is that if
you can only touch it for a couple of seconds thats about 60deg C.

--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull

 

[KoRRupT]

"KLR" <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1ggosvs9v0dgsmg7efc0fgth3fdatpkh4b@4ax.com...
| On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:36:26 GMT, Mark Harriss
| <ningauble@REMOVETHISbigpond.com> wrote:
|
| It seems to be the trend to having hotter and hotter drives.
|
| the new one almost burnt my fingers where the old one was comfortably
| warm.
|


why is that HD's are getting hotter? is it because they are running faster
and more power is consumed?... hence more heat is generated?

or is it just bad design? and like the OP wrote... to cut out around the
warranty expires?

 

[Rod Speed]

"KoRRupT" <me@nowhere> wrote in message news:3fcd1991@duster.adelaide.on.net...

"KLR" <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1ggosvs9v0dgsmg7efc0fgth3fdatpkh4b@4ax.com...
| On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:36:26 GMT, Mark Harriss
| <ningauble@REMOVETHISbigpond.com> wrote:
|
| It seems to be the trend to having hotter and hotter drives.
|
| the new one almost burnt my fingers where the old one was comfortably
| warm.
|

why is that HD's are getting hotter? is it because they are running faster
and more power is consumed?... hence more heat is generated?

Yep, thats the main effect.

or is it just bad design?

Nope.

and like the OP wrote... to cut out around the warranty expires?

Utterly mindless conspiracy theory.

 

[amstereo - matt2]

the friction from the platters causes the most heat because you are talking
about spinning a disk or 2 at 7200 turns per minute, the units are going to
get hot, poor design / ventilation makes it worse, strap some heat sinks to
it if you want. crouded cases are bad for hard disks due to heat. above
50deg' is getting to the 'too-much' point

 

[Brian Goldsmith]

"amstereo - matt2" <wrote


the friction from the platters causes the most heat because you are
talking
about spinning a disk or 2 at 7200 turns per minute, the units are going
to
get hot,

***** More unashamed public wanking from the northern moron,the mind
boggles!!!

Brian Goldsmith.

 

[amstereo - matt2]

an insault without backing support, typical - anyone ELSE spot a fault i my
post?

 

[Mark van der Eynden]

"Brian Goldsmith" <brian.goldsmith@nospamecho1.com.au> wrote in message news:<hbCzb.38938$aT.23398@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

"amstereo - matt2" <wrote


the friction from the platters causes the most heat because you are
talking
about spinning a disk or 2 at 7200 turns per minute, the units are going
to
get hot,

***** More unashamed public wanking from the northern moron,the mind
boggles!!!

Brian Goldsmith.

Brian, He's on the money here.

In the 'good old days' when hard drives were still called winchesters,
they went at a maximum speed of 3600 rpm and were 14 inches in
diameter. The friction of the air meant that it took 1/4 horse power
to keep them spinning. (and friction makes heat) They couldn't spin
them faster than 3600 rpm because the temperature changes between the
inside and outside tracks would cause the disks to warp.

So we can scale things differently these days due to the different
diameters, but for fun calculate the speed of the disk at the outside
edge!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Mark van der Eynden" <mvandere@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:48ed3358.0312041317.33170c67@posting.google.com...

"Brian Goldsmith" <brian.goldsmith@nospamecho1.com.au> wrote in message
news:<hbCzb.38938$aT.23398@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
"amstereo - matt2" <wrote


the friction from the platters causes the most heat because you are
talking
about spinning a disk or 2 at 7200 turns per minute, the units are going
to
get hot,

***** More unashamed public wanking from the northern moron,the mind
boggles!!!

Brian Goldsmith.

Brian, He's on the money here.

In the 'good old days' when hard drives were still called winchesters,
they went at a maximum speed of 3600 rpm and were 14 inches in
diameter. The friction of the air meant that it took 1/4 horse power
to keep them spinning. (and friction makes heat) They couldn't spin
them faster than 3600 rpm because the temperature changes between the
inside and outside tracks would cause the disks to warp.

So we can scale things differently these days due to the different
diameters, but for fun calculate the speed of the disk at the outside
edge!

Cheers,

Mark

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum sealed drive platter is
going to encounter air friction? The heat is due to the motor. Motors were
bigger back then because platters were too - the 'bad old days' of one
horse-shoe magnet per bit of data (well, it seems that way looking back).
The warping on old platters was certainly due to the effects of spin and
heat, but not air.

Ken

 

[Adrian Jansen]

Please show proof that a modern hard drive platter spins in a vacuum.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoatm$24itr8$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum sealed drive platter is
going to encounter air friction? The heat is due to the motor. Motors were
bigger back then because platters were too - the 'bad old days' of one
horse-shoe magnet per bit of data (well, it seems that way looking back).
The warping on old platters was certainly due to the effects of spin and
heat, but not air.

Ken

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:bqoatm$24itr8$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

"Mark van der Eynden" <mvandere@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:48ed3358.0312041317.33170c67@posting.google.com...
"Brian Goldsmith" <brian.goldsmith@nospamecho1.com.au> wrote in message
news:<hbCzb.38938$aT.23398@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
"amstereo - matt2" <wrote


the friction from the platters causes the most heat because you are
talking
about spinning a disk or 2 at 7200 turns per minute, the units are going
to
get hot,

***** More unashamed public wanking from the northern moron,the mind
boggles!!!

Brian Goldsmith.

Brian, He's on the money here.

In the 'good old days' when hard drives were still called winchesters,
they went at a maximum speed of 3600 rpm and were 14 inches in
diameter. The friction of the air meant that it took 1/4 horse power
to keep them spinning. (and friction makes heat) They couldn't spin
them faster than 3600 rpm because the temperature changes between the
inside and outside tracks would cause the disks to warp.

So we can scale things differently these days due to the different
diameters, but for fun calculate the speed of the disk at the outside
edge!

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum
sealed drive platter is going to encounter air friction?

They were never vacuum sealed. They have atmospheric
pressure in them and the heads fly using that.

The heat is due to the motor.

Yes, but the motor is obviously overcoming what friction there is.

Motors were bigger back then because platters were
too - the 'bad old days' of one horse-shoe magnet per
bit of data (well, it seems that way looking back).

Some did have a head per track.

The warping on old platters was certainly
due to the effects of spin and heat, but not air.

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Adrian Jansen" <qqv@noqqwhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fcfc15d$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...

Please show proof that a modern hard drive platter spins in a vacuum.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoatm$24itr8$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum sealed drive platter
is
going to encounter air friction? The heat is due to the motor. Motors
were
bigger back then because platters were too - the 'bad old days' of one
horse-shoe magnet per bit of data (well, it seems that way looking
back).
The warping on old platters was certainly due to the effects of spin and
heat, but not air.

Ken

Vacuum-sealed, not in a vacuum. There is air present, but not enough for air

friction to be the principal cause of heat.

Ken

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:bqoiaf$257kdf$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

"Adrian Jansen" <qqv@noqqwhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fcfc15d$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
Please show proof that a modern hard drive platter spins in a vacuum.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoatm$24itr8$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum sealed drive platter
is
going to encounter air friction? The heat is due to the motor. Motors
were
bigger back then because platters were too - the 'bad old days' of one
horse-shoe magnet per bit of data (well, it seems that way looking
back).
The warping on old platters was certainly due to the effects of spin and
heat, but not air.

Vacuum-sealed, not in a vacuum.

It isnt even vacuum sealed. There's a
pressure equalisation hole in the chamber.

There is air present,

Just as much as outside it in fact.

> but not enough for air friction to be the principal cause of heat.

 

[jerry]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:bqpdli$25s5pu$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de:

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoiaf$257kdf$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Adrian Jansen" <qqv@noqqwhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fcfc15d$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
Please show proof that a modern hard drive platter spins in a
vacuum.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoatm$24itr8$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum sealed drive
platter
is
going to encounter air friction? The heat is due to the motor.
Motors
were
bigger back then because platters were too - the 'bad old days'
of one horse-shoe magnet per bit of data (well, it seems that way
looking
back).
The warping on old platters was certainly due to the effects of
spin and heat, but not air.

Vacuum-sealed, not in a vacuum.

It isnt even vacuum sealed. There's a
pressure equalisation hole in the chamber.

There is air present,

Just as much as outside it in fact.

but not enough for air friction to be the principal cause of heat.

To add fuel to the fire(!) years ago IBM Hard disk assembly's (HDA's)
where under some significant degree of vacuum. These where 120 lb 1Gb
things about a foot in diameter. they made an interesting popping sound
if dropped - don't ask me how I know this...

I've had the opportunity to dismantle a couple of failed (logic, not
mechanical) IBM 40gb and 80gb desktop drives and they're not under
vacuum, there was a vent hole of some sort covered by an inspection
sticker.

My question is what speed do the disk's need to running to produce the
amount of heat being discussed here?


If its a 10,000rpm 3.5" drive we're talking about

(3.5*Pi*10,0000*60) to give a speed of 6598200 ins per hour or 104 mph

A 7200 drive is about 74mph.

If I can assume there is air in there then 104mph doesn't sound fast
enough? What do you think? Also wouldn't the air rotate withe the disk
platter to some degree soe the friction effect such as it may be would be
spread between platter and housing at some reduced speed.

The 7200 scsi drives I have draw 1A@12v just to run. I'd have thought
theres far more heat being produced from that than is possible from
friction. ?

 

[Rod Speed]

"jerry" <jerry@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Xns944883A403328jerrynospamcom@199.45.49.11...

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:bqpdli$25s5pu$1@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de:

"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoiaf$257kdf$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Adrian Jansen" <qqv@noqqwhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fcfc15d$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
Please show proof that a modern hard drive platter spins in a
vacuum.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
"Ken Taylor" <ken123@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:bqoatm$24itr8$1@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...

Well no, I hate to argue, but tell me how a vacuum sealed drive
platter
is
going to encounter air friction? The heat is due to the motor.
Motors
were
bigger back then because platters were too - the 'bad old days'
of one horse-shoe magnet per bit of data (well, it seems that way
looking
back).
The warping on old platters was certainly due to the effects of
spin and heat, but not air.

Vacuum-sealed, not in a vacuum.

It isnt even vacuum sealed. There's a
pressure equalisation hole in the chamber.

There is air present,

Just as much as outside it in fact.

but not enough for air friction to be the principal cause of heat.



To add fuel to the fire(!) years ago IBM Hard disk assembly's (HDA's)
where under some significant degree of vacuum. These where 120 lb 1Gb
things about a foot in diameter. they made an interesting popping sound
if dropped - don't ask me how I know this...

I've had the opportunity to dismantle a couple of failed (logic, not
mechanical) IBM 40gb and 80gb desktop drives and they're not under
vacuum, there was a vent hole of some sort covered by an inspection
sticker.

My question is what speed do the disk's need to running
to produce the amount of heat being discussed here?

Plenty of 3600 rpm 5.25" hard drives got stinking hot.

If its a 10,000rpm 3.5" drive we're talking about

(3.5*Pi*10,0000*60) to give a speed of 6598200 ins per hour or 104 mph

A 7200 drive is about 74mph.

If I can assume there is air in there then 104mph
doesn't sound fast enough? What do you think?

There isnt a lot of clearance between the rim of the platter
and the housing. Presumably there must be some effect on
temp, but I doubt its a very significant source of the drive temp.

Also wouldn't the air rotate withe the disk platter to some degree

Yes, but those surfaces are also quite close to the
static inner surfaces of the rest of the drive too.

soe the friction effect such as it may be would be spread
between platter and housing at some reduced speed.

Over not much distance.

The 7200 scsi drives I have draw 1A@12v just to run.
I'd have thought theres far more heat being produced
from that than is possible from friction. ?

Yep, thats my gut feeling too. Specially when the platters
do spin down relatively slowly when the drive is turned off.
There cant be all that much total friction involved.