Guitar body wiring and pickup query

[N_Cook]

Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating ,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge
height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H
Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control
body rotated to next.
The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to
the other.
Would guitarist people here find these string action heights above the pole
pieces reasonable (i'm not a guitarist)
7 to 8 mm fingerboard
4 to 6mm bridge
no mention of representative heights in that pdf

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ivrnhr$t4f$1@dont-email.me...

Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating
,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge
height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as
proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H
Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body
and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the
control
body rotated to next.

The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due
to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative
to
the other.

Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the
humbucker into a single coil pickup.



Gareth.

 

[N_Cook]

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:dIeUp.12655$V25.6349@newsfe21.ams2...

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ivrnhr$t4f$1@dont-email.me...
Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and
rotating
,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge
height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as
proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H
Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body
and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the
control
body rotated to next.


The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground ,
rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is
the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was
due
to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180
relative
to
the other.

Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the
humbucker into a single coil pickup.



Gareth.

So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option
to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output?
While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the
knobs.
It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme
frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer
though.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the
option
to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output?

Because they have a different sound.
You may want a low output clean sound that does not distort the amplifier,
and also be able to switch in a different sounding high output option that
will overdrive the amplifier for solos perhaps.
In effect the switch makes one pickup into two.


Gareth.

 

[N_Cook]

Robert Macy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b6465be-eb4b-425b-97d4-f02ec56934a2@l37g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 16, 5:04 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Gareth Magennis <sound.serv...@btconnect.com> wrote in message

news:dIeUp.12655$V25.6349@newsfe21.ams2...







"N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ivrnhr$t4f$1@dont-email.me...
Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and
rotating
,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and
bridge
height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as
proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H
Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched
the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded
body
and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the
control
body rotated to next.

The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground ,
rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is
the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was
due
to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180
relative
to
the other.

Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the
humbucker into a single coil pickup.

Gareth.

So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the
option
to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output?
While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double
back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the
2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by
the
knobs.
It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme
frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer
though.

may work...Loctite
easy to apply, easy to 'remove', yet acts like a locking nut

+++++++

For the 3w sw I found some knurled ring nuts of right diameter but wrong
thread. Cut into the thickness with a 0.5mm thick Dremmel disc to leave
about 1.5 mm thick . That matched the thread near enough to turn on by hand
and then pliers and then locked the proper knurled nut over that. All
controls are mounted through quite thick wood which presumably changes
dimensions with humidity etc

 

[Robert Macy]

On Jul 16, 5:04 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Gareth Magennis <sound.serv...@btconnect.com> wrote in message

news:dIeUp.12655$V25.6349@newsfe21.ams2...







"N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ivrnhr$t4f$1@dont-email.me...
Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and
rotating
,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge
height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as
proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H
Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body
and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the
control
body rotated to next.

The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground ,
rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is
the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was
due
to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180
relative
to
the other.

Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the
humbucker into a single coil pickup.

Gareth.

So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option
to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output?
While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the
knobs.
It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme
frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer
though.

may work...Loctite
easy to apply, easy to 'remove', yet acts like a locking nut

 

[Gareth Magennis]

While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double
back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the
2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by
the
knobs.

Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation
of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary.

This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the nuts
coming loose in the first instance.



Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes.

Gareth.

 

[Smitty Two]

In article <zklUp.9603$Z04.9228@newsfe07.ams2>,
"Gareth Magennis" <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double
back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the
2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by
the
knobs.




Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation
of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary.

This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the nuts
coming loose in the first instance.



Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes.

Gareth.

I don't know when the OP sleeps. He'll spend 8 hrs. to avoid spending
two cents. If someone used a wrong-thread home-made nut on my equipment,
claiming it was "close enough," I'd be outraged. And, as far as loctite,
two observations:

1. It will destroy thermoplastics
2. There are many formulations. The "permanent" stuff is aptly named.

 

[N_Cook]

Smitty Two <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
newsrestwhich-B48561.12555616072011@news.eternal-september.org...

In article <zklUp.9603$Z04.9228@newsfe07.ams2>,
"Gareth Magennis" <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double
back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between
the
2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find
an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden
by
the
knobs.




Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any
rotation
of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary.

This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the
nuts
coming loose in the first instance.



Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes.

Gareth.

I don't know when the OP sleeps. He'll spend 8 hrs. to avoid spending
two cents. If someone used a wrong-thread home-made nut on my equipment,
claiming it was "close enough," I'd be outraged. And, as far as loctite,
two observations:

1. It will destroy thermoplastics
2. There are many formulations. The "permanent" stuff is aptly named.

I hate loctite - it binds too well but on the other hand it goes off too
quickly even if stored in a fridge. I don't know if 20mm/1.25 in thru
chassis fuse holders are thermoplastic but I wish I had a fiver for each one
I've come across that it is impossible to separate back nut from the barrel
without cracking the barrel and having to replace the whole lot.
1 turn of the wrong thread, originally 2 turns , is just about right for
this use, as I said it will migrate around the thread by finger pressure ,
so where is the harm of such a bodge. I would not try antd force 2 turns of
the wrong thread in such circumstances.

 

[N_Cook]

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:zklUp.9603$Z04.9228@newsfe07.ams2...

While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double
back-to-back
nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between
the
2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by
the
knobs.




Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation
of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary.

This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the
nuts
coming loose in the first instance.



Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes.

Gareth.

Strange you should refer to Occam ( Wm o' Occam , Surrey , England, IIRC)
I run a sci caf and this coming monday is the philosophy of science and
Occam comes into it apparently
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/scicaf.htm
coming back from OT
Sections of hot melt sticks wedged in and then soldering iron and hot melt
string "soldering " to lock in place is my resolution of this oft seen
guitar innards problem. so even if the lock nuts work loose the controls
will not rotate.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

Sections of hot melt sticks wedged in and then soldering iron and hot melt
string "soldering " to lock in place is my resolution of this oft seen
guitar innards problem. so even if the lock nuts work loose the controls
will not rotate.

Erm. didn't I just say that?



Gareth.

 

[N_Cook]

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
newsVnUp.41270$2I6.6743@newsfe27.ams2...

Sections of hot melt sticks wedged in and then soldering iron and hot
melt
string "soldering " to lock in place is my resolution of this oft seen
guitar innards problem. so even if the lock nuts work loose the controls
will not rotate.





Erm. didn't I just say that?



Gareth.

In circumstances like this I use hotmelt glue sticks, unmelted , more as
engineering plastic. Cut and sliced with gardening secateurs to wedge them
in place and only melting the ends together. Much less messy for anyone
having to get in there later, to replace pots etc

 

[N_Cook]

All

controls are mounted through quite thick wood which presumably changes
dimensions with humidity etc

Just measured, 8mm of natural wood thickness , no wonder there is problems
of electric guitar controls loosening and turning.

 

[Wild_Bill]

There are a variety of different wiring methods used for various reasons..
series, parallel, phase-reversed etc.

Many guitar makers use very cheap pots, and many pots made today don't have
the extending tab that was standard years ago, which would prevent the pot
(or rotary switch) from rotating when mounted (typically) to a metal panel..
the tab/stub type pots required a second small hole to be drilled near the
bushing hole.
Many times, the tabs were just bent to the side to eliminate the need for
the second hole.

Mounting pots to wood/plastics etc, could really benefit from having those
integral tabs, if the manufacturers would install them.

Some players aren't familiar with the cheesy way the pots are mounted, and
end up rotating them hard to the stops, forgetting where they were set or
whatever.
So, even if the mounting nuts are locked with threadlocker, it doesn't mean
that some players won't turn the knobs past the stops.

Some guitar builder/repairers (not manufacturers) use a signal cable with a
bare shield, and solder the shield on the cans of the pots which helps keep
the pots in the originally-installed orientation, although this practice
isn't a positive locating method (the center conductor in this type of
shielded signal cable is insulated with fabric, not vinyl, so the fabric is
essentially unaffected by the soldering heat).

There are locking washers for mounting pots and switches to softer materials
which have very aggressive teeth for biting into the enclosure material and
the case of the component.

I dunno where Nigel gets his Loctite products, but they don't go bad
prematurely.. I've had tubes of the red and blue that were more than a few
years old, just stored in toolboxes or on shelves.
An absence of air is what kicks the formula off, and the bottles are
specific permeable plastics to prevent kick-off.

BTW, there are some more recent Loctite products in tape form, and a stick
formula in a chapstic-like dispenser. Both variations work as well as the
liquid threadlockers, and also have long shelf lives.

FWIW, the inside walls of the pockets/cavities in electric guitars are often
coated with a conductive/shielding coating, so if signal/audio + terminals
or wiring are touching the coating, the output will be weak.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ivrnhr$t4f$1@dont-email.me...

Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating
,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge
height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as
proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H
Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body
and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the
control
body rotated to next.
The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due
to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative
to
the other.
Would guitarist people here find these string action heights above the
pole
pieces reasonable (i'm not a guitarist)
7 to 8 mm fingerboard
4 to 6mm bridge
no mention of representative heights in that pdf

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:04:37 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:dIeUp.12655$V25.6349@newsfe21.ams2...


"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ivrnhr$t4f$1@dont-email.me...
Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and
rotating
,
he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and
bridge height.
EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as
proportionate
readings
http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-H1-H4.pdf
Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks
as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the
outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded
body and
after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the
control
body rotated to next.


The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground ,
rather
than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is
the
function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was
due
to
reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180
relative
to
the other.

Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the
humbucker into a single coil pickup.



Gareth.




So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the
option to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output? While at
it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts
on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2
pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an
aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by
the knobs.
It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme
frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be
closer though.

Most humbuckers are made to give the owner to switch coils on and off.
Why don't you google for some wiring diagrams there are many available.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

 

[N_Cook]

--
--
Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AzHUp.93007$BZ.67270@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...

I dunno where Nigel gets his Loctite products, but they don't go bad
prematurely.. I've had tubes of the red and blue that were more than a few
years old, just stored in toolboxes or on shelves.
An absence of air is what kicks the formula off, and the bottles are
specific permeable plastics to prevent kick-off.

Since I've been putting opened superglue capsules in a jam-jar with a sachet
of activated silica gel crystals - now no problems with that glue going hard
.. The complete opposite situation to loctite it would seem.
Epoxy seems to go on and on. I'm still using a bulk pack 1Kg plus 1 Kg tubes
of epoxy that must be 20 years old.