Grundfos pump motor info. needed.

[rg26ce1991@hotmail.com]

Greetings group.
A customer has given me the following pump to try to repair.

Grundfos.
TYPE:- JQ4 A-A-CVBP
MODEL:- B96001190 P1 9605

The pump contains a circuit board that would look at home inside a
computer.

The mains supply is converted to DC and is filtered.

One large sealed module appears to be the rectifier and power control
unit.

Three wires enter the motor, and another three connect to a pressure
transducer.

When turned on, the shaft turns a few degrees then stops. And a light
flashes
6 times, pauses then repeats.

Can anyone please tell me if the DC supply on the board can be
connected directly into the motor?

Which two of the three wires would I use and what polarity?
Thanks in advance,
Russell Griffiths.

 

[Craig Hart]

http://www.grundfos.com/

They have a wealth of technical info in the service section of the website.
The light is obviously flashing an error code - go look it up??

I wouldn't try to run the motor direct from DC - the PCB is there for a
reason. If straight DC was all that was required, nobody would bother with
complex electronics...



<rg26ce1991@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106047392.968294.163630@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Greetings group.
A customer has given me the following pump to try to repair.

Grundfos.
TYPE:- JQ4 A-A-CVBP
MODEL:- B96001190 P1 9605

The pump contains a circuit board that would look at home inside a
computer.

The mains supply is converted to DC and is filtered.

One large sealed module appears to be the rectifier and power control
unit.

Three wires enter the motor, and another three connect to a pressure
transducer.

When turned on, the shaft turns a few degrees then stops. And a light
flashes
6 times, pauses then repeats.

Can anyone please tell me if the DC supply on the board can be
connected directly into the motor?

Which two of the three wires would I use and what polarity?
Thanks in advance,
Russell Griffiths.

 

[KLR]

On 18 Jan 2005 03:23:12 -0800, "rg26ce1991@hotmail.com"
<rg26ce1991@hotmail.com> wrote:

Greetings group.
A customer has given me the following pump to try to repair.

Grundfos.
TYPE:- JQ4 A-A-CVBP
MODEL:- B96001190 P1 9605

The pump contains a circuit board that would look at home inside a
computer.

The mains supply is converted to DC and is filtered.

One large sealed module appears to be the rectifier and power control
unit.

Three wires enter the motor, and another three connect to a pressure
transducer.

When turned on, the shaft turns a few degrees then stops. And a light
flashes
6 times, pauses then repeats.

Can anyone please tell me if the DC supply on the board can be
connected directly into the motor?

Which two of the three wires would I use and what polarity?
Thanks in advance,
Russell Griffiths.

I wouldnt mess with it without further investigation, opening the
motor if possible and seeing the internal connections would help a lot

THat 3 wire arrangement could mean anything.

Could be an AC motor with a simulated AC waveform coming from the
controller, if its 3 wires - it could even be simulated 3 phase
controller - similar to used in the Fisher and paykel "smart drive"
washing machines. The motor might not necessarily be 240v either.

(another example is these newwe "inverter" air conditioners that vary
motor speed, though I dont know how they work in detail, but am told
they have a similar arrangement of 3 phase motor inside)

-----------------


other things to think of:

is the 3rd wire a "start" winding, a rotation sensor, temperature
sensor etc ?

is the pressure transducer stuffed and causing the problem ?

often these things arent necessarily the computer board but sensors or
switches attatched to them giving wrong readings.

 

[rg26ce1991@hotmail.com]

Thanks for the replies.
I didn't expext any replies this late tonight.

A reasonable suggestion Craig. I will try to look it up.

The reason for the complex electronics is to regulate the water
pressure.
But the owner does not care about controlling the pressure. He only
needs to use it as a water transfer pump.

I had similar ideas about the third wire myself, this is why I have not
experimented with it.

It is even possible the motor might be crook.

I work on more tv's than motors. But I will attempt to open the motor
to see what I can learn.

Thanks,
Russell Griffiths.

 

[rg26ce1991@hotmail.com]

Thanks for the info.
As the motor will only spin for a 1/4 second, a storage CRO would
probably
be needed to see any waveform. I don't have one of these.

I had another look at the motor, I cannot see any way to get it apart
without inflicting damage.
But the three wires do seem to run to windings inside the motor.

I had a look at the Grundfos site, but cannot even find the model
listed, let alone any useful info.

Thanks.
Russell Griffiths.

 

[Russ]

rg26ce1991@hotmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the info.
As the motor will only spin for a 1/4 second, a storage CRO would
probably
be needed to see any waveform. I don't have one of these.

I had another look at the motor, I cannot see any way to get it apart
without inflicting damage.
But the three wires do seem to run to windings inside the motor.

You can probably to check to see if it's a 3 phase permanent magnet motor
just by measuring the resistance accross the 3 wires to the motor - the
resistances shoud all be identical.

I think these motors use some kind of current sensing on each phase to
sychronise the drive, so perhaps that part of the controller is faulty,
causing it to give up when it doesn't sense any movement.

 

[hadda hadda]

<rg26ce1991@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106047392.968294.163630@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Greetings group.
A customer has given me the following pump to try to repair.

Grundfos.
TYPE:- JQ4 A-A-CVBP
MODEL:- B96001190 P1 9605
Grundfos has it service covering Australia. They do not want anybody to

repair their gear but themselves!

The pump contains a circuit board that would look at home inside a
computer.
It is three phase inverter with the control circuits for: full tank-empty

tank, flow(dry wel) electrodes, and few other thingies.

The mains supply is converted to DC and is filtered.
Yeah, pump assembly supposed to run from the solar panels or batteries (if

model supports it).

One large sealed module appears to be the rectifier and power control
unit.

Three wires enter the motor, and another three connect to a pressure
transducer.

Yes, it is three phase power for the motor.

When turned on, the shaft turns a few degrees then stops. And a light
flashes
6 times, pauses then repeats.

You should chek manual for fault code?

Can anyone please tell me if the DC supply on the board can be
connected directly into the motor?

Of course not. The motor is three phase one. "DC supply" is an inverter
producing 90 to 110Vac as far as I remember...

Which two of the three wires would I use and what polarity?
None.

Thanks in advance,
Russell Griffiths.

 

[rg26ce1991@hotmail.com]

Thanks for all the info.

I don't have the manual.

I found an article in S.C. magazine (04/00) that shows how to power a 3
phase motor from 240vac by using 2 capacitors.

But if you are right about the inverter producing 90 to 110vac, it
won't work with this motor.

I know a bloke who repairs motors and will lend me capacitors to
experiment with.

There is probably nothing much to loose, the owner is not prepared to
have a pump repairer replace the control board which is what I
suggested he do.

Thanks,
Russell Griffiths.