Good UPS for network equip?

[DaveC]

Have one client that keeps having network lock up. Have replaced the router,
but this doesn't help. Happens every 2 weeks, or so.

There's so many UPS's on the market, I want to weed out the bad ones.

What's your experience re. reliable and trash makes and models?

Thanks,
--
Please, no Google links. I wouldn't ask a
question here if I hadn't done that already.

DaveC
me@privacy.net
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[Zak]

DaveC wrote:

Have one client that keeps having network lock up. Have replaced the router,
but this doesn't help. Happens every 2 weeks, or so.

There's so many UPS's on the market, I want to weed out the bad ones.

What's your experience re. reliable and trash makes and models?

Well, if I read your questoin correctly, you suspect interference as a
problem, not power interruptions.

This means you must look for a UPS that converts AC to DC to AC all the
time, and not one of the 'install next to your computer' ones that use
AC in = AC out and only switch from DC to AC in case of an outage.

A filter may be more effective.


Thomas

 

[Charles Schuler]

"DaveC" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BD2286590003CAF0F02845B0@news.individual.net...

Have one client that keeps having network lock up. Have replaced the
router,
but this doesn't help. Happens every 2 weeks, or so.

There's so many UPS's on the market, I want to weed out the bad ones.

What's your experience re. reliable and trash makes and models?

Thanks,

These are decent: http://www.tripplite.com/

 

[w_tom]

You are fooling yourself if you think a UPS will solve
networking problems. If AC electric is a reason for network
problems, then the solution begins by finding a defective
safety ground or eliminating the power supply that retail
lists for less than $50.

Solution to your network problem starts with running
comprehensive diagnostic. One had intermittent problems. Ran
the comprehensive diagnostic in the massive data exchange test
- usually the last and optional test. Eventually, a defective
NIC would lock out under this massive data transfer. Such
comprehensive diagnostics assume you have two NICs from the
same manufacturer.

Plug-in UPSes, such as the recommended Tripplite, connect
computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup
mode. Where is the protection? Furthermore, these UPSes
typically output some of their dirtiest electricity when in
battery backup mode. If a network was suffering from line
noise, then power the computer from a UPS in battery backup
mode. The network would crash immediately. If not, then AC
mains noise is not a reason for network failure.

One example of a UPS under light load is demonstrated. When
in battery backup, the 120 VAC output is two 200 volt square
waves with a 270 volt spike between those square waves.
Dirtiest electricity is from that UPS in battery backup mode.
But not problematic to any properly constructed computer. If
that noise caused computer problems, then the computer
hardware was defective when purchased or assembled.

Find the problem rather than trying to cure a symptom. IOW
first identify the reason for a problem before speculating -
before 'fixing' everything.

Another 'suspect' is existing cables. Also execute those
diagnostics with computers connected together by a known good
cable, no router, and not using existing building cables.
Even an ethernet cable plug or mismatched cable pairs can be
reason for intermittent - which is why the loope (magnifying
lens) is important for visual inspection of each RJ-45
connector. Identify reason for problem before fixing
problem. Provided are tools to accomplish that. A UPS to fix
the problem means the computer has defective hardware. Don't
cure defective computer hardware with a UPS.

DaveC wrote:

Have one client that keeps having network lock up. Have replaced
the router, but this doesn't help. Happens every 2 weeks, or so.

There's so many UPS's on the market, I want to weed out the bad ones.

What's your experience re. reliable and trash makes and models?

 

[DaveC]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:55:30 -0700, w_tom wrote
(in article <40FD94D2.726E83FF@hotmail.com&gt:

Another 'suspect' is existing cables. Also execute those
diagnostics with computers connected together by a known good
cable, no router, and not using existing building cables.
Even an ethernet cable plug or mismatched cable pairs can be
reason for intermittent - which is why the loope (magnifying
lens) is important for visual inspection of each RJ-45
connector. Identify reason for problem before fixing
problem. Provided are tools to accomplish that. A UPS to fix
the problem means the computer has defective hardware. Don't
cure defective computer hardware with a UPS.

When powering off the router and back on is the only way to bring the network
back up again, this points to dirty power. I don't change cables, or reboot
the computer, or dust off the router to bring up the network, I power cycle
the router. It is the only way to fix the "lockup".

The router has been replaced once, hoping that it was defective. Symptom
remained unchanged.

I'm open to other suggestions, but my diagnostics points to a power problem.

Thanks,
--
Please, no Google links. I wouldn't ask a
question here if I hadn't done that already.

DaveC
me@privacy.net
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Please reply in the news group

 

[Bob Shuman]

You don't indicate the manufacturer or model number of the router, but I'd
also suggest that the occasional "lock up" that requires power cycling could
be the result of a software bug in the product itself that might be
overflowing the device's memory. Just a thought, but you might want to do a
quick check on the specific make/model to see if there are known problems
and if there is a newer operating system load or patch that addresses this
symptom. Or, alternatively, replace with another (different) router and see
if the problem goes away. (You indicated it was replaced once already, but
possibly with the same make/model with the same inherent defect?)

Good luck.

Bob

"DaveC" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BD2351DC0000E039F04075B0@news.individual.net...

When powering off the router and back on is the only way to bring the
network
back up again, this points to dirty power. I don't change cables, or
reboot
the computer, or dust off the router to bring up the network, I power
cycle
the router. It is the only way to fix the "lockup".

The router has been replaced once, hoping that it was defective. Symptom
remained unchanged.

I'm open to other suggestions, but my diagnostics points to a power
problem.

Thanks,
--
Please, no Google links. I wouldn't ask a
question here if I hadn't done that already.

DaveC
me@privacy.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group

 

[w_tom]

How do you activate a computer's master reset after computer
has locked? Either press the master reset button, or power
down and up. Nowhere did this master reset solution indicate
bad power. Demonstrated is that a suspected internal hardware
problem can be cleared by the router's master reset circuit.
A circuit that operates only when powered off then on.

Now what causes the internal computer and logic to lock up?
And what specific diagnostic points to power problems?

Your symptoms only demonstrate that lockup can be
temporarily eliminated by a master reset. What diagnostic
program points specifically to power as reason for problem?

Did you run the comprehensive diagnostics as described in a
previous post? If not, then experience from a few decades
says you are still 'spinning wheels'. Provided in that
previous post is how to obtain the missing and necessary
facts.

For example, is problem in the router or is it something
else? Based upon what was posted, we still don't even know
that. Described were comprehensive tests executed from NIC
to NIC both via a router and without the router. So far, I
only read enough information to 'speculate' that the router
might be a problem. And what kind of router? What is the
networking type? 10Base2? Conventional 100 Mhz Ethernet?
Whose router? For that matter, is it a router or a hub?

Currently posted is no single reason to suspect power as
reason for failure. Currently posted are reasons to believe
that a master reset inside router can clear the lockout. But
that still does not say whether the master reset clears a
problem internal to the router or a problem with a connected
NIC. Run those manufacturer diagnostics and use alternative
cabling to obtain useful facts. Currently provided is only
enough information to speculate or to define necessary future
tests.

For example, problem can be created if a long ethernet cable
is not assembled using the correct matching pair of wires.
And a master reset could clear that 'miswired cable' created
lockout. Only one of many possibilities since we still don't
have accurate facts such as results of diagnostic tests.

In the meantime, does a typical plug-in UPS clean power into
a router? No. Despite the many myths to the contrary, the
UPS connects router directly to AC mains when not in battery
backup mode AND may expose router to the dirtiest of
electricity when in battery backup mode. Plug-in UPS is not
the power condition you might wish it was.

DaveC wrote:

When powering off the router and back on is the only way to bring
the network back up again, this points to dirty power. I don't
change cables, or reboot the computer, or dust off the router to
bring up the network, I power cycle the router. It is the only
way to fix the "lockup".

The router has been replaced once, hoping that it was defective.
Symptom remained unchanged.

I'm open to other suggestions, but my diagnostics points to a
power problem.

 

[jsmith]

Possibly a ferroresonant line conditioner might help in this situation.


"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4100EF39.9546A907@hotmail.com...

You see no evidence that a cable has lockup up the router
because you have not yet run those comprehensive
diagnostics. You are not doing what your car mechanic must
do to not be sued. You are not doing what your doctor does
before perscribing medicine. You are speculating this must be
a power problem only becasue the routers master reset cleared
the problem. First thing you should have done is run those
diagnostics. Make the intermittent into a solidly repeateable
problem.

Again, do you know the cables are wired correctly
internally? Did you run comprehensive diagnostics to see the
problem, then swap out with a know good cable, run the
diagnostic again, and see no failure? From the symptoms as
described, a long list of reasons could create the problem.
One of those reasons is most likely in a low bandwidth
environment. One of many reasons for lockup would be a cable
not properly assembled. Network would work sometimes; then
eventually lock up. Lockup is then cleared by the router
master reset that only occurs with power removal. And this is
only one of many possible reasons for the failure.

With this one type of failure, you could ping all you want
and that still would not create the failure. Again, I
probably have a generation plus experience on you with this
stuff. Experience based upon design - not just simplistic
part swapping. Having been there, the quickest and most
reliable solution to this problem was provide previously -
including the loope. Having experience, the only reason a
power glitch can cause your problem is if that entire line of
routers is defective by design. Defect in all routers of that
design which means that router works in 99 locations and
becomes intermittent in one. Your symptoms are also of
problems that have nothing to do with power. If you had a
problem created by power, then the entire line of routers is
defective - and you used a better design.

You did verify power by running an extension cord between
outlets so that a meter can confirm wiring? If power was a
problem, then the meter is the first thing you used to confirm
building wiring (and no, those little cubes with three lights
would not detect the type of failure you were looking for).

Diagnostics are so simple to obtain and execute that it
takes longer to make a second trip to that office.
Diagnostics were created to solve just this type of problem.

In the meantime, what did the lights on the router for each
cable and on each NIC report both during operation and during
the outage. Once problem happens, then which computers can
ping or not ping which other computer (which is why you left a
batch file script on the desktop of each machine so that the
user can execute that test and report back).

Possible reasons for your failure: miswired cable.
Impropely connected RG-45 plug to cable. Serious safety
ground problem with the office wiring. Defective
(intermittent) NIC in any one computer.

Restarting electronics will always cure the intermittent.
Clearing failure is the job of the master reset circuit that
all computer electronics must have. A defective state machine
is always reset by the master reset; therefore the
intermittent is always cleared. That does not say anything
about power. It only says the master reset circuit works.

DaveC wrote:
Environment: small 4-person medical office. These are not huge
bandwidth-using people.

Equipment: 1 PC, 3 Macs connected via 10-baseT to Netgear RP614v2
router. Router firmware is current release.

Symptoms:
1. Every 2 weeks, or so, suddenly no one connected to the router
can access the 'net. No one was attempting to use the internet
at the time of the failure, they just found that their computer
couldn't print to the network printer. I can ping the "immediate"
router (that their computer is plugged into), but not the one
beyond (that the printer and DSL router are plugged into).

Replaced the router, as it seemed defective.

Then, on one weekend, an office worker was present when the "lights
flickered", and network symptom occurred. I started thinking about
power problems, and office workers confirmed that the lights would
flicker several times a week.

Restarting the router fixes the symptom, every time it occurs.