GNU C compiler PIC MCU's?

[NK]

Ummmm I think the topic explains my question well I was really
happy with the AVR GCC compiler but can't seem to find something for
the PIC Micro's. Any leads would be greatly appreciated

Cheers!

 

[Jeff]

On 18 Oct 2004 06:10:23 -0700, wiredmonkey@gmail.com (NK) wrote:

Ummmm I think the topic explains my question well I was really
happy with the AVR GCC compiler but can't seem to find something for
the PIC Micro's. Any leads would be greatly appreciated

Cheers!
Then stick with the AVRs! AFAIK the PIC has never been targetted by

the GNU compilers.

Regards
Jeff

 

[Dingo]

see this thread
http://dingoaus.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=genelectronics&action=displa
y&num=1092878126

AFAIK The only thing that comes close is SDCC.
Unfortunately the PIC's 35 intstructions means C is not able to be ANSI
compliant. AVRs have over a 100 instructions don't they? AVRs were built
from the ground up to be C compatible. PICs were not.

Given that PIC only has 35 instructions though, it isn't like tackling intel
assembler.

Grab a book like "Easy PIC'n" if you want to learn the PIC assembler
language from the very start

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:63f7d083.0410180510.5db7dbd9@posting.google.com...

Ummmm I think the topic explains my question well I was really
happy with the AVR GCC compiler but can't seem to find something for
the PIC Micro's. Any leads would be greatly appreciated

Cheers!

 

[Al Borowski]

Dingo wrote:

see this thread
http://dingoaus.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=genelectronics&action=displa
y&num=1092878126

AFAIK The only thing that comes close is SDCC.
Unfortunately the PIC's 35 intstructions means C is not able to be ANSI
compliant. AVRs have over a 100 instructions don't they? AVRs were built
from the ground up to be C compatible. PICs were not.

Given that PIC only has 35 instructions though, it isn't like tackling intel
assembler.

FYI, the Pic18 series were designed with C in mind. The PIC18's have ~75
instructions, a user-accessible stack, more addressing modes, no real
banking/paging problems, 3 file select registers, and lots of other stuff.

Being PICs though, C still isn't a great fit.

cheers,

Al

 

[David L. Jones]

Dingo wrote:

see this thread

http://dingoaus.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=genelectronics&action=displa
y&num=1092878126

AFAIK The only thing that comes close is SDCC.
Unfortunately the PIC's 35 intstructions means C is not able to be
ANSI
compliant. AVRs have over a 100 instructions don't they? AVRs were
built
from the ground up to be C compatible. PICs were not.

There are a few excellent ANSI C compliant compilers for all the PIC
series, as good as or better than the AVR compilers, and they have been
around for many years.
The urban myth that C or ANSI C doesn't work on PICs seems to linger on
for some idiotic reason.
Tens of thousands of developers use ANSI C on PICs from the 12 series
through to the 18 series every day.

Dave

 

[Dingo]

Yep the 12's and the 18's
BUT unfortunately the 16's (which most amteurs / hobbyists usually use - or
at least start with) certainly cannot handle ANSI C well

Couple this with the fact that the original poster was coming from GNU C
compilers for AVRs I assume he is not working for a company or that he wants
to shell out $$$ for a compiler. Means PICs (and I mean 16s) won't suit
his/her needs
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1098153615.728250.308280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Dingo wrote:
see this thread


http://dingoaus.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=genelectronics&action=displa
y&num=1092878126

AFAIK The only thing that comes close is SDCC.
Unfortunately the PIC's 35 intstructions means C is not able to be
ANSI
compliant. AVRs have over a 100 instructions don't they? AVRs were
built
from the ground up to be C compatible. PICs were not.

There are a few excellent ANSI C compliant compilers for all the PIC
series, as good as or better than the AVR compilers, and they have been
around for many years.
The urban myth that C or ANSI C doesn't work on PICs seems to linger on
for some idiotic reason.
Tens of thousands of developers use ANSI C on PICs from the 12 series
through to the 18 series every day.

Dave

 

[David L. Jones]

Dingo wrote:

Yep the 12's and the 18's
BUT unfortunately the 16's (which most amteurs / hobbyists usually
use - or
at least start with) certainly cannot handle ANSI C well

Rubbish.
The 16 series handle ANSI C just fine. HiTech make an excellent 16
series fully ANSI C PIC compiler.
Having an architecture "optimised" for C is a different matter
entirely.
But even so the HiTech PIC-C 16 series compiler does an excellent and
very efficient job on the 16 series. In some cases better and more
efficient than C compilers on other chips that are more "optimised" for
C.

Couple this with the fact that the original poster was coming from
GNU C
compilers for AVRs I assume he is not working for a company or that
he wants
to shell out $$$ for a compiler. Means PICs (and I mean 16s) won't
suit
his/her needs

The cost of development tools is not the issue. They are available.
Even so, the Hitech PIC-C compiler is available in a completely free
version that suits several common 16 series devices.

Dave

 

[Dingo]

Pity HiTech wnat big $$$ for it - the free version is crippled beyond
belief, certain specific chips not families of chips, and a limit on the
amount of memory you can store.

If you aren't prepared to shell out hundereds of dollars then there is
nothing for you if you want PIC and C.

I also read somewhere there is no way a port of gcc can be done to PIC
without re-writing the compiler completely.

As for your statement "The cost of development tools is not the issue" then
why do you think the author of this thread titled it "GNU C Compiler PIC
MCU's?" and the first post starts "Ummmm I think the topic explains my
question well ". I don't think one has to have ESP to work out the author
is looking for a free compiler because cost is an issue!

If you want to start a separate topic called "PIC can do C too - just get
your wallets ready" then be my guest!

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1098164258.648243.139290@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Dingo wrote:
Yep the 12's and the 18's
BUT unfortunately the 16's (which most amteurs / hobbyists usually
use - or
at least start with) certainly cannot handle ANSI C well

Rubbish.
The 16 series handle ANSI C just fine. HiTech make an excellent 16
series fully ANSI C PIC compiler.
Having an architecture "optimised" for C is a different matter
entirely.
But even so the HiTech PIC-C 16 series compiler does an excellent and
very efficient job on the 16 series. In some cases better and more
efficient than C compilers on other chips that are more "optimised" for
C.

Couple this with the fact that the original poster was coming from
GNU C
compilers for AVRs I assume he is not working for a company or that
he wants
to shell out $$$ for a compiler. Means PICs (and I mean 16s) won't
suit
his/her needs

The cost of development tools is not the issue. They are available.
Even so, the Hitech PIC-C compiler is available in a completely free
version that suits several common 16 series devices.

Dave

 

[NK]

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1098164258.648243.139290@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...

Dingo wrote:
Yep the 12's and the 18's
BUT unfortunately the 16's (which most amteurs / hobbyists usually
use - or
at least start with) certainly cannot handle ANSI C well

Rubbish.
The 16 series handle ANSI C just fine. HiTech make an excellent 16
series fully ANSI C PIC compiler.
Having an architecture "optimised" for C is a different matter
entirely.
But even so the HiTech PIC-C 16 series compiler does an excellent and
very efficient job on the 16 series. In some cases better and more
efficient than C compilers on other chips that are more "optimised" for
C.

Couple this with the fact that the original poster was coming from
GNU C
compilers for AVRs I assume he is not working for a company or that
he wants
to shell out $$$ for a compiler. Means PICs (and I mean 16s) won't
suit
his/her needs

The cost of development tools is not the issue. They are available.
Even so, the Hitech PIC-C compiler is available in a completely free
version that suits several common 16 series devices.

Dave

Thanks for the responses all I've actually picked up a copy of easy
pic'n and thoroughly enjoy assembly. The thing is, C is a lot quicker
and sometimes I just need to quickly get something up and running
without potential optimisation of assembly.

Just wondering what those 16 series GNU C compilers that people said
existed were?

Cheers

 

[David L. Jones]

Dingo wrote:

Pity HiTech wnat big $$$ for it - the free version is crippled beyond
belief, certain specific chips not families of chips, and a limit on
the
amount of memory you can store.

Yes, but it is free, and if the chip you want to use is supported and
the memory requirement is enough then it will work just fine and dandy.

If you aren't prepared to shell out hundereds of dollars then there
is
nothing for you if you want PIC and C.

True. There is no GNU C compiler for the PIC, and the good ones are
quite expensive. I never said they were cheap.

I also read somewhere there is no way a port of gcc can be done to
PIC
without re-writing the compiler completely.

As for your statement "The cost of development tools is not the
issue" then
why do you think the author of this thread titled it "GNU C Compiler
PIC
MCU's?" and the first post starts "Ummmm I think the topic explains
my
question well ". I don't think one has to have ESP to work out the
author
is looking for a free compiler because cost is an issue!

I was only refering to your comment that the PIC 16 series can't handle
ANSI C well. That is simply wrong. The 16 series can and do have
excellent ANSI C compilers.

If you want to start a separate topic called "PIC can do C too - just
get
your wallets ready" then be my guest!

There is no argument there, that's stating the obvious.

Regards
Dave

 

[David L. Jones]

wiredmonkey@gmail.com (NK) wrote in message news:<63f7d083.0410190635.8eac653@posting.google.com>...

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1098164258.648243.139290@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
Dingo wrote:
Yep the 12's and the 18's
BUT unfortunately the 16's (which most amteurs / hobbyists usually
use - or
at least start with) certainly cannot handle ANSI C well

Rubbish.
The 16 series handle ANSI C just fine. HiTech make an excellent 16
series fully ANSI C PIC compiler.
Having an architecture "optimised" for C is a different matter
entirely.
But even so the HiTech PIC-C 16 series compiler does an excellent and
very efficient job on the 16 series. In some cases better and more
efficient than C compilers on other chips that are more "optimised" for
C.

Couple this with the fact that the original poster was coming from
GNU C
compilers for AVRs I assume he is not working for a company or that
he wants
to shell out $$$ for a compiler. Means PICs (and I mean 16s) won't
suit
his/her needs

The cost of development tools is not the issue. They are available.
Even so, the Hitech PIC-C compiler is available in a completely free
version that suits several common 16 series devices.

Dave

Thanks for the responses all I've actually picked up a copy of easy
pic'n and thoroughly enjoy assembly. The thing is, C is a lot quicker
and sometimes I just need to quickly get something up and running
without potential optimisation of assembly.

Just wondering what those 16 series GNU C compilers that people said
existed were?

Cheers

There are no GNU C compilers for the 16 series PICs (or any other
series PIC).
There are however many commercial PIC C compilers. HiTech, Microchip,
and IAR are your expensive high end professional compiler, and ones
from CCS and FED cater for the lower priced market.
There is one called C2C that used to be free, don't know what state
it's in now though.

Regards
Dave

 

[Alex Gibson]

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:63f7d083.0410190635.8eac653@posting.google.com...

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1098164258.648243.139290@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...

Just wondering what those 16 series GNU C compilers that people said
existed were?

Cheers

There is an open source compiler but not a gnu one
sdcc http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/
pic is beta support at best

Alex

 

[Alex Gibson]

"Dingo" <nsjunkstuff@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4174fb98@duster.adelaide.on.net...

Pity HiTech wnat big $$$ for it - the free version is crippled beyond
belief, certain specific chips not families of chips, and a limit on the
amount of memory you can store.

If you aren't prepared to shell out hundereds of dollars then there is
nothing for you if you want PIC and C.

wrong. see below

I also read somewhere there is no way a port of gcc can be done to PIC
without re-writing the compiler completely.

As for your statement "The cost of development tools is not the issue"
then
why do you think the author of this thread titled it "GNU C Compiler PIC
MCU's?" and the first post starts "Ummmm I think the topic explains my
question well ". I don't think one has to have ESP to work out the
author
is looking for a free compiler because cost is an issue!

If you want to start a separate topic called "PIC can do C too - just get
your wallets ready" then be my guest!

picant / c2c /sourceboost(name changes over last few years)
is fairly cheap compared to other pic c compilers US$69
+ other $20 for the simulator/ide addins(well worth it)
http://www.picant.com/c2c/c.html
Note it doesn't claim to be ansi compliant!

There are ways to get a free legal license.
Its simulator is better than mplab or other pic c compilers.


The best free compiler for pics I've come across and used
is jal which has a syntax a bit like pascal or ada.
Easy to learn. http://sourceforge.net/projects/jal/
Good and active user group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jallist/


If anyone is looking for micros with gnu support
then

8 bit - avr , 16 bit - msp430 and 32 bit - arm7 chips are among the
options.

arm7
Philips lpc2100 series
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/catalog/219/282/45988/45993/index.html#45993
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000

Can purchase small quantities from www.adalam.com in Sydney and Melbourne
around $15 each for small quantities.


lpc2104 128 KB Flash, 16 KB RAM, 48 pins
lpc2106 128 KB Flash, 32 KB RAM, 48 pins
lpc2106 128 KB Flash, 64 KB RAM, 48 pins
lpc2114 128 KB Flash, 16 KB RAM, 10-bit ADC, 64 pins
lpc2119 128 KB Flash, 16 KB RAM, 10-bit ADC, 2x CAN, 64 pins
lpc2124 256 KB Flash, 16 KB RAM, 10-bit ADC, 2x CAN, 64 pins
lpc2129 256 KB Flash, 16 KB RAM, 10-bit ADC, 4x CAN and -40 to +105C, 64
pins

The lpc22xx series have external bus connections for external memory , etc

Surface mount only unless you buy modules like
http://www.dontronics.com/pasat.html which aren't cheap.

Cheap dev boards
http://www.olimex.com/dev/
http://www.olimex.com/dev/arm_left.htm
http://www.olimex.com/dev/pricelist.html

tools
http://www.gnuarm.org/

Other arm7 chips
atmel www.atmel.com/products/at91 look for sam7 devices

analog devices
http://www.analog.com/IST/SelectionTable/?selection_table_id=212

st http://www.st.com/stonline/products/support/micro/arm/str7.htm

sharp http://www.sharpsma.com/sma/products/MCUSoC.htm

oki http://www2.okisemi.com/us/docs/MCUTables-9.html

and lots of others


Alex

 

[NK]

Alex Gibson wrote:

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:63f7d083.0410190635.8eac653@posting.google.com...

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1098164258.648243.139290@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...


Just wondering what those 16 series GNU C compilers that people said
existed were?

Cheers


There is an open source compiler but not a gnu one
sdcc http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/
pic is beta support at best

Alex


Thanks all... Well after all the responses I think I'll use the basic

compiler that came with the oshonsoft simulator. I've been playing it so
far and it works great. For C, sounds like AVR is the way to go

Thanks Again,
NK

 

[Alex Gibson]

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4179c49a$0$11774>>

Thanks all... Well after all the responses I think I'll use the basic
compiler that came with the oshonsoft simulator. I've been playing it so
far and it works great. For C, sounds like AVR is the way to go

If you don't want to have to spend dollars on compilers.

For pic there is the picclite compiler from
http://www.htsoft.com/products/PICClite.php
http://www.htsoft.com/downloads/demos.php
16F877, 16F877A, 12F675, 12F629, 16F627, 16F627A, 16F684, 16C84, 16F84 and
16F84A devices. Limits the memory you can use but
for a lot of uses(most) it won't affect you.
I've only once run up against the limit.

Plugs into mplab and uses mplab as the ide.

The Mike Predko book
Programming Robot Controllers
comes with an older version of picclite.

Have a look at the picaxe for basic for the pic
http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/

Alex

 

[NK]

Cheers Alex, I'm aware of the PICClite compiler but I have a big bunch
of 16f628A's lying around which i dont want to waste As for picaxe,
that's what actually got me started on all of this. Great stuff but it's
cheaper for me to continue using the basic compiler I already have and
therefore use my existing 16f628a's

On another note, which I should probably start a new topic for but my
mouse hand is being lazy, does anyone know of how I can get a psi
(0-30psi)reading converted to a voltage reading which I can then use in
the AD inputs of an MCU?

Thanks
NK


Alex Gibson wrote:

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4179c49a$0$11774

Thanks all... Well after all the responses I think I'll use the basic
compiler that came with the oshonsoft simulator. I've been playing it so
far and it works great. For C, sounds like AVR is the way to go


If you don't want to have to spend dollars on compilers.

For pic there is the picclite compiler from
http://www.htsoft.com/products/PICClite.php
http://www.htsoft.com/downloads/demos.php
16F877, 16F877A, 12F675, 12F629, 16F627, 16F627A, 16F684, 16C84, 16F84 and
16F84A devices. Limits the memory you can use but
for a lot of uses(most) it won't affect you.
I've only once run up against the limit.

Plugs into mplab and uses mplab as the ide.

The Mike Predko book
Programming Robot Controllers
comes with an older version of picclite.

Have a look at the picaxe for basic for the pic
http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/

Alex

 

[NK]

NK wrote:

Cheers Alex, I'm aware of the PICClite compiler but I have a big bunch
of 16f628A's lying around which i dont want to waste As for picaxe,
that's what actually got me started on all of this. Great stuff but it's
cheaper for me to continue using the basic compiler I already have and
therefore use my existing 16f628a's

On another note, which I should probably start a new topic for but my
mouse hand is being lazy, does anyone know of how I can get a psi
(0-30psi)reading converted to a voltage reading which I can then use in
the AD inputs of an MCU?

Thanks
NK


Alex Gibson wrote:

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4179c49a$0$11774

Thanks all... Well after all the responses I think I'll use the basic
compiler that came with the oshonsoft simulator. I've been playing it
so far and it works great. For C, sounds like AVR is the way to go



If you don't want to have to spend dollars on compilers.

For pic there is the picclite compiler from
http://www.htsoft.com/products/PICClite.php
http://www.htsoft.com/downloads/demos.php
16F877, 16F877A, 12F675, 12F629, 16F627, 16F627A, 16F684, 16C84,
16F84 and 16F84A devices. Limits the memory you can use but
for a lot of uses(most) it won't affect you.
I've only once run up against the limit.

Plugs into mplab and uses mplab as the ide.

The Mike Predko book
Programming Robot Controllers
comes with an older version of picclite.

Have a look at the picaxe for basic for the pic
http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/

Alex

ermm okay just worked out it was a pressure transducer I need Anyone

know where I can get one of these or sell these for air 0-30psi with a
0-5v output?

 

[NK]

Alex Gibson wrote:

"NK" <wiredmonkey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:417b17a5$0$10349$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

Cheers Alex, I'm aware of the PICClite compiler but I have a big bunch of
16f628A's lying around which i dont want to waste As for picaxe, that's
what actually got me started on all of this. Great stuff but it's cheaper
for me to continue using the basic compiler I already have and therefore
use my existing 16f628a's

On another note, which I should probably start a new topic for but my
mouse hand is being lazy, does anyone know of how I can get a psi
(0-30psi)reading converted to a voltage reading which I can then use in
the AD inputs of an MCU?

Thanks
NK


Picclite works for 16f627 and 16f627a.

I've used it for 16f628, just limited to 1K.
so you may be able to use it for 16f628A.
I don't hand any to test with.

If your going to use pics a lot may be worth learning assembly.
It is not that hard. Jal is also easy to learn.

Sorry don't know of any cheap pressure transducers.


Alex


Actually I have a fairly decent grasp on assembly but sometimes I just

want to get something done ultra quick - that's when I find a BASIC or C
compiler rocks

Thanks