Freaky Amazing DMM?!

krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...
If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.
 
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:06:31 -0600, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

Apples and oranges.

"A craftsman" works the medium he ends up selling directly and
irrecoverably with the tool or tools involved so his 'toolwork' is his
work product, and one can never blame the tool for the finished product,
only the tool pusher.

"A hacker" doesn't use a 'tool', they hack. When they fail, it is
because they didn't hack long enough or correctly enough. They *ARE* the
tool that failed, and ALL failures are their fault.
 
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90583@gmail.com>,
bare.arsed@gmail.com says...>
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.
That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.
 
krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90583@gmail.com>,
bare.arsed@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.
Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.
 
In article <mn.a9567d91227376d5.90583@gmail.com>,
bare.arsed@gmail.com says...>
krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90583@gmail.com>,
bare.arsed@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
No, your incompetence didn't pass by anyone.

I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
It is not a limitation of the tool, only the user. Lower the
impedance if it's too high.

BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
I'll take your word that you don't do "craftsman like" work. You
clearly don't know how.

You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.
*I* know what I'm doing. You've clearly demonstrated that you
don't.
 
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe wrote:
The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will read
induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't. It makes a voltmeter useless
for checking for live circuits in a crowded panel.
Then pick the right voltmeter for the job, duh.

Hope This Helps!
Rich
 
Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:

krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90583@gmail.com>,
bare.arsed@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.
What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel? I do it more
often than I really care for, and never have a problem.

- YD.

--
File corruption detected. Select option:
1 - Call the cops
2 - Call the press
3 - Bribe it

Remove HAT if replying by mail.
 
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:27 -0300, YD <ydtechHAT@techie.com> wrote:

Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:

krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90583@gmail.com>,
bare.arsed@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.arsed@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.


I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.


What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel? I do it more
often than I really care for, and never have a problem.
There isn't anything wrong with it. Analog meters are dead. High
impedance digital meters are only a problem if there is a loose nut
inside the panel, holding the leads.
 
On Jan 21, 11:05 am, YD <ydtech...@techie.com> wrote:
Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:



krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90...@gmail.com>,
bare.ar...@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.

I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.

What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel?
It's not the right tool for the job.
A meter which gives you a false reading with bad (or no) contact is a
BAD idea in dangerous high voltage/high energy circuits.
That is why proper meters with low impedance (Kohms) modes exist for
the job, e.g. Fluke 113, 110 series, 289 etc.

I do it more often than I really care for, and never have a problem.
Oh dear...

Dave.
 
On Jan 21, 12:22 pm, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:27 -0300, YD <ydtech...@techie.com> wrote:
Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:

krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90...@gmail.com>,
bare.ar...@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.

I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.

What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel? I do it more
often than I really care for, and never have a problem.

There isn't anything wrong with it. Analog meters are dead. High
impedance digital meters are only a problem if there is a loose nut
inside the panel, holding the leads.
Then I suppose Fluke and others make all those purpose designed Low-Z
electrical meters for loose nuts then?

Dave.
 
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:06:15 -0800 (PST), "David L. Jones"
<altzone@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 21, 12:22 pm, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:27 -0300, YD <ydtech...@techie.com> wrote:
Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:

krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90...@gmail.com>,
bare.ar...@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.

I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.

What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel? I do it more
often than I really care for, and never have a problem.

There isn't anything wrong with it. Analog meters are dead. High
impedance digital meters are only a problem if there is a loose nut
inside the panel, holding the leads.

Then I suppose Fluke and others make all those purpose designed Low-Z
electrical meters for loose nuts then?
....and electricians who know nothing about electricity, perhaps.
 
On Jan 21, 2:09 pm, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:06:15 -0800 (PST), "David L. Jones"



altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 21, 12:22 pm, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:27 -0300, YD <ydtech...@techie.com> wrote:
Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:

krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90...@gmail.com>,
bare.ar...@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.

I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.

What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel? I do it more
often than I really care for, and never have a problem.

There isn't anything wrong with it. Analog meters are dead. High
impedance digital meters are only a problem if there is a loose nut
inside the panel, holding the leads.

Then I suppose Fluke and others make all those purpose designed Low-Z
electrical meters for loose nuts then?

...and electricians who know nothing about electricity, perhaps.
But at least smart enough to chose the right tool for the job.

Dave.
 
In article <9caaa5aa-54e2-4f21-a324-1f2ca8bdd389
@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, altzone@gmail.com says...>
On Jan 21, 2:09 pm, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:06:15 -0800 (PST), "David L. Jones"



altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 21, 12:22 pm, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:05:27 -0300, YD <ydtech...@techie.com> wrote:
Late at night, by candle light, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com> penned
this immortal opus:

krw used his keyboard to write :
In article <mn.a5307d9188b78d0d.90...@gmail.com>,
bare.ar...@gmail.com says...
krw explained on 19/01/2009 :
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:35:00 +1100, Arlowe <bare.ar...@gmail.com
wrote:

on 16/01/2009, Paul supposed :
On Jan 15, 2:19 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:54c2d7cf-c506-4647-b272-17d608c8854a@x8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

I'm testing a new DMM I purchased, AM-240 by Amprobe. It claims *over*
100Mohm impedance in 400.0mV mode.

Nothing new there, many DMM's have selectable "high impedance" or "HI-Z"
modes on the mV range. e.g. the Fluke 87.

I've looked at the specs of ~ 30 DMM's today, include a lot of
fluke's, and never seen anything near 14Gohms impedance. Keithley has
an electrometer that's probably higher. Most DMM's are around 10Mohms
(not gigaohms) input impedance. Don't you think 14 gigaohms is a bit
high?

PL

The evil thing about Voltmeters with very high impedance is they will
read induced voltages that analog meters wouldn't.
It makes a voltmeter useless for checking for live circuits in a
crowded panel.

A craftsman never blames tools for his failures. Hackers, on the
other hand...

If you work with electricity you had better know the limitations of
your tools or you will find them...the hard way.

That is certainly true (though perhaps your heirs are the ones who
will find you), but doesn't modify my statement. In this case, the
tool *can* be used as long as the one using it knows what he's
doing.

Ok....everything seems to pass right over your head....
I pointed out a limitation of a DMM and you seem to be inferring that I
am somehow a hack who blames his tools...
BTW> I am not a "craftsman" I am an electrcian..
You don't do what I do for as many years as I have without knowing what
the fuck you are doing.

What's wrong with using a hi Z voltmeter in a live panel? I do it more
often than I really care for, and never have a problem.

There isn't anything wrong with it. Analog meters are dead. High
impedance digital meters are only a problem if there is a loose nut
inside the panel, holding the leads.

Then I suppose Fluke and others make all those purpose designed Low-Z
electrical meters for loose nuts then?

...and electricians who know nothing about electricity, perhaps.

But at least smart enough to chose the right tool for the job.
For an electrician who know nothing about electricity (99.44% of
them, apparently), or if that's all one is ever going to do with
the meter, perhaps. For anyone who knows anything about
electricity or wants a tool that has more than one use, the high
impedance meter is a better choice.
 
In article <MPG.23e0d3903d9b0915989864@news.individual.net>,
krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
For anyone who knows anything about electricity or wants a tool that
has more than one use, the high impedance meter is a better choice.
Totally useless in areas of high RF.

As the man says, the proper tool for the job
 
In article <50212451b8Spambin@argonet.co.uk>, Spambin@argonet.co.uk
says...>
In article <MPG.23e0d3903d9b0915989864@news.individual.net>,
krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
For anyone who knows anything about electricity or wants a tool that
has more than one use, the high impedance meter is a better choice.

Totally useless in areas of high RF.
Wrong.

As the man says, the proper tool for the job
Know what you're doing is a better solution. Loose nuts are
dangerous.
 
In article <MPG.23e0f291d9e4acfc989869@news.individual.net>,
krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
Totally useless in areas of high RF.

Wrong.
That statement simply exposes another large hole in your knowledge and
experience.

I spent 20 years on a high power HF transmitting station - believe me - I
*know*

> > As the man says, the proper tool for the job
 
In article <50212ea694Spambin@argonet.co.uk>, Spambin@argonet.co.uk
says...>
In article <MPG.23e0f291d9e4acfc989869@news.individual.net>,
krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:
Totally useless in areas of high RF.

Wrong.

That statement simply exposes another large hole in your knowledge and
experience.
Wrong again, in so many ways, but you're good at that. If your
field strength is enough to saturate the innards there isn't much
that can be done. A low impedance meter isn't going to help. OTOH,
we weren't talking about probing inside a microwave oven in
operation, rather power distribution panel.

I spent 20 years on a high power HF transmitting station - believe me - I
*know*
Evidently you don't know much.

As the man says, the proper tool for the job
Or make the one you have work. It does take some knowledge of
basic electricity, but evidently that lets a lot out here.
 
In article <31f7ee1b-796f-4a26-a7e4-7755648e2ad2@
35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>, energymover@gmail.com says...>
On Jan 21, 8:17 am, Paul <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 21, 7:34 am, Stuart <Spam...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

In article <MPG.23e0f291d9e4acfc989...@news.individual.net>,
   krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Totally useless in areas of high RF.
Wrong.

That statement simply exposes another large hole in your knowledge and
experience.

I spent 20 years on a high power HF transmitting station - believe me - I
*know*

As the man says, the proper tool for the job

I would agree. Take two meters. One is 1Kohms. The other is 1Gohms. If
the load is low impedance, say 100 ohms, then there's an appreciable
error with the low impedance meter-- simple ohms law. While the error
associate with the high impedance meter is unmeasurable.

People are probably confusing the fact that a high impedance meter
while unconnected to anything will pick up signals, for obvious
reasons.

Paul


Sorry, I didn't pay much attention who I was replying to. I'm not
taking sides, but I am saying that high impedance meters are better.
Right. It's easy to lower the effective impedance of a high
impedance meter. Going the other way is a lot harder.
 
On Jan 21, 7:34 am, Stuart <Spam...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
In article <MPG.23e0f291d9e4acfc989...@news.individual.net>,
   krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Totally useless in areas of high RF.
Wrong.

That statement simply exposes another large hole in your knowledge and
experience.

I spent 20 years on a high power HF transmitting station - believe me - I
*know*

As the man says, the proper tool for the job

I would agree. Take two meters. One is 1Kohms. The other is 1Gohms. If
the load is low impedance, say 100 ohms, then there's an appreciable
error with the low impedance meter-- simple ohms law. While the error
associate with the high impedance meter is unmeasurable.

People are probably confusing the fact that a high impedance meter
while unconnected to anything will pick up signals, for obvious
reasons.

Paul
 
On Jan 21, 8:17 am, Paul <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 21, 7:34 am, Stuart <Spam...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

In article <MPG.23e0f291d9e4acfc989...@news.individual.net>,
   krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Totally useless in areas of high RF.
Wrong.

That statement simply exposes another large hole in your knowledge and
experience.

I spent 20 years on a high power HF transmitting station - believe me - I
*know*

As the man says, the proper tool for the job

I would agree. Take two meters. One is 1Kohms. The other is 1Gohms. If
the load is low impedance, say 100 ohms, then there's an appreciable
error with the low impedance meter-- simple ohms law. While the error
associate with the high impedance meter is unmeasurable.

People are probably confusing the fact that a high impedance meter
while unconnected to anything will pick up signals, for obvious
reasons.

Paul

Sorry, I didn't pay much attention who I was replying to. I'm not
taking sides, but I am saying that high impedance meters are better.

Paul
 

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