For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

[Winfield Hill]

Free registration is required, but this article is worth reading.**
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20794-2004Oct9.html

A few selected quotes:

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like,
'Oh, it's getting better and better,' " said Lance Cpl. Jonathan
Snyder, 22, of Gettysburg, Pa. "But when you're here, you know
it's worse every day."

Pfc. Kyle Maio, 19, of Bucks County, Pa., said he thought government
officials were reticent to speak candidly because of the upcoming
U.S. elections. "Stuff's going on here but they won't flat-out say
it," he said. "They can't get into it."

"The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the
world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman," said Lance Cpl. Devin
Kelly, 20, of Fairbanks, Alaska.

Lance Cpl. Alexander Jones, 20, of Ball Ground, Ga., agreed:
"We're basically proving out that the government is wrong," he
said. "We're catching them in a lie."

Lance Cpl. Jeremy Kyrk, 21, of Chicago, said the insurgents took
advantage of the limitations imposed on U.S. troops. "They don't
give us any leeway, they don't give us any quarter," he said.
"They catch people and cut their heads off. They know our limits,
but they have no limits. We can't compete with that."

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for
speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are
they going to do, send us to Iraq?" [Cpl. Brandon Autin, 21,
of New Iberia, La.]

---

** A few here say the Washington Post is nothing but liberal
reporting, but that's hogwash. When all hell broke loose last
summer in Falluja, the only direct on-site information came from
a BBC phone interview of a Washington Post reporter. His story
was different from what we heard elsewhere here in the US, but
about a week later the other news sources confirmed and changed
their reporting to match what I had heard in the BBC interview,
and it's still true. So I tend to trust Steve Fainaru's report.


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)

 

[Winfield Hill]

John Larkin wrote...

Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?

This article woke me up amid my lazy Sunday-morning browsing.
Like I said, it's worth reading. No preaching about it.

Then an hour later reading Fred's Wall Street Journal Reporter
email, sheesh, things look way worse than we're led to believe.

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)

 

[John Larkin]

On 10 Oct 2004 11:42:32 -0700, Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?

This article woke me up amid my lazy Sunday-morning browsing.
Like I said, it's worth reading. No preaching about it.

Then an hour later reading Fred's Wall Street Journal Reporter
email, sheesh, things look way worse than we're led to believe.

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."

Sure, just hand the keys (and the women) to the Taliban on our way
out.

John

 

[Leon Heller]

"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:ckbvqo02bn5@drn.newsguy.com...

John Larkin wrote...

Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?

This article woke me up amid my lazy Sunday-morning browsing.
Like I said, it's worth reading. No preaching about it.

Then an hour later reading Fred's Wall Street Journal Reporter
email, sheesh, things look way worse than we're led to believe.

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."

I don't think they can get out, even if they wanted to, as they are legally
responsible for clearing up the mess they created.

Leon

 

[Fred Bloggs]

John Larkin wrote:

On 10 Oct 2004 05:01:41 -0700, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:


Free registration is required, but this article is worth reading.**
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20794-2004Oct9.html

A few selected quotes:

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like,
'Oh, it's getting better and better,' " said Lance Cpl. Jonathan
Snyder, 22, of Gettysburg, Pa. "But when you're here, you know
it's worse every day."

Pfc. Kyle Maio, 19, of Bucks County, Pa., said he thought government
officials were reticent to speak candidly because of the upcoming
U.S. elections. "Stuff's going on here but they won't flat-out say
it," he said. "They can't get into it."

"The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the
world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman," said Lance Cpl. Devin
Kelly, 20, of Fairbanks, Alaska.

Lance Cpl. Alexander Jones, 20, of Ball Ground, Ga., agreed:
"We're basically proving out that the government is wrong," he
said. "We're catching them in a lie."

Lance Cpl. Jeremy Kyrk, 21, of Chicago, said the insurgents took
advantage of the limitations imposed on U.S. troops. "They don't
give us any leeway, they don't give us any quarter," he said.
"They catch people and cut their heads off. They know our limits,
but they have no limits. We can't compete with that."

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for
speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are
they going to do, send us to Iraq?" [Cpl. Brandon Autin, 21,
of New Iberia, La.]

---

** A few here say the Washington Post is nothing but liberal
reporting, but that's hogwash. When all hell broke loose last
summer in Falluja, the only direct on-site information came from
a BBC phone interview of a Washington Post reporter. His story
was different from what we heard elsewhere here in the US, but
about a week later the other news sources confirmed and changed
their reporting to match what I had heard in the BBC interview,
and it's still true. So I tend to trust Steve Fainaru's report.



Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?

John

I think I've had just about all I'm going to take from your mouth.
You've been nothing but a smart-ass, loud mouth know-it-all, and
agitating punk-ass queen ever since usenet had the misfortune of your
presence.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:41:18 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

I think I've had just about all I'm going to take from your mouth.
You've been nothing but a smart-ass, loud mouth know-it-all, and
agitating punk-ass queen ever since usenet had the misfortune of your
presence.

Usenet is a sport; learn how to play.

John

 

[Winfield Hill]

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote...

The old 'fighting with one hand tied behind our backs...'.
Where have I heard that before?

Indeed, reading the article forces up some bad memories.

And consider, if Kerry buys into Bush's war and if he wins the
election, he'll be re-enacting Nixon taking over Johnson's war.
We all remember how that came out. Sheesh, he'd better lose!

September in Iraq saw 2380 attacks by insurgents.

Ouch. Has anybody posted a monthly plot of this stuff?


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)

 

[Chris Carlen]

Winfield Hill wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?


This article woke me up amid my lazy Sunday-morning browsing.
Like I said, it's worth reading. No preaching about it.

Then an hour later reading Fred's Wall Street Journal Reporter
email, sheesh, things look way worse than we're led to believe.

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."

There are some indications we will be out in 2005:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north307.html


--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@earthlink.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote...

The old 'fighting with one hand tied behind our backs...'.
Where have I heard that before?


Indeed, reading the article forces up some bad memories.

And consider, if Kerry buys into Bush's war and if he wins the
election, he'll be re-enacting Nixon taking over Johnson's war.
We all remember how that came out. Sheesh, he'd better lose!


September in Iraq saw 2380 attacks by insurgents.


Ouch. Has anybody posted a monthly plot of this stuff?

I don't know of any, but this site usually has something of interest
http://www.strategypage.com/

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Product developer wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<41699E6D.4090903@nospam.com>...

John Larkin wrote:

On 10 Oct 2004 05:01:41 -0700, Winfield Hill
Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:



Free registration is required, but this article is worth reading.**
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20794-2004Oct9.html

A few selected quotes:

"Every day you read the articles in the States where it's like,
'Oh, it's getting better and better,' " said Lance Cpl. Jonathan
Snyder, 22, of Gettysburg, Pa. "But when you're here, you know
it's worse every day."

Pfc. Kyle Maio, 19, of Bucks County, Pa., said he thought government
officials were reticent to speak candidly because of the upcoming
U.S. elections. "Stuff's going on here but they won't flat-out say
it," he said. "They can't get into it."

"The reality right now is that the most dangerous opinion in the
world is the opinion of a U.S. serviceman," said Lance Cpl. Devin
Kelly, 20, of Fairbanks, Alaska.

Lance Cpl. Alexander Jones, 20, of Ball Ground, Ga., agreed:
"We're basically proving out that the government is wrong," he
said. "We're catching them in a lie."

Lance Cpl. Jeremy Kyrk, 21, of Chicago, said the insurgents took
advantage of the limitations imposed on U.S. troops. "They don't
give us any leeway, they don't give us any quarter," he said.
"They catch people and cut their heads off. They know our limits,
but they have no limits. We can't compete with that."

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for
speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are
they going to do, send us to Iraq?" [Cpl. Brandon Autin, 21,
of New Iberia, La.]

---

** A few here say the Washington Post is nothing but liberal
reporting, but that's hogwash. When all hell broke loose last
summer in Falluja, the only direct on-site information came from
a BBC phone interview of a Washington Post reporter. His story
was different from what we heard elsewhere here in the US, but
about a week later the other news sources confirmed and changed
their reporting to match what I had heard in the BBC interview,
and it's still true. So I tend to trust Steve Fainaru's report.



Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?

John


I think I've had just about all I'm going to take from your mouth.
You've been nothing but a smart-ass, loud mouth know-it-all, and
agitating punk-ass queen ever since usenet had the misfortune of your
presence.


Tough words from the king of virtual scissors and glue. Someone struck a nerve.

He's another specious p.o.s. like yourself, trashbag. And speaking of
cut-and-paste, that is a good characterization of your parroting of Bush
campaign slogans. You have been shot down and cut to pieces by many
people on this NG- it's really tough for the barindead hacks like
yourself when people question your logic and facts- none there.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Chris Carlen wrote...

Winfield Hill wrote:

This article woke me up amid my lazy Sunday-morning browsing.
Like I said, it's worth reading. No preaching about it.

Then an hour later reading Fred's Wall Street Journal Reporter
email, sheesh, things look way worse than we're led to believe.

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."

There are some indications we will be out in 2005:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north307.html

Makes sense, except for the details. ...


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Ouch. Has anybody posted a monthly plot of this stuff?

Not incredibly, the WORTHLESS LOUDMOUTHED RIGHT WING SCUM remain silent
on FACTS and verifiable information. Global Security has all the
CENTCOM data plus more links for a COMPLETE study of all aspects of "the
situation" on their Iraq Occupation and Reconstruction page:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_reconstruction.htm
For a *daily* plot of the insurgent attacks see the Significant
Activities (SIGACTS) link near top to the right of the page.
I just love it when you have these newsgroup morons and their "strong"
beliefs which manifest themselves largely in hallucinatory generalized
musings on pseudo philosophical bullshit- and then you have the reality
that most of these people are clueless scum who are blown away by the
slightest research challenge. USENET is a f--king sewer populated by
garbage- no doubt about that!

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Winfield Hill wrote:

Indeed, reading the article forces up some bad memories.

And consider, if Kerry buys into Bush's war and if he wins the
election, he'll be re-enacting Nixon taking over Johnson's war. We
all remember how that came out. Sheesh, he'd better lose!

Nah- that's bs. If you ever took the time to read anything Nixon himself
wrote, you would find that Nixon's challenge was withdrawal in such a
way as to preserve the confidence other US allies had placed in us. It
was a totally different situation, a global cold war and firm belief in
the domino theory. The Vietnam situation was almost a hypothetical
compared to the much more real and immediate dangers posed by the Iraq
situation. It /is/ possible to turn the situation around but /not/ by
waging war, this will happen by doing exactly as Kerry plans: devise a
viable *political* plan first and foremost, and only then commit
resources and military to make it work. The military component of the
action then becomes police action and this is a BIG change from a brute
force conventional offensive designed to hunt down and kill as many
people as possible- which we are doing now.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:06:36 +0100, "Leon Heller"
<leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:ckbvqo02bn5@drn.newsguy.com...
John Larkin wrote...

Geez, Win, you too? Did Fred teach you cut-and-paste preaching?

This article woke me up amid my lazy Sunday-morning browsing.
Like I said, it's worth reading. No preaching about it.

Then an hour later reading Fred's Wall Street Journal Reporter
email, sheesh, things look way worse than we're led to believe.

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."

I don't think they can get out, even if they wanted to, as they are legally
responsible for clearing up the mess they created.

Leon

Legally responsible? How?

John

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:19:09 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

Legally responsible? How?

As the "Occupying Power" - I can't recall which set of international
obligations it comes under, but I'm pretty sure we're all signed up to
'em.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On 10 Oct 2004 11:42:32 -0700, Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Then at lunch my wife tells me about a recent Oprah show, says,
"Why don't we just get out of there, they don't even want us."

Oh, but a great many of them *do* hence the impassioned plea of one
Iraqi woman who had the chance to address the Labour Party conference
last month. If we just pull out and leave the place to civil war,
it'll be the second time they'll have been abandoned by the west. And
severe retributions will be exacted against those who are judged to
have been "colaborators" with the allies under the occupation. :-(
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:04:15 +0100, Paul Burridge
<pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:19:09 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:

Legally responsible? How?

As the "Occupying Power" - I can't recall which set of international
obligations it comes under, but I'm pretty sure we're all signed up to
'em.

And who is going to enforce this obligation?

John

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:13:22 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

And who is going to enforce this obligation?

Gort!

Jon

 

[Winfield Hill]

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote...

I don't know of any, but this site usually has something
of interest http://www.strategypage.com/

Hmm, I notice they prominently display Farnaz Fassihi's email
(the one Fred gave us in the thread "OT: US BLEW IT IN IRAQ-
Wall Street Journal Reporter Finds," elsewhere in s.e.d.).


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)

 

[Rich Grise]

On Monday 11 October 2004 07:07 pm, Jonathan Kirwan did deign to grace us
with the following:

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:13:22 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

And who is going to enforce this obligation?

Gort!

But, she pronounced it, "Gourt!"

I was at the haberdasher's the other day, but couldn't find a
Klaatu Barada Necktie.

;-)
Rich