Flyback replacement on a historical arcade machine.

T

Top Cat

Guest
I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.. There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around 1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is this possible?

Cheers in advance.
 
On Tuesday, 22 March 2016 21:23:00 UTC, dansabr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Any numbers at all on the flyback?

yes:

TF-1
Tj' 21
TOTOKU
 
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:48:48 PM UTC-5, Top Cat wrote:
TF-1
Tj' 21 (This could be TJt 21)
TOTOKU
Click to expand...

Your best bet might be Henri at Asti Magnetics, but they have been bought out by PRB. I do not know what state they are in. (not geographically I mean condition sorta, oh wait, I also did forget what state they're in)

If they got old stock I am sure they will sell it.
 
On 22/03/2016 21:14, Top Cat wrote:
I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.. There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around 1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is this possible?

Cheers in advance.
Click to expand...

Is it purely for the raster, or LV supplies also. 1970s presumably just
the former, so half a chance of near enough any LOPT of that time would
do with a bit of jiggery-pokery.
I've never looked inside a LOPT, are they epoxy filled of that era or
still tar filled of the 60s era? Is the bakelite casing likely to
contain asbestos fibre reinforcement if you hacked in to the casing, to
check out the possibility of a rewind, at least "B&W" only voltages?
 
Top Cat <thomas.is.topcat@googlemail.com> wrote:

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine
what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is
this possible?
Click to expand...

Heh, I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "modern equivalent",
seriously, does anyone still make flybacks?

NOS maybe.

How did you determine the flyback is bad? Did it burn up, pin hole or
something?

You might have to end up doing an autopsy on it, try to figure out the pin
assignments, take a guess for the winding taps and try to physically match
to another.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR" had more to do
with security monitors of the time than the game. Those monitors were
designed and made for 24x7 operation and I think the early game makers used
them since arcade style games more or less needed to survive similar
punishment.

Is this the board?

http://notinmame.blogspot.com/2016/01/toei-gm-140tv-caplist-map.html

If it is, that does look like it's from a security monitor of the time and
you might be better off looking for scraps of those, 9 times out of 10 the
crt goes bad so the fb would still be ok.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com
 
"Top Cat" <thomas.is.topcat@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:f0c25a9c-c0db-46a1-bdd0-73ed997ad86f@googlegroups.com...
I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.
There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but
there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the
historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output
voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine
what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know
the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around
1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine
what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is
this possible?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

YOu may want the game to stay as it is, but if you just want to play the
game, you may want to look at some of the converter boards made that will
let you use a VGA type of display, either CRT or the newer LED types.
 
On 03/23/2016 7:35 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Top Cat" <thomas.is.topcat@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:f0c25a9c-c0db-46a1-bdd0-73ed997ad86f@googlegroups.com...
I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.
There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but
there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the
historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output
voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine
what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know
the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around
1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine
what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is
this possible?



YOu may want the game to stay as it is, but if you just want to play the
game, you may want to look at some of the converter boards made that will
let you use a VGA type of display, either CRT or the newer LED types.
Click to expand...

I have Taito B&W monitor schematics that I am trying to scan, they are
old blueprints and they have turned VERY blue, so my colour scanner is
having a bit of trouble.

Email me and I will send you what I have...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
 
En el artículo <nctfs6$nl7$1@dont-email.me>, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
escribió:

Is it purely for the raster, or LV supplies also. 1970s presumably just
the former
Click to expand...

I would have thought any monitor of that era would have a separate LOPT
and tripler module, so is the OP's problem the LOPT or the tripler?

OP: A few photos would help. Speaks a thousand words.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) # ik ben Brussel
(")_(")
 
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 5:06:30 AM UTC, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:48:48 PM UTC-5, Top Cat wrote:
TF-1
Tj' 21 (This could be TJt 21)
TOTOKU

Your best bet might be Henri at Asti Magnetics, but they have been bought out by PRB. I do not know what state they are in. (not geographically I mean condition sorta, oh wait, I also did forget what state they're in)

If they got old stock I am sure they will sell it.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Have have reached out to them. I'll keep you posted.
 
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 7:19:37 AM UTC, N_Cook wrote:
On 22/03/2016 21:14, Top Cat wrote:
I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.. There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around 1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is this possible?

Cheers in advance.


Is it purely for the raster, or LV supplies also. 1970s presumably just
the former, so half a chance of near enough any LOPT of that time would
do with a bit of jiggery-pokery.
I've never looked inside a LOPT, are they epoxy filled of that era or
still tar filled of the 60s era? Is the bakelite casing likely to
contain asbestos fibre reinforcement if you hacked in to the casing, to
check out the possibility of a rewind, at least "B&W" only voltages?
Click to expand...

Hi, I believe it's filled with epoxy. I'll try and post some pict in the next few hours. I initially thought about a rewind, but was put off with how accurate they had to be. And many appeared to need machines etc. Sounded beyond my capabilities, perhaps. I'm hoping I could find an alternate model that works maybe. :)
 
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 11:58:30 AM UTC, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine
what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is
this possible?

Heh, I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "modern equivalent",
seriously, does anyone still make flybacks?

NOS maybe.

How did you determine the flyback is bad? Did it burn up, pin hole or
something?

You might have to end up doing an autopsy on it, try to figure out the pin
assignments, take a guess for the winding taps and try to physically match
to another.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR" had more to do
with security monitors of the time than the game. Those monitors were
designed and made for 24x7 operation and I think the early game makers used
them since arcade style games more or less needed to survive similar
punishment.

Is this the board?

http://notinmame.blogspot.com/2016/01/toei-gm-140tv-caplist-map.html

If it is, that does look like it's from a security monitor of the time and
you might be better off looking for scraps of those, 9 times out of 10 the
crt goes bad so the fb would still be ok.

-bruce
Click to expand...

hehe, Hi Brue, you're right. when I say modern, I guess I mean newer. :) The flyback smokes when switched on. So considered dead. Yes, you're right too that the Teoi were used in security and medical applications too at the time. The image is the very same PCB and flyback. I will post as many pictures as I can later today. You're right, that maybe a working replacement may be the way forward, if I can't solve the issue. Cheers
 
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 2:30:45 PM UTC, Ralph Mowery wrote:


I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.
There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but
there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the
historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output
voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine
what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know
the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around
1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine
what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is
this possible?



YOu may want the game to stay as it is, but if you just want to play the
game, you may want to look at some of the converter boards made that will
let you use a VGA type of display, either CRT or the newer LED types.
Click to expand...

I think you've hit the nail on the head, in terms of wanting to keep it as original as possible. I realise that may not be possible eventually, but I so want to try. I have bought a converter ready, and tested it but could not for the life of me get an image to show. Maybe there are other issues too that need attention. But I'll try (against my poor judgement) to focus on one issue at a time. I am so bad at flitting between several things, it's untrue.
 
news:f0c25a9c-c0db-46a1-bdd0-73ed997ad86f@googlegroups.com...
I hope someone can help me.

I have an extremely old CRT attached to a Space Invaders B&W arcade cabinet.
There is no available schematic, that I can find. The flyback has died but
there is no modern replacement, mainly because the documentation for the
historical model is non existent. So I dont know the input or output
voltages, I have no circuit diagram, and I cannot find anything to determine
what its input/output parameters can be. I do have the old flyback, I know
the monitor size, and I have the actual circuit.

The model is marked as "Toei GM-140 TV MONITOR". It was produced around
1979; or from 1976 onwards.

My question is this: Can one retro/reverse engineer or somehow determine
what modern equivalent could replace a flyback in this circumstance. Is
this possible?



YOu may want the game to stay as it is, but if you just want to play the
game, you may want to look at some of the converter boards made that will
let you use a VGA type of display, either CRT or the newer LED types.



I have Taito B&W monitor schematics that I am trying to scan, they are
old blueprints and they have turned VERY blue, so my colour scanner is
having a bit of trouble.

Email me and I will send you what I have...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Click to expand...

Hi John, if I could look at what you have that might be the answer to my prayers. I can't find your e-mail though. Am I being dense? Is it glaring at me somewhere? Cheers.
 
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 5:43:02 AM UTC, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo <nctfs6$nl7$1@dont-email.me>, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk
escribió:

Is it purely for the raster, or LV supplies also. 1970s presumably just
the former

I would have thought any monitor of that era would have a separate LOPT
and tripler module, so is the OP's problem the LOPT or the tripler?

OP: A few photos would help. Speaks a thousand words.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) # ik ben Brussel
(")_(")
Click to expand...

I'll post as many photo's as I can later today. Cheers Mike,
 
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 8:20:10 AM UTC, Look165 wrote:
First a visual inspection gives many informations

Seond, try to check the basics (Transistors, power resistors, blown
fuses, electrolytic caps and diodes)

Fixing this thing is better than trying a replacement.

Top Cat a écrit :
I hope someone can help me.
Click to expand...

I'll post some asap. Thanks.
 
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 8:20:10 AM UTC, Look165 wrote:
First a visual inspection gives many informations

Seond, try to check the basics (Transistors, power resistors, blown
fuses, electrolytic caps and diodes)

Fixing this thing is better than trying a replacement.

Top Cat a écrit :
I hope someone can help me.
Click to expand...

I'll try and repair all I can, but fear that the Flyback may be beyone my capability. I'll work on it though, thank you. :)
 
Top Cat <thomas.is.topcat@googlemail.com> wrote:
I'll try and repair all I can, but fear that the Flyback may be beyone my
capability. I'll work on it though, thank you. :)
Click to expand...

Does the transformer smoke with the suction cup terminal hooked to the CRT?
Did you try to power the circuit with the HV terminal disconnected from the
CRT too?

Frank IZ8DWF
 
First a visual inspection gives many informations

Seond, try to check the basics (Transistors, power resistors, blown
fuses, electrolytic caps and diodes)

Fixing this thing is better than trying a replacement.

Top Cat a écrit :
I hope someone can help me.
Click to expand...
 
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