Flex circuits...

[Don Y]

What\'s the process in a flex circuit fab? How extensive
(costly) is the tooling? Is there a *practical* incentive
to select a single vendor for prototype quantities AND
production quantities? Or, does the tooling cost fade
away in the larger production buy?

I only need 1K prototypes and production will probably
be 100K+/yr. Is it worth even THINKING about the
production house at this point? Or, just write-off the
setup costs for the prototype run?

Is it easier to just leave that decision to the board fab
folks??

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-08-13, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> What\'s the process in a flex circuit fab?

It depends how many parts, and what features you want.

> How extensive (costly) is the tooling?

Ss above.

Or, does the tooling cost fade
away in the larger production buy?

The more expensive tooling is offset by reduced recurring costs.

I only need 1K prototypes and production will probably
be 100K+/yr. Is it worth even THINKING about the
production house at this point? Or, just write-off the
setup costs for the prototype run?

It\'s worth thinking about if you need to know the production cost.

Is it easier to just leave that decision to the board fab
folks??

They would be the ones with useful answers.

--
Jasen.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/14/2020 3:02 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2020-08-13, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
What\'s the process in a flex circuit fab?

It depends how many parts, and what features you want.

Yes. I received (offlist) a couple of responses which included
artwork and pricing. Apparently, many of the things you don\'t
think twice about doing with a rigid PCB are very costly in flex!

How extensive (costly) is the tooling?

Ss above.

Or, does the tooling cost fade
away in the larger production buy?

The more expensive tooling is offset by reduced recurring costs.

How so? I would just assume that hard tooling reduced the
need for RE-tooling, over time.

I only need 1K prototypes and production will probably
be 100K+/yr. Is it worth even THINKING about the
production house at this point? Or, just write-off the
setup costs for the prototype run?

It\'s worth thinking about if you need to know the production cost.

I\'d originally had the costs of the hard-tooling for some of my
injection molded parts in mind (\"not insignificant\"). But, the
tooling for flex seems to be considerably cheaper (order of
magnitude?) -- at least from the figures that I\'ve seen for the
artwork/quotes provided to me.

The concensus recommendation, so far, is to just eat the tooling for
the prototypes and let the production flex amortize *their* costs.
My volumes are high enough that hard tooling \"makes sense\".

Is it easier to just leave that decision to the board fab
folks??

They would be the ones with useful answers.

Recommendation from the folks (customers) I\'ve been talking with
suggests treating it as a component for the (rigid) fab process.
Any assembly required of/on the flex, they say, should be shopped out
to the vendor that makes the flex -- as they are more likely to be
aware of the pitfalls that one would encounter.

[I hadn\'t realized just how different from rigid PCB assembly
it actually is! I\'ve been reworking most of my artwork based on
suggestions from these examples on how to reduce costs and improve
manufacturability. Also, leaves you only \"hostage\" to the flex
vendor (for the flex tooling) instead of the rigid fab for BOTH!]

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-08-15, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 8/14/2020 3:02 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-08-13, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
What\'s the process in a flex circuit fab?

It depends how many parts, and what features you want.

Yes. I received (offlist) a couple of responses which included
artwork and pricing. Apparently, many of the things you don\'t
think twice about doing with a rigid PCB are very costly in flex!

How extensive (costly) is the tooling?

Ss above.

Or, does the tooling cost fade
away in the larger production buy?

The more expensive tooling is offset by reduced recurring costs.

How so? I would just assume that hard tooling reduced the
need for RE-tooling, over time.

Small runs can be done economically using a photographic process, larger runs might
use a silk-screen etc, this could be faster and use cheaper consumables but more
expensive tooling.

--
Jasen.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/14/2020 6:11 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

The more expensive tooling is offset by reduced recurring costs.

How so? I would just assume that hard tooling reduced the
need for RE-tooling, over time.

Small runs can be done economically using a photographic process, larger runs might
use a silk-screen etc, this could be faster and use cheaper consumables but more
expensive tooling.

Ah, OK. Make small quantities using a process that has lower/quicker
setup costs.

Hmmm... so my assumptions of tooling costs from \"prototyping\" quantities
might not be at all related to tooling costs for a production *process*.

Thanks! I\'ll have to dig deeper into the numbers...