Flat and super-flat Cat5e cable

[budgie]

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

 

[The Family]

A professional installer that I know uses this kind of stuff. He wired my
office with it. I'll ask him where he sources it.


"budgie" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:glka21t7pn8msvaoe6gjs7mek6tcdprj59@4ax.com...

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.

 

[budgie]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:19:58 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

Thanks for the tutorial, which was quite unnecessary.

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.

I am quite familiar with Cat5e. In fact I have a box of BrandRex in the
premises ATM, waiting on a source of a SHORT LENGTH of flat Cat5e to pass across
a doorway under carpet.

Did you have an answer to my posted question:

>>"Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?"

 

[Matthew Gunn]

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:


Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA


The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.
The link above sell them up to 100 feet and claim 100 metres for Gigabit

ethernet. Why do think they would make such false claims?

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:10:50 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:19:58 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

Thanks for the tutorial, which was quite unnecessary.

I didn't mean to imply you were unaware of the technical aspects
concerning structured cabling and associated requirements. If I did
then I apologise.

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.

I am quite familiar with Cat5e. In fact I have a box of BrandRex in the
premises ATM, waiting on a source of a SHORT LENGTH of flat Cat5e to pass across
a doorway under carpet.

If you are familiar with cat5e then you will be aware that
installation of any network cable directly under carpet is not a
recommended practice. At the risk of offending your intelligence, you
should be aware that anything which tends to distort or physically
affect the relationship between the conductors means that the cable in
question can no longer meet the specifications for cat5e cable.
Without knowing full details of your particular situation I would
assume you would be taking steps to prevent any pressure being exerted
on the cable where it crosses the doorway.

BTW, is the "short length" to be included as part of a much longer
run?

Did you have an answer to my posted question:

I haven't seen it anywhere in Australia and I don't think anyone else
would have either. The demand for such a product would have to be
quite large in order to be a cost effective alternative compared to
normal round cable.

"Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?"

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 08:48:44 +0800, Matthew Gunn
<matthewgunn_au@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:


Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA


The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.

The link above sell them up to 100 feet and claim 100 metres for Gigabit
ethernet. Why do think they would make such false claims?

They probably don't care whether the cable actually meet the specs for
cat5e, they just want to sell it. I find it difficult to believe that
a flat cable structure can actually meet the specs which rely upon
the conductors and individual pairs having a specific physical
relationship to one another. This relationship can only be attained by
the cable being round, not flat. If it were that simple then surely
all the major cable manufacturers would be on the bandwagon I would
think.

 

[budgie]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 02:48:59 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:10:50 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:19:58 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

Thanks for the tutorial, which was quite unnecessary.

I didn't mean to imply you were unaware of the technical aspects
concerning structured cabling and associated requirements. If I did
then I apologise.

accepted ;-)

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.

I am quite familiar with Cat5e. In fact I have a box of BrandRex in the
premises ATM, waiting on a source of a SHORT LENGTH of flat Cat5e to pass across
a doorway under carpet.

If you are familiar with cat5e then you will be aware that
installation of any network cable directly under carpet is not a
recommended practice. At the risk of offending your intelligence, you
should be aware that anything which tends to distort or physically
affect the relationship between the conductors means that the cable in
question can no longer meet the specifications for cat5e cable.
Without knowing full details of your particular situation I would
assume you would be taking steps to prevent any pressure being exerted
on the cable where it crosses the doorway.

Yes I am able to do that. It's preferable option to a round which will cause a
definite lump - protected or not - and probably be the trigger for accidents and
litigation ;-)

Besides, until I see some I won't know what measures (if any) that the
manufacturer has taken to maintain the lay under pressure.

BTW, is the "short length" to be included as part of a much longer
run?

It will be the "last mile" to an outlet on an isolated piece of wall, and a drop
from above is not practical, nor is burrowing from below. Trust me, I have
canvassed all alternatives (other than wireless) before embarking on this
search.

This last mile will be a few metres at the end of a 12m run from the router.

Did you have an answer to my posted question:

I haven't seen it anywhere in Australia and I don't think anyone else
would have either. The demand for such a product would have to be
quite large in order to be a cost effective alternative compared to
normal round cable.

I don't envisage it being applied generally as a cost-competitive alternative to
standard Cat5e. Rather, for specific situations as promoted on the cited
websites where "round" won't fit the situation. Hence I would expect it to
attract a substantial price premium.

The response from The Family indicates that it is here ....

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:50:31 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 02:48:59 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 20:10:50 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:19:58 GMT, Ross Herbert <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 13:45:32 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

The info provided indicates that the conductors in this cable are
stranded and while the individual pairs are twisted they must lie side
by side to produce a flat cable. It is well known that even the round
cat5e stranded patch cable has higher attenuation (up to 20% higher
than solid utp) than the solid core cat5e UTP cable and it is not
recommended for horizontal network cable links and should be used for
than patch cords and workstation connection leads. The flat cable
would be unlikely to meet the stringent requirements for cat5e network
links due to the side by side nature of the individual pairs and it
would only suitable for short interconnection leads (up to a total of
10M including patch cords and equipment connections at both ends.

Thanks for the tutorial, which was quite unnecessary.

I didn't mean to imply you were unaware of the technical aspects
concerning structured cabling and associated requirements. If I did
then I apologise.

accepted ;-)

I haven't been able to find a recognised manufacturer for this cable
eg. neither Belden or General Cable (formerly BICC Brand Rex) make it
and I suspect that it comes from some obscure Chinese or Taiwanese
manufacturer. I have found one US supplier who sells the flat cable in
bulk rolls of 250 feet. The standard bulk length packs for round cat5
UTP are 304M (or 500M)and this is what the cablers will be using.

I am quite familiar with Cat5e. In fact I have a box of BrandRex in the
premises ATM, waiting on a source of a SHORT LENGTH of flat Cat5e to pass across
a doorway under carpet.

If you are familiar with cat5e then you will be aware that
installation of any network cable directly under carpet is not a
recommended practice. At the risk of offending your intelligence, you
should be aware that anything which tends to distort or physically
affect the relationship between the conductors means that the cable in
question can no longer meet the specifications for cat5e cable.
Without knowing full details of your particular situation I would
assume you would be taking steps to prevent any pressure being exerted
on the cable where it crosses the doorway.

Yes I am able to do that. It's preferable option to a round which will cause a
definite lump - protected or not - and probably be the trigger for accidents and
litigation ;-)

Besides, until I see some I won't know what measures (if any) that the
manufacturer has taken to maintain the lay under pressure.

BTW, is the "short length" to be included as part of a much longer
run?

It will be the "last mile" to an outlet on an isolated piece of wall, and a drop
from above is not practical, nor is burrowing from below. Trust me, I have
canvassed all alternatives (other than wireless) before embarking on this
search.

This last mile will be a few metres at the end of a 12m run from the router.

Did you have an answer to my posted question:

I haven't seen it anywhere in Australia and I don't think anyone else
would have either. The demand for such a product would have to be
quite large in order to be a cost effective alternative compared to
normal round cable.

I don't envisage it being applied generally as a cost-competitive alternative to
standard Cat5e. Rather, for specific situations as promoted on the cited
websites where "round" won't fit the situation. Hence I would expect it to
attract a substantial price premium.

The response from The Family indicates that it is here ....

Yes I noticed that.

I discovered the flat cable is of Chinese origin
http://changbao.en.alibaba.com/product/50035264/50160835/LAN_Cables/Cat6__Flat_UTP__Cable.html
but it doesn't show up on the english pages of their website
http://www.changbao.com.cn/en/cp.php

 

[Ed ()]

why not use flat 2pair telephone cable for the under the carpet, its
cheap and available anywhere

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:54:53 +0800, "Ed \(\)" <bounce@gov> wrote:

why not use flat 2pair telephone cable for the under the carpet, its
cheap and available anywhere

Because the flat 4w, 6w and 8w modular cable (which is common) is cat3
only and using this to add on to a cat5e utp network cable may cause
problems. It may well work and might be worth a try but only if the
job is for oneself. If the job is for a client then I wouldn't do it.

 

[robert casey]

Yes I am able to do that. It's preferable option to a round which will cause a
definite lump - protected or not - and probably be the trigger for accidents and
litigation ;-)

Besides, until I see some I won't know what measures (if any) that the
manufacturer has taken to maintain the lay under pressure.

What if you just remove the outer jacket and spread the twisted
pairs such that each twisted pair is somewhat isolated from the
other pairs so all lie flat on the floor under the carpet?
Such that each twisted pair of wires stays twisted together but
loose from the other twisted pairs. Each pair shouldn't *much* care
about being away from the others. The carpeting should spread
out any pressure from above to avoid crushing.

 

[budgie]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 21:53:26 GMT, robert casey <wa2ise@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Yes I am able to do that. It's preferable option to a round which will cause a
definite lump - protected or not - and probably be the trigger for accidents and
litigation ;-)

Besides, until I see some I won't know what measures (if any) that the
manufacturer has taken to maintain the lay under pressure.


What if you just remove the outer jacket and spread the twisted
pairs such that each twisted pair is somewhat isolated from the
other pairs so all lie flat on the floor under the carpet?
Such that each twisted pair of wires stays twisted together but
loose from the other twisted pairs. Each pair shouldn't *much* care
about being away from the others. The carpeting should spread
out any pressure from above to avoid crushing.

IME that should work, but certainly would be harder to get them all down there.
The carpet is already laid through several rooms and anchored with smooth-edge.
I don't really want to engage a carpet layer just to put it all bcak after I rip
it up to lay cables. The flat I can tease through under the carpet across the
offending "doorway", but if I try to pull four pairs across I couldn't be
certain of their lay under the carpet without X-ray vision.

 

[budgie]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:43:46 +1030, "The Family" <someone@somewhere.com> wrote:

A professional installer that I know uses this kind of stuff. He wired my
office with it. I'll ask him where he sources it.

Great! Any feedback? (yes, I'm eager to get this job finished) ;-)

"budgie" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:glka21t7pn8msvaoe6gjs7mek6tcdprj59@4ax.com...
Has anyone seen this type of cable being sold here in Oz?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html

TIA

 

[budgie]

Have you been able to interrogate your professional installer and obtain any
info re a source for this exotic stuff?

 

[dmm]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:49:04 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Have you been able to interrogate your professional installer and obtain any
info re a source for this exotic stuff?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1216701&sku=C250-1216

Here are some patch cables.
Evernew and Cables Unlimited seem to be names that keep cropping up.

 

[budgie]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:38:36 +1000, dmm <dmmilne_REMOVE_@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:49:04 +0800, budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

Have you been able to interrogate your professional installer and obtain any
info re a source for this exotic stuff?

http://www.networktechinc.com/cable-cat5ef.html
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1216701&sku=C250-1216

You obviously didn't read (or recall) the original thread.

Here are some patch cables.
Evernew and Cables Unlimited seem to be names that keep cropping up.

Ain't for patch cables.

But thanks for your interest.