First appearance of lead-free solder inside electronic equip

N

N_Cook

Guest
Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does that set
the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html
"The soldering on every aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder,
released in March 2001, is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied
accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both export
and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:h46oma$rkt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does
that set the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html
"The soldering on every aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder,
released in March 2001, is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied
accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both
export and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
Click to expand...
Have manufacturers standardized the lead-free solder used?
Is there a common lead-free repair solder?
How does one determine what type of LF solder to be used?

Yikes,what a mess.....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5056BA4AE14jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86...
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:h46oma$rkt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does
that set the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html
"The soldering on every aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder,
released in March 2001, is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied
accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both
export and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




Have manufacturers standardized the lead-free solder used?
Is there a common lead-free repair solder?
How does one determine what type of LF solder to be used?

Yikes,what a mess.....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Click to expand...
No standardisation as far as I'm aware Jim, but it's all much of a muchness.
After a great deal of experimentation with lead frees for repair purposes, I
finally settled on Ersin 309 from Multicore. With the temperature of your
iron jacked up about 15 - 20 degrees C, it behaves reasonably similarly to
leaded solder. Some people I know swear by lead free that's got a touch of
silver in it, but it's quite a bit more expensive, and to date, I haven't
had any problems getting the '309 to 'stick'.

Choosing a solder is, I think, largely a matter of personal preference. The
only recommendations that I've seen is that leaded and non leaded shouldn't
be mixed in the same joint, as it can lead to long term degradation of the
joint's integrity. To that end, it's important to look for the slashed out
Pb symbol or the letters "PbF" on the board, or learn to recognise a
lead-free joint (not hard as they all look like cold bad joints) on boards
that are not marked.

You are right. The whole thing is a bloody mess, as is the entire subject of
recycling and waste management in electronics service. When I have time, I
have a slightly off-topic thread to start on a specific angle of this, that
came to my attention last week ...

Arfa
 
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5056BA4AE14jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86...
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:h46oma$rkt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does
that set the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html
"The soldering on every aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder,
released in March 2001, is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied
accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both
export and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




Have manufacturers standardized the lead-free solder used?
Is there a common lead-free repair solder?
How does one determine what type of LF solder to be used?

Yikes,what a mess.....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Click to expand...

Where the box has a green RoHS sticker or PbF on the board overlay I use
silver solder, with nothing sofar come bouncing back with an incompatibility
issue, but early days yet. Bit more expensive but , in terms of time,
scrapping off the tin of RoHS compliant components , for tinpest compliance,
is more expensive.



--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:11:36 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5056BA4AE14jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86...
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:h46oma$rkt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does
that set the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html "The soldering on every
aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder, released in March 2001,
is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both
export and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair
briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




Have manufacturers standardized the lead-free solder used? Is there a
common lead-free repair solder? How does one determine what type of LF
solder to be used?

Yikes,what a mess.....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

No standardisation as far as I'm aware Jim, but it's all much of a
muchness. After a great deal of experimentation with lead frees for
repair purposes, I finally settled on Ersin 309 from Multicore. With the
temperature of your iron jacked up about 15 - 20 degrees C, it behaves
reasonably similarly to leaded solder. Some people I know swear by lead
free that's got a touch of silver in it, but it's quite a bit more
expensive, and to date, I haven't had any problems getting the '309 to
'stick'.

Choosing a solder is, I think, largely a matter of personal preference.
The only recommendations that I've seen is that leaded and non leaded
shouldn't be mixed in the same joint, as it can lead to long term
degradation of the joint's integrity. To that end, it's important to
look for the slashed out Pb symbol or the letters "PbF" on the board, or
learn to recognise a lead-free joint (not hard as they all look like
cold bad joints) on boards that are not marked.

You are right. The whole thing is a bloody mess, as is the entire
subject of recycling and waste management in electronics service. When I
have time, I have a slightly off-topic thread to start on a specific
angle of this, that came to my attention last week ...

Arfa
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the history majors have wormed their way into gov't
and bureaucracy. Their knee jerk reactions to "poisons" is crippling our
economies. Everything is poisonous if it is in the wrong place at the
wrong time. A pint of water can kill you also.

Al
 
"alchazz" <no.spam@wanted.com> wrote in message
news:tSE9m.764$MA3.91@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:11:36 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5056BA4AE14jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86...
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:h46oma$rkt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does
that set the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html "The soldering on every
aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder, released in March 2001,
is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both
export and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair
briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




Have manufacturers standardized the lead-free solder used? Is there a
common lead-free repair solder? How does one determine what type of LF
solder to be used?

Yikes,what a mess.....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

No standardisation as far as I'm aware Jim, but it's all much of a
muchness. After a great deal of experimentation with lead frees for
repair purposes, I finally settled on Ersin 309 from Multicore. With the
temperature of your iron jacked up about 15 - 20 degrees C, it behaves
reasonably similarly to leaded solder. Some people I know swear by lead
free that's got a touch of silver in it, but it's quite a bit more
expensive, and to date, I haven't had any problems getting the '309 to
'stick'.

Choosing a solder is, I think, largely a matter of personal preference.
The only recommendations that I've seen is that leaded and non leaded
shouldn't be mixed in the same joint, as it can lead to long term
degradation of the joint's integrity. To that end, it's important to
look for the slashed out Pb symbol or the letters "PbF" on the board, or
learn to recognise a lead-free joint (not hard as they all look like
cold bad joints) on boards that are not marked.

You are right. The whole thing is a bloody mess, as is the entire
subject of recycling and waste management in electronics service. When I
have time, I have a slightly off-topic thread to start on a specific
angle of this, that came to my attention last week ...

Arfa

It seems to me that the history majors have wormed their way into gov't
and bureaucracy. Their knee jerk reactions to "poisons" is crippling our
economies. Everything is poisonous if it is in the wrong place at the
wrong time. A pint of water can kill you also.

Al
Click to expand...
I've certainly got no argument with any of your points there. The word I
coined for this whole sorry mess is "ecobollox", and the people behind it,
"The Green Mist Brigade" ...

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:eeE9m.30756$qu3.22110@newsfe18.ams2...
"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5056BA4AE14jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86...
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:h46oma$rkt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001, does
that set the earliest date possible ?

eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html
"The soldering on every aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder,
released in March 2001, is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied
accessories. "

presumably only one production line and stocking regime, so for both
export and domestic use

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/




Have manufacturers standardized the lead-free solder used?
Is there a common lead-free repair solder?
How does one determine what type of LF solder to be used?

Yikes,what a mess.....

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

No standardisation as far as I'm aware Jim, but it's all much of a
muchness.
After a great deal of experimentation with lead frees for repair purposes,
I
finally settled on Ersin 309 from Multicore. With the temperature of your
iron jacked up about 15 - 20 degrees C, it behaves reasonably similarly to
leaded solder. Some people I know swear by lead free that's got a touch of
silver in it, but it's quite a bit more expensive, and to date, I haven't
had any problems getting the '309 to 'stick'.

Choosing a solder is, I think, largely a matter of personal preference.
The
only recommendations that I've seen is that leaded and non leaded
shouldn't
be mixed in the same joint, as it can lead to long term degradation of the
joint's integrity. To that end, it's important to look for the slashed out
Pb symbol or the letters "PbF" on the board, or learn to recognise a
lead-free joint (not hard as they all look like cold bad joints) on boards
that are not marked.

You are right. The whole thing is a bloody mess, as is the entire subject
of
recycling and waste management in electronics service. When I have time, I
have a slightly off-topic thread to start on a specific angle of this,
that
came to my attention last week ...

Arfa
Click to expand...
I don't have your confidence in recognising PbF.
Anyone know their chemistry ?
Test for lead , but would it work with alloyed lead with tin. ?
Yellow precipitate forms with potassium chromate or
potassium iodide. Does tin combine with iodine or
chromium to give a yellow compound?

So far this is my hints/tips for lead free,
but could do with somrthing more definite.
Is that lead-free solder ? some simple, but not definitive
test for lead-free solder.
Lead-free production probably started in Japan in 2001 eg
Japan passed the Electric Appliance Recycling Law, April 2001
eg
http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/011541.html
"The soldering on every aspect of Sony's DCR-TRV 30 digital camcorder,
released in March 2001, is 99.7% lead-free, including all supplied
accessories. " So probably sets the earliest date.
Genuine , not just assembled, manufactured in USA
is probably lead free solder , up to 2009 anyway.
If a green RoHS sticker on the outside or PbF
marked on the pcb overlay , then lead-free solder.
Some hints for deciding, probabalistically.
If the solder joints have a conical form with sharp
points where component leads emerge then probably lead-free,
compared to a more domed form for leaded.
If more temperature is required to melt the solder
then probably lead-free.
Is the surface appearance of the solder a dusty grey long
before you would otherwise expect it to look old,
asuming its not been stored in a shed or garage.
When you desolder some with a 700 degree F iron, is it "claggy"
ie pastey and lumpy in texture ?
If when molten you push in a stainless sewing needle and extract it
before the solder hardens and leaves a trace on the needle,
leaded will only require a finger nail to remove it
but lead-free will more likely need pliers to remove it
from the needle.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
I happen to have some potassium dichromate (not chromate) around, but a
solution of that on freshly scored lead sheet shows no obvious colour change
to the lead surface.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
Another label to watch out for.
A sticker in the manner of road traffic prohibition sign stuck to the pcb.
Circle with a diagonal bar and letters P and b either side.
On today's latest pbf horror, made in 2007 with solder joints that look like
they're made by a teenage trainee on his fist day and white dusty finish
that looks as though its been in a garden shed for 10 years


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h4a2ck$e6p$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Another label to watch out for.
A sticker in the manner of road traffic prohibition sign stuck to the pcb.
Circle with a diagonal bar and letters P and b either side.
On today's latest pbf horror, made in 2007 with solder joints that look
like
they're made by a teenage trainee on his fist day and white dusty finish
that looks as though its been in a garden shed for 10 years


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
Click to expand...
That's a better description of the symbol I called "slashed out Pb". As to
your horror of the day, I despair as to what we are stacking up for
ourselves in a few years' time, if this is allowed to go on ...

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:gV0am.73882$l73.39168@newsfe11.ams2...
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h4a2ck$e6p$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Another label to watch out for.
A sticker in the manner of road traffic prohibition sign stuck to the
pcb.
Circle with a diagonal bar and letters P and b either side.
On today's latest pbf horror, made in 2007 with solder joints that look
like
they're made by a teenage trainee on his fist day and white dusty finish
that looks as though its been in a garden shed for 10 years


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/



That's a better description of the symbol I called "slashed out Pb". As
to
your horror of the day, I despair as to what we are stacking up for
ourselves in a few years' time, if this is allowed to go on ...

Arfa
Click to expand...
Someone paid 800 GBP for this amp and in 2 years it is self destructing,
tantamount to fraud.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:h492oq$9i2$1@news.eternal-september.org...
I happen to have some potassium dichromate (not chromate) around, but a
solution of that on freshly scored lead sheet shows no obvious colour
change
to the lead surface.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
Click to expand...

I tried some potassium dichromate, dissolved in some hot water, allowed to
cool and then placed in a small plastic lid. 3 samples , some scrapings of
lead sheet, some scrapings of silver solder and some lead-free solder
scrapings. Allowed to soak for three hours, towelled up the liquid and
allowed to dry out overnight. The only samples with any yellow colouring
were the lead ones, but I cannot convince myself it was not just a coating
of fine crystals of orange K dichromate, too thin to see the orange colour.
the lead-free scrapings were as silvery as when pared off.



--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
 
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