Fender good - Gibson, poor ...

A

Arfa Daily

Guest
So, following on from my good experience every time when info is needed from
Fender, apparently backed up by Mr Cook's experience earlier this week,
today I tried the same thing with another reputable company - Gibson, as in
Les Paul.

I had a little Gibson Goldtone "Les Paul Junior" amplifier turn up, reported
"dead". And indeed it was, because the fuse in the IEC inlet was blown,
badly. It had an American power lead on it, plugged into UK adaptor, which
started alarm bells ringing. I replaced the fuse, and wound the supply up on
the variac, whilst monitoring the AC heater volts of the output valve. It
was at exactly 6.3 volts when the variac was at about 110 volts, confirming
that this was indeed a U.S. spec amplifier. A quick check with the owner
revealed that it was a recent acquisition, and the person that sold it to
him had told him that the adaptor was everything that it needed to make it
work in the UK ...

Anyways, I digress. Looking at the transformer wiring, there was a couple of
twisted pairs and a sealed-off white wire around the primary side of things,
so I figured that this might well be a split primary tranny with the two
windings currently in parallel, and a +10v tap that was unused. I went to
the Gibson website to see if I could find a copy of the schematic to verify
that it was indeed a 'universal' transformer. Of course, there was every
schematic for every guitar and amplifier they have ever sold, except this
little Junior ... So I emailed technical to ask for it. Some hours later, I
got a reply from somewhere in Europe saying that they did not have the
schematic, but fortunately, it was available on the net. This was followed
by a link about a thousand characters long, to Google images, where there
are several not-very-good GIF images that have been drawn by third parties.
And of course, none of them have bothered to show a split primary
transformer.

Sad to say, this made me a bit mad and I sent an email back telling them
what I thought of a supposedly reputable large company that did not have
schematics for products that they sold, and then had the gall to refer
people to third party schematics on the net.

Fortunately, having many years of experience in this game, I managed to
figure which wires were which, and to get the two windings wired in series
and in the correct phase to make it 240 volt. But how much easier it would
have been to have had a schematic with a configuration table to do it from.

Am I being unreasonable expecting them to have information on a product that
they proudly put their name to ? I mean, this thing ain't cheap. Looking on
the net, they seem to go for anything from $350 to $500 + which is a lot
for a very simple 2 valve 5 watt amp ...

Arfa
 
"Arfa Daily"

( snip piles of AD's retarded drivel)

Am I being unreasonable expecting them to have information on a product
that they proudly put their name to ? I mean, this thing ain't cheap.
Looking on the net, they seem to go for anything from $350 to $500 +
which is a lot for a very simple 2 valve 5 watt amp ...

** See pic:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gibson-goldtone-les-paul-jr.-amp

Who but AD would bother to even look for a schem for an amp whose wiring was
as self evident as this ??

As for the AC wiring for the transformer, I have been sent drawings for 120V
to 240V conversion that were WRONG - so even more reason not to bother.



..... Phil
 
Phil, it is against the law for you to have a gun.

It is not against the law for you to go out hunting crocodiles.

T
 
"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:b34ptpFnkffU1@mid.individual.net...
"Arfa Daily"

( snip piles of AD's retarded drivel)

Am I being unreasonable expecting them to have information on a product
that they proudly put their name to ? I mean, this thing ain't cheap.
Looking on the net, they seem to go for anything from $350 to $500 +
which is a lot for a very simple 2 valve 5 watt amp ...


** See pic:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gibson-goldtone-les-paul-jr.-amp

And that link is of use to me because ... ?


Who but AD would bother to even look for a schem for an amp whose wiring
was as self evident as this ??

But why not ? The 'net is there ever-present. Most schematics from reputable
companies are available. Would you say that the transformer primary wiring
of say a Fender was "self-evident" ? They obviously think not, as they have
multiple sub-schems of the transformer wiring on their diagrams, and a
configuration chart for the wire colours. This little Gibson had just as
many wires as a Fender does. Yes, it *was* self evident that there at least
appeared to be two primary windings that were currently connected in
parallel for 110 volts, but it would have been nice to see that in black and
white, and to know which colour wires went to each end of the primaries to
ensure that I got them phased correctly the first time. It would also have
been nice to have known exactly what sort of tap the unused white wire was.

I don't know about you, but I am in the business to make money, and every
few minutes saved by not having to prat around working things out for
yourself, is another few minutes of potential earning time ...


As for the AC wiring for the transformer, I have been sent drawings for
120V to 240V conversion that were WRONG - so even more reason not to
bother.



.... Phil
Yes, well, of course you would have - it's the contentious thing to say,
isn't it ? We've all seen diagrams that are wrong, but it's probably a lot
less common than your statement would imply. And if there had have been a
diagram, and the colours of the wires matched what was actually in the amp,
and the schematic seemed to go along with that, then there's a pretty damn
good chance that it *would* have been right.

Arfa
>
 
"Arfa Daily = Nut Case "

"Phil Allison" ...

( snip piles of AD's retarded drivel)

Am I being unreasonable expecting them to have information on a product
that they proudly put their name to ? I mean, this thing ain't cheap.
Looking on the net, they seem to go for anything from $350 to $500 +
which is a lot for a very simple 2 valve 5 watt amp ...


** See pic:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gibson-goldtone-les-paul-jr.-amp


And that link is of use to me because ... ?

** My post is clearly written to the NG - you illiterate, pommy idiot.

It clearly shows YOU were BULLSHITTING us something putrid !!!!!!!!


Who but AD would bother to even look for a schem for an amp whose wiring
was as self evident as this ??


But why not ?
** Because there is no reason to - fuckwit !!!!

( snip whole pile of self serving, AD crap )


I don't know about you, but I am in the business to make money, and every
few minutes saved by not having to prat around working things out for
yourself, is another few minutes of potential earning time ...
** Fruitless web searching IS a MASSIVE waste of time.

Then compounding your mistake, you wasted even more time arguing with the
makers etc.

FACT:

Sorting out the AC side wires would take me or any competent tech about 5
minutes.

QED !!!!!!!!!



As for the AC wiring for the transformer, I have been sent drawings for
120V to 240V conversion that were WRONG - so even more reason not to
bother.


Yes, well, of course you would have - it's the contentious thing to say,
isn't it ?
** It is a FACT though.

The diagram supplied (by email) to me by the makers of a Gallien Krueger
RB1000 had the colours of the AC wires WRONG. Followed exactly, it resulted
in the AC fuse exploding.

PLUS:

There is NO guarantee that the colours shown on any amplifier diagram are
right for every example and forever.

PLUS:

You suffer from colour blindness !!!!!!!!

Wot a bullshitting DICKHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Piss off.



..... Phil
 
<snip everything you have to say>

As ever, it is you who is the fuckwit, Philip. You have decided to go off on
one of your rants, completely missing the point of what the post was about.
Most of what you say is irrelevant crap based on invalid context snipping.

You are totally insane except when you have your meds in check, and I have
absolutely no interest in anything you have to say regarding my post, as I
suspect is probably the case with everyone else on here.

Piss off and harass some other group.

Twat.

Arfa
 
"Arfa Daily = Nut Case "
( snip piles of AD's retarded drivel)

Am I being unreasonable expecting them to have information on a product
that they proudly put their name to ? I mean, this thing ain't cheap.
Looking on the net, they seem to go for anything from $350 to $500 +
which is a lot for a very simple 2 valve 5 watt amp ...


** See pic:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gibson-goldtone-les-paul-jr.-amp


And that link is of use to me because ... ?

** My post is clearly written to the NG - you illiterate, pommy idiot.

The pic of the chassis clearly shows YOU were BULLSHITTING us something
putrid !!!!!!!!


Who but AD would bother to even look for a schem for an amp whose wiring
was as self evident as this ??


But why not ?
** Because there is no reason to - fuckwit !!!!

( snip whole pile of self serving, AD crap )


I don't know about you, but I am in the business to make money, and every
few minutes saved by not having to prat around working things out for
yourself, is another few minutes of potential earning time ...
** Fruitless web searching IS a MASSIVE waste of time.

Then compounding your mistake, you wasted even more time arguing with the
makers etc.

FACT:

Sorting out the AC side wires would take me or any competent tech about 5
minutes.

QED !!!!!!!!!



Yes, well, of course you would have - it's the contentious thing to say,
isn't it ?
** It is a FACT though.

The diagram supplied (by email) to me by the makers of a Gallien Krueger
RB1000 had the colours of the AC wires WRONG. Followed exactly, it resulted
in the AC fuse exploding.

PLUS:

There is NO guarantee that the colours shown on any amplifier diagram are
right for every example and forever.

PLUS:

You suffer from colour blindness !!!!!!!!

Wot a bullshitting DICKHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Piss off.



..... Phil
 
And now you're repeating yourself and STILL not understanding what the post
was about.

Off to the doc post haste Philip, and get him to check your meds again ...
:)

Arfa
 
""Arfa Daily = Nut Case "
** See pic:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gibson-goldtone-les-paul-jr.-amp


And that link is of use to me because ... ?

** My post was clearly written to the NG - you illiterate, pommy idiot.

The pic of the chassis clearly shows YOU were BULLSHITTING us something
putrid !!!!!!!!



Who but AD would bother to even look for a schem for an amp whose wiring
was as self evident as this ??


But why not ?

** Because there is no reason to - fuckwit !!!!

( snip whole pile of self serving, AD crap )


I don't know about you, but I am in the business to make money, and every
few minutes saved by not having to prat around working things out for
yourself, is another few minutes of potential earning time ...
** Fruitless web searching IS a MASSIVE waste of time.

Then compounding your mistake, you wasted even more time arguing with the
makers etc.

FACT:

Sorting out the AC side wires would take me or any competent tech about 5
minutes.

PLUS:

There is NO guarantee that the colours shown on any amplifier diagram are
right for every example and forever.

PLUS:

You suffer from colour blindness !!!!!!!!

Wot a bullshitting DICKHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Piss off - you pathetic WANKER!!



..... Phil
 
Wot a bullshitting DICKHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Piss off - you pathetic WANKER!!



....
Phil


And now you're talking to yourself as well !!!!

Oh what a sad, sad case you are Philip ... :)

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
So, following on from my good experience every time when info is needed from
Fender, apparently backed up by Mr Cook's experience earlier this week,
today I tried the same thing with another reputable company - Gibson, as in
Les Paul.

I had a little Gibson Goldtone "Les Paul Junior" amplifier turn up, reported
"dead". And indeed it was, because the fuse in the IEC inlet was blown,
badly. It had an American power lead on it, plugged into UK adaptor, which
started alarm bells ringing. I replaced the fuse, and wound the supply up on
the variac, whilst monitoring the AC heater volts of the output valve. It
was at exactly 6.3 volts when the variac was at about 110 volts, confirming
that this was indeed a U.S. spec amplifier. A quick check with the owner
revealed that it was a recent acquisition, and the person that sold it to
him had told him that the adaptor was everything that it needed to make it
work in the UK ...

Anyways, I digress. Looking at the transformer wiring, there was a couple of
twisted pairs and a sealed-off white wire around the primary side of things,
so I figured that this might well be a split primary tranny with the two
windings currently in parallel, and a +10v tap that was unused. I went to
the Gibson website to see if I could find a copy of the schematic to verify
that it was indeed a 'universal' transformer. Of course, there was every
schematic for every guitar and amplifier they have ever sold, except this
little Junior ... So I emailed technical to ask for it. Some hours later, I
got a reply from somewhere in Europe saying that they did not have the
schematic, but fortunately, it was available on the net. This was followed
by a link about a thousand characters long, to Google images, where there
are several not-very-good GIF images that have been drawn by third parties.
And of course, none of them have bothered to show a split primary
transformer.

Sad to say, this made me a bit mad and I sent an email back telling them
what I thought of a supposedly reputable large company that did not have
If they were reputable to start with, the input wiring diagram would be
marked inside the chassis, along side the typical warnings.
 
If they were reputable to start with, the input wiring diagram would be
marked inside the chassis, along side the typical warnings.
There's very few items come with any kind of schematic these days ...

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
If they were reputable to start with, the input wiring diagram would be
marked inside the chassis, along side the typical warnings.


There's very few items come with any kind of schematic these days ...

Arfa
True. The last things may be appliances sometimes have those cryptic
appliance schematics. I have a china prison industries mini fridge that
has a wiring diagram on it the rear. I'm not sure why, as nobody would
ever service such a thing anyways. Even better is there's only one loop of
wire in the damn thing anyways- power cord to thermostat to compressor.
There's no light or defrost time/heater or evaporator fan to even make it
interesting.
 
"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:kr29gs$2j5$1@reader2.panix.com...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:



If they were reputable to start with, the input wiring diagram would be
marked inside the chassis, along side the typical warnings.


There's very few items come with any kind of schematic these days ...

Arfa

True. The last things may be appliances sometimes have those cryptic
appliance schematics. I have a china prison industries mini fridge that
has a wiring diagram on it the rear. I'm not sure why, as nobody would
ever service such a thing anyways. Even better is there's only one loop of
wire in the damn thing anyways- power cord to thermostat to compressor.
There's no light or defrost time/heater or evaporator fan to even make it
interesting.
You're right - they are cryptic, aren't they ? A bit like car schematics.
Not only do they use odd symbols, they also use odd ways of indicating what
connects to what.

A bit like Philips service manuals, really ... :)

Arfa
 
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:kr29gs$2j5$1@reader2.panix.com...
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:



If they were reputable to start with, the input wiring diagram would be
marked inside the chassis, along side the typical warnings.


There's very few items come with any kind of schematic these days ...

Arfa

True. The last things may be appliances sometimes have those cryptic
appliance schematics. I have a china prison industries mini fridge that
has a wiring diagram on it the rear. I'm not sure why, as nobody would
ever service such a thing anyways. Even better is there's only one loop of
wire in the damn thing anyways- power cord to thermostat to compressor.
There's no light or defrost time/heater or evaporator fan to even make it
interesting.



You're right - they are cryptic, aren't they ? A bit like car schematics.
Not only do they use odd symbols, they also use odd ways of indicating what
connects to what.

A bit like Philips service manuals, really ... :)
I guess at least in appliances, they tend to not wrap every wiring harness
with loom and extra layer of electrical tape. I plain out tell people, if
it's broken, uses electricity and isn't a car, I may be willing to take a
look at it. Even nonsense machinery with stuff like all black or
white/white with yellow tracer stripes is more pleasing to deal with. I
feel no shame in tagging every ambigious cable/connector/wire with these
things

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_management/wire_markers/wire_marker_booklets.jsp
 

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