Fauci: Masks, Social Distancing Likely Until 2022...

[server]

\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public -- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead, he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate for an approved vaccine.\"

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201022/fauci-masks-social-distancing-likely-until-2022

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/24/7/17-1699_article

The effectiveness of the mask is beyond 99.9% and it doesn\'t cost nearly as much. People just aren\'t interested in something that doesn\'t cost a lot of money and requires a little bit of discipline.

 

[Ricketty C]

On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:50:13 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public -- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead, he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate for an approved vaccine.\"

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201022/fauci-masks-social-distancing-likely-until-2022

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/24/7/17-1699_article

The effectiveness of the mask is beyond 99.9% and it doesn\'t cost nearly as much. People just aren\'t interested in something that doesn\'t cost a lot of money and requires a little bit of discipline.

None of these masks will be 99.9% effective when worn. It is virtually impossible to achieve that level of seal against the skin with a simple construction. So 95% effective measured is probably as good as 99.9% measured when it comes to real world conditions.

What\'s more important is that masks offer somewhat less protection when not worn on the face at all. And I personally believe it is even more important to understand that it is even MORE important to realize that no mask or social distancing or any of the other measures will assure that you are protected. The benefit of taking protective measures is in reducing the rate of infection over the population as a whole.

The bottom line is you can\'t live in a bubble... unless you live in a bubble. The best way to fight this disease is to practice the best self protective measures you can and allow the disease to spread at an ever reducing rate until it can be managed with contact tracing... and actually do effective contact tracing.

MD and VA are presently not in the group of states with significantly rising infection rates. The infection and death rates are not as high as many states, but they are higher than many countries with the similar populations.. South Korea is amazing with fewer total infections and deaths than the US has in one day.

Why can\'t we learn from those who are making it work???

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 7:30:26 AM UTC+11, Ricketty C wrote:
> On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:50:13 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>

MD and VA are presently not in the group of states with significantly rising infection rates. The infection and death rates are not as high as many states, but they are higher than many countries with the similar populations. South Korea is amazing with fewer total infections and deaths than the US has in one day.

Why can\'t we learn from those who are making it work???

It\'s called \"American exceptionalism\" and depends on the idea that America is unique - which it was at one point, until everybody else noticed it was doing remarkably well and copied the good bits. They also rejected some of the founding tax evaders less useful innovations - the executive presidency and the electoral college come to mind. American exceptionalists think that the grab-bag of innovations that founding tax evaders put together was some kind of complete prescription for a perfect society and pay no attention to anything that\'s done in the rest-of-the-world, which isn\'t a perfect copy of what they\'ve got, and correspondingly irrelevant.

It\'s the worst kind of magical thinking, but remarkably popular in America. James Arthur articulates it here from time to time. John Doe expresses much the same opinion rather less elegantly. They are both nuts.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 10/24/2020 4:30 PM, Ricketty C wrote:

On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:50:13 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public -- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead, he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate for an approved vaccine.\"

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201022/fauci-masks-social-distancing-likely-until-2022

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/24/7/17-1699_article

The effectiveness of the mask is beyond 99.9% and it doesn\'t cost nearly as much. People just aren\'t interested in something that doesn\'t cost a lot of money and requires a little bit of discipline.

None of these masks will be 99.9% effective when worn. It is virtually impossible to achieve that level of seal against the skin with a simple construction. So 95% effective measured is probably as good as 99.9% measured when it comes to real world conditions.

What\'s more important is that masks offer somewhat less protection when not worn on the face at all. And I personally believe it is even more important to understand that it is even MORE important to realize that no mask or social distancing or any of the other measures will assure that you are protected. The benefit of taking protective measures is in reducing the rate of infection over the population as a whole.

The bottom line is you can\'t live in a bubble... unless you live in a bubble. The best way to fight this disease is to practice the best self protective measures you can and allow the disease to spread at an ever reducing rate until it can be managed with contact tracing... and actually do effective contact tracing.

MD and VA are presently not in the group of states with significantly rising infection rates. The infection and death rates are not as high as many states, but they are higher than many countries with the similar populations. South Korea is amazing with fewer total infections and deaths than the US has in one day.

Why can\'t we learn from those who are making it work???

\"We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the
fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas,\"
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told CNN\'s Jake Tapper on \"State
of the Union.\"

From the \"Things everyone knows\"-department. By \"we get\" in this
context he likely means White House staff, I suppose.

\"What we need to do is make sure that we have the proper mitigation
factors, whether it\'s therapies or vaccines or treatments to make sure
that people don\'t die from this,\" Meadows said.

By \"people\" he means \"people who matter.\"

 

[bitrex]

On 10/24/2020 9:19 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 7:30:26 AM UTC+11, Ricketty C wrote:
On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:50:13 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

snip

MD and VA are presently not in the group of states with significantly rising infection rates. The infection and death rates are not as high as many states, but they are higher than many countries with the similar populations. South Korea is amazing with fewer total infections and deaths than the US has in one day.

Why can\'t we learn from those who are making it work???

It\'s called \"American exceptionalism\" and depends on the idea that America is unique - which it was at one point, until everybody else noticed it was doing remarkably well and copied the good bits. They also rejected some of the founding tax evaders less useful innovations - the executive presidency and the electoral college come to mind. American exceptionalists think that the grab-bag of innovations that founding tax evaders put together was some kind of complete prescription for a perfect society and pay no attention to anything that\'s done in the rest-of-the-world, which isn\'t a perfect copy of what they\'ve got, and correspondingly irrelevant.

It\'s the worst kind of magical thinking, but remarkably popular in America. James Arthur articulates it here from time to time. John Doe expresses much the same opinion rather less elegantly. They are both nuts.

\"We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the
fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas,\"
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told CNN\'s Jake Tapper on \"State
of the Union.\"

From the \"Things everyone knows\"-department. By \"we get\" in this
context he likely means White House staff, I suppose.

\"What we need to do is make sure that we have the proper mitigation
factors, whether it\'s therapies or vaccines or treatments to make sure
that people don\'t die from this,\" Meadows said.

By \"people\" he means \"people who matter.\"


Yes, they engage in magical thinking a lot, they fully believe that so
long as the right people (themselves) are able to stay in power to
continue making none of the right decisions, the overall consequences
will still be better than if someone other than them had made some of
the right ones.

The old joke used to be \"You can always count on an American to do the
right thing after all other options are exhausted\" and they\'re out to
prove that old saw wrong, you can always just start recycling exhausted
options.

 

[Michael Terrell]

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

\"We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the
fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas,\"
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told CNN\'s Jake Tapper on \"State
of the Union.\"

From the \"Things everyone knows\"-department. By \"we get\" in this
context he likely means White House staff, I suppose.

\"What we need to do is make sure that we have the proper mitigation
factors, whether it\'s therapies or vaccines or treatments to make sure
that people don\'t die from this,\" Meadows said.

By \"people\" he means \"people who matter.\"

Are you saying that you won\'t get any of it?

 

[John Doe]

An America-bashing non-American forever posting off-topic
garbage and almost never posting about electronics...

--
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

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Subject: Re: Fauci: Masks, Social Distancing Likely Until 2022
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On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 7:30:26 AM UTC+11, Ricketty C wrote:
On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:50:13 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.co
m wrote:

snip

MD and VA are presently not in the group of states with significantly ris
ing infection rates. The infection and death rates are not as high as many states, but they are higher than many countries with the similar populations. South Korea is amazing with fewer total infections and deaths than the US has in one day.

Why can\'t we learn from those who are making it work???

It\'s called \"American exceptionalism\" and depends on the idea that America is unique - which it was at one point, until everybody else noticed it was doing remarkably well and copied the good bits. They also rejected some of the founding tax evaders less useful innovations - the executive presidency and the electoral college come to mind. American exceptionalists think that the grab-bag of innovations that founding tax evaders put together was some kind of complete prescription for a perfect society and pay no attention to anything that\'s done in the rest-of-the-world, which isn\'t a perfect copy of what they\'ve got, and correspondingly irrelevant.

It\'s the worst kind of magical thinking, but remarkably popular in America. James Arthur articulates it here from time to time. John Doe expresses much the same opinion rather less elegantly. They are both nuts.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 10/25/2020 5:20 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:

On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

\"We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the
fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas,\"
White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told CNN\'s Jake Tapper on \"State
of the Union.\"

From the \"Things everyone knows\"-department. By \"we get\" in this
context he likely means White House staff, I suppose.

\"What we need to do is make sure that we have the proper mitigation
factors, whether it\'s therapies or vaccines or treatments to make sure
that people don\'t die from this,\" Meadows said.

By \"people\" he means \"people who matter.\"

Are you saying that you won\'t get any of it?

Ancient Chinese proverb: Man who wants to die for his country often
given job appropriate to his skillset.

 

[Bill Sloman]

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 12:56:14 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:

Bill Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
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Subject: Re: Fauci: Masks, Social Distancing Likely Until 2022
From: Bill Sloman <bill....@ieee.org
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On Sunday, October 25, 2020 at 7:30:26 AM UTC+11, Ricketty C wrote:
On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:50:13 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail..co
m wrote:

snip

MD and VA are presently not in the group of states with significantly ris
ing infection rates. The infection and death rates are not as high as many states, but they are higher than many countries with the similar populations. South Korea is amazing with fewer total infections and deaths than the US has in one day.

Why can\'t we learn from those who are making it work???

It\'s called \"American exceptionalism\" and depends on the idea that America is unique - which it was at one point, until everybody else noticed it was doing remarkably well and copied the good bits. They also rejected some of the founding tax evaders less useful innovations - the executive presidency and the electoral college come to mind. American exceptionalists think that the grab-bag of innovations that founding tax evaders put together was some kind of complete prescription for a perfect society and pay no attention to anything that\'s done in the rest-of-the-world, which isn\'t a perfect copy of what they\'ve got, and correspondingly irrelevant.

It\'s the worst kind of magical thinking, but remarkably popular in America. James Arthur articulates it here from time to time. John Doe expresses much the same opinion rather less elegantly. They are both nuts.

An America-bashing non-American forever posting off-topic garbage and almost never posting about electronics...

Unlike John Doe, who seems to think that he loves America, but constitutes a particularly repulsive display of its defects.

If he ever posted anything about electronics he might be marginally more tolerable, but he clearly doesn\'t follow on-topic threads about the subject.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Don Y]

On 10/24/2020 10:50 AM, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public
-- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead,
he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate
for an approved vaccine.\"

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced
by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing
against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.

I believe the initial criteria was a *50%* effectivity for a vaccine.
And, of course, you have to TAKE it, rely on those around you to also
take it (to address the potential ineffectiveness of your single instance),
hope that there are no adverse side effects (there always are though
hopefully not frequent enough to be an issue), hope that the virus doesn\'t
mutate in the coming year(s), etc.

And, of course, you may not be medically capable of taking the vaccine!
Thus, truly reliant on \"herd immunity\" to keep yourself safe (barring
other interventions)

The effectiveness of the mask is beyond 99.9% and it doesn\'t cost nearly as
much. People just aren\'t interested in something that doesn\'t cost a lot of
money and requires a little bit of discipline.

Our ice cream salesman goobernor (AZ) drank the trump-ade early on. And,
expressly forbid the democratic mayors of the largest metropolitan areas
in the state from enacting any tougher regulations.

\"Arizonans are responsible people and will Do The Right Thing (TmReg)!\"

Then, he watched AZ panned in the national press for how poorly it
was handling the outbreak.

\"Ooops! I sure as hell don\'t want to get tagged as responsible for this
mess -- by my lame restrictions and prohibitions against more stingent
\"local\" restrictions. So, I\'ll let the mayors enact their own safeguards
(yet will avoid taking the \"blame\" from the denialists for imposing anything
statewide).\"

Our infection/mortality rate dropped with the introduction of masks,
social distancing, limited occupancy constraints, etc. While masks
are mandated in most establishments, there\'s very little done to
ensure the quality and effectiveness of the masks (folks not covering
their noses, masks that don\'t seal against the face well and let air
leak out the top/sides, folks still using bandanas, folks using VENTED
N95 masks -- medical facilities won\'t allow you inside wearing one! D\'uh!)

Then, school came along. And all of the colleges took the same attitude
as the goobernor \"Our students are responsible adults and will Do The
Right Thing\" (yeah, like none of them would EVER consider underage
drinking, skipping class, unprotected sex, DUI, etc. Un-huh!).

And, folks started rationalizing that they could gather in small
groups (backyards) cuz it\'s just like eating outdoors! No need
to wear a mask -- just sit 6 feet apart!

(No one has explained to these folks that it\'s an integration effect;
more time means more transferred virus, regardless of how effective
the distance/masking appear to be! Spending 4 hours in your backyard,
unmasked, with guests, is probably just as bad as spending many minutes
face-to-face with those same folks!)

And, folks decided that a lexan face shield was just so much BETTER than
a cloth mask! (who told them this?)

So, the numbers are headed in the wrong direction, again.

I guess I feel sorry for these people, to some extent. (most are
not suffering financially... retirees, etc.) But, it\'s amusing to see
how the same folks who were glued to their cell phones despite the
presence of warm bodies immediately nearby are now, suddenly, CRAVING
personal contact!

I wonder how they would have fared in England during The Blitz?
(\"I can\'t stand living in a darkened house with the shades drawn!
I\'m going to turn on all the lights and exercise my FREEDOM!!\")

OTOH, I only wear a mask when in stores -- and that\'s very infrequent
(even before the pandemic). I can\'t imagine what it would be like
to WORK in those stores and be wearing one all day long!

We\'re now speculating as to whether our normal influx of Winter Visitors
will manifest, this year. Or, will they decide they can be \"locked in\"
back home just as easily as they can, here? (esp as most of the \"free
entertainment\" that they rely on to occupy their time is no longer
available. and, many restaurants have either closed or severely
restricted seating -- even though we can dine outdoors throughout the
winter months).

I wonder how \"getting sick\" thousands of miles from \"home\" will figure
into their calculus??

 

[bitrex]

On 10/26/2020 2:01 AM, Don Y wrote:

I guess I feel sorry for these people, to some extent.  (most are
not suffering financially... retirees, etc.)  But, it\'s amusing to see
how the same folks who were glued to their cell phones despite the
presence of warm bodies immediately nearby are now, suddenly, CRAVING
personal contact!

I wonder how they would have fared in England during The Blitz?
(\"I can\'t stand living in a darkened house with the shades drawn!
I\'m going to turn on all the lights and exercise my FREEDOM!!\")

More like Dachau 1944 but in this alternate history the Germans line
themselves up to go to their own death camp. I\'ve heard it said that
history repeats twice, once as tragedy and the second, if not comedy at
least the ironic version.

 

[Don Y]

On 10/26/2020 12:17 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 10/26/2020 2:01 AM, Don Y wrote:

I guess I feel sorry for these people, to some extent. (most are
not suffering financially... retirees, etc.) But, it\'s amusing to see
how the same folks who were glued to their cell phones despite the
presence of warm bodies immediately nearby are now, suddenly, CRAVING
personal contact!

I wonder how they would have fared in England during The Blitz?
(\"I can\'t stand living in a darkened house with the shades drawn!
I\'m going to turn on all the lights and exercise my FREEDOM!!\")

More like Dachau 1944 but in this alternate history the Germans line themselves
up to go to their own death camp. I\'ve heard it said that history repeats
twice, once as tragedy and the second, if not comedy at least the ironic version.

I just don\'t see how folks can have such low tolerances for \"inconvenience\".

I\'m thinking of the people that I *personally* know who deal with \"issues\"
everyday of their (prepandemic) lives -- missing limbs, TBI, chronic pain,
\"disabilities\" (blindness, deafness, tremor), death of child, etc. and
somehow manage to persevere for year after year WITH NO REASONABLE END IN
SIGHT!

But, some pansy who can\'t/won\'t \"suffer\" with the INCONVENIENCES of the
pandemic just seems like he/she are in for a really bad time, later in life,
when things usually don\'t go so well. And, there\'s nothing they can do
to affect any change in their \"lot\"!

(poetic justice will have those around him/her \"not carrying\" about
his/her particular issues! :> )

Gotta wonder how many pets that found homes sating the needs of lonely
hosts will find themselves neglected when \"mommy/daddy\" can return to their
\"normal\" activities. (sigh)

 

[bitrex]

On 10/26/2020 4:29 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 10/26/2020 12:17 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/26/2020 2:01 AM, Don Y wrote:

I guess I feel sorry for these people, to some extent.  (most are
not suffering financially... retirees, etc.)  But, it\'s amusing to see
how the same folks who were glued to their cell phones despite the
presence of warm bodies immediately nearby are now, suddenly, CRAVING
personal contact!

I wonder how they would have fared in England during The Blitz?
(\"I can\'t stand living in a darkened house with the shades drawn!
I\'m going to turn on all the lights and exercise my FREEDOM!!\")

More like Dachau 1944 but in this alternate history the Germans line
themselves up to go to their own death camp. I\'ve heard it said that
history repeats twice, once as tragedy and the second, if not comedy
at least the ironic version.

I just don\'t see how folks can have such low tolerances for
\"inconvenience\".

I\'m thinking of the people that I *personally* know who deal with \"issues\"
everyday of their (prepandemic) lives -- missing limbs, TBI, chronic pain,
\"disabilities\" (blindness, deafness, tremor), death of child, etc. and
somehow manage to persevere for year after year WITH NO REASONABLE END IN
SIGHT!

Oh I know something about that. I\'m still quite happy here in the land
of the living most days regardless and I\'d prefer to keep it that way.

But, some pansy who can\'t/won\'t \"suffer\" with the INCONVENIENCES of the
pandemic just seems like he/she are in for a really bad time, later in
life,
when things usually don\'t go so well.  And, there\'s nothing they can do
to affect any change in their \"lot\"!

(poetic justice will have those around him/her \"not carrying\" about
his/her particular issues!  :> )

Gotta wonder how many pets that found homes sating the needs of lonely
hosts will find themselves neglected when \"mommy/daddy\" can return to their
\"normal\" activities.  (sigh)

Squabbling over masks is scrounging for freedom-pennies when a lot of
the freedom C-notes were happily tossed in the bin in years prior.

Makes the assumption that what the great multitude of men really want is
real freedom, too. I mean the real thing. I had my first taste of it in
my early 30s when I ended up surviving an illness I wasn\'t supposed to
survive. I had lost a lot of what I had before, but I did get a second
chance. Second chance was about all I had too, stuff like that...well
it\'s often not like the movies. There aren\'t flowers or parades. All
anyone knows for sure is that they don\'t really have good answers for
you about what to do next, but they wouldn\'t presume to tell you what to
do next, either.

Real freedom means you have to come up with a lot of it on your own. All
in all it\'s a mixed bag to be honest, it gives and it takes.

 

[Don Y]

On 10/26/2020 10:55 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 10/26/2020 4:29 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/26/2020 12:17 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/26/2020 2:01 AM, Don Y wrote:

I guess I feel sorry for these people, to some extent. (most are
not suffering financially... retirees, etc.) But, it\'s amusing to see
how the same folks who were glued to their cell phones despite the
presence of warm bodies immediately nearby are now, suddenly, CRAVING
personal contact!

I wonder how they would have fared in England during The Blitz?
(\"I can\'t stand living in a darkened house with the shades drawn!
I\'m going to turn on all the lights and exercise my FREEDOM!!\")

More like Dachau 1944 but in this alternate history the Germans line
themselves up to go to their own death camp. I\'ve heard it said that history
repeats twice, once as tragedy and the second, if not comedy at least the
ironic version.

I just don\'t see how folks can have such low tolerances for \"inconvenience\".

I\'m thinking of the people that I *personally* know who deal with \"issues\"
everyday of their (prepandemic) lives -- missing limbs, TBI, chronic pain,
\"disabilities\" (blindness, deafness, tremor), death of child, etc. and
somehow manage to persevere for year after year WITH NO REASONABLE END IN
SIGHT!

Oh I know something about that. I\'m still quite happy here in the land of the
living most days regardless and I\'d prefer to keep it that way.

Sorry to hear what that implies...

But, some pansy who can\'t/won\'t \"suffer\" with the INCONVENIENCES of the
pandemic just seems like he/she are in for a really bad time, later in life,
when things usually don\'t go so well. And, there\'s nothing they can do
to affect any change in their \"lot\"!

(poetic justice will have those around him/her \"not carrying\" about
his/her particular issues! :> )

Gotta wonder how many pets that found homes sating the needs of lonely
hosts will find themselves neglected when \"mommy/daddy\" can return to their
\"normal\" activities. (sigh)

Squabbling over masks is scrounging for freedom-pennies when a lot of the
freedom C-notes were happily tossed in the bin in years prior.

Yup. Amusing that they don\'t make similar claims to exercise their
\"freedom\" by smoking in nonsmoking areas, parking in handicapped spots,
cut in line (wherever), etc. They\'re only willing to \"fight\" for their
freedom when there is no direct COST to them to do so (e.g., a ticket
for parking violation, getting fired for regularly coming into work late,
etc.)

Yup. \"Real Men\"!

Makes the assumption that what the great multitude of men really want is real
freedom, too. I mean the real thing. I had my first taste of it in my early 30s
when I ended up surviving an illness I wasn\'t supposed to survive. I had lost a
lot of what I had before, but I did get a second chance. Second chance was
about all I had too, stuff like that...well it\'s often not like the movies.
There aren\'t flowers or parades. All anyone knows for sure is that they don\'t
really have good answers for you about what to do next, but they wouldn\'t
presume to tell you what to do next, either.

Real freedom means you have to come up with a lot of it on your own. All in all
it\'s a mixed bag to be honest, it gives and it takes.

Exactly. All those Real Men who knuckle under when their boss complains
that they were late for a meeting or coming back from lunch or delivering
a product on schedule... instead of setting out ON THEIR OWN (and taking
responsibility for their own success OR FAILURE into their own hands).

I had a prospective employer, when I was young, describe their dress code
to me... \"informally\" -- but making it obvious that there IS a dress code.
When I turned down their job offer (from Personnel), he contacted me
afterwards to see if there was something he could do to get me to
change my mind -- more money, vacation, different job assignment, etc.
He was flabbergasted when I told him I wasn\'t keen on them telling me
how I had to DRESS in order to PROVIDE MY SERVICES to them. Ooops!

Obviously, how I dress (or DON\'T dress) is a \"freedom\" that I value.
Forcing me into a necktie TO DO ENGINEERING is just vanity/control on
the part of the employer -- who the hell is going to SEE me besides
other employees?

[For the past 3 years, I\'ve worn \"the same\" T-shirt EVERY day. Actually,
it\'s not the same INSTANCE of a T-shirt but the same APPEARANCE of that
T-shirt! A friend gave me 22 identical T-shirts as a sort of gag.
So, I pulled 7 out of the pile and wear a different (identical!) one
each day. Then, launder them all on the weekend for use in the week
that follows. After a year or two, I discard all seven and pull another
seven out of the pile. I never have to think about \"what shirt should
I wear\" -- some *trivial* thing that has value, to me!]

OTOH, when I had jobs that required me to represent The Company to The
Public (or to our customer base), I\'d dress to the nines -- a DIFFERENT
tailored three-piece suit each day, tie, gold watchchain, plumb bob,
hair coiffed, clean shaven, \"dress\" shoes polished (no sneakers or cowboy
boots), etc. All this despite the expectation being a simple sports
jacket and dress pants/shirt (no necktie)

[Employers would wonder who customers were referencing when they spoke
of \"that nice young man\" -- as I was always in my grubs around the office!]

 

[bitrex]

On 10/26/2020 3:05 PM, Don Y wrote:

Squabbling over masks is scrounging for freedom-pennies when a lot of
the freedom C-notes were happily tossed in the bin in years prior.

Yup.  Amusing that they don\'t make similar claims to exercise their
\"freedom\" by smoking in nonsmoking areas, parking in handicapped spots,
cut in line (wherever), etc.  They\'re only willing to \"fight\" for their
freedom when there is no direct COST to them to do so (e.g., a ticket
for parking violation, getting fired for regularly coming into work late,
etc.)

Yup.  \"Real Men\"!

Well, there are different standards of masculinity.

Woe to anyone who goes to Japan and believes that just because some men
there tend to be soft-spoken that this implies anyone is a push-over.
rather often it\'s inversely proportional.

I dunno I kinda miss the days when a man\'s manning was in large part
evaluated on how many women he slept with and/or whether both parties
involved enjoyed the experience. Call me old-fashioned.

 

[bitrex]

On 10/26/2020 3:49 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 10/26/2020 3:05 PM, Don Y wrote:

Squabbling over masks is scrounging for freedom-pennies when a lot of
the freedom C-notes were happily tossed in the bin in years prior.

Yup.  Amusing that they don\'t make similar claims to exercise their
\"freedom\" by smoking in nonsmoking areas, parking in handicapped spots,
cut in line (wherever), etc.  They\'re only willing to \"fight\" for their
freedom when there is no direct COST to them to do so (e.g., a ticket
for parking violation, getting fired for regularly coming into work late,
etc.)

Yup.  \"Real Men\"!

Well, there are different standards of masculinity.

Woe to anyone who goes to Japan and believes that just because some men
there tend to be soft-spoken that this implies anyone is a push-over.
rather often it\'s inversely proportional.

I dunno I kinda miss the days when a man\'s manning was in large part
evaluated on how many women he slept with and/or whether both parties
involved enjoyed the experience. Call me old-fashioned.

For straight men, at least. Gay men I suppose have their own standards
of which I\'m unfamiliar myself but I have no interest in policing
anyone\'s activities in that respect.

Policing what Americans do in the privacy of their own bedrooms sounds
like a dreadful job, matter of fact, I\'m frankly a bit skeptical of
anyone who says they genuinely want to take that one on.

 

[Don Y]

On 10/26/2020 1:15 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 2:01:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 10/24/2020 10:50 AM, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public
-- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead,
he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate
for an approved vaccine.\"

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced
by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing
against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.
I believe the initial criteria was a *50%* effectivity for a vaccine.

They\'ll go lower than that in practice. The way things are now with a projected half million deaths by February, they\'ll do 15%.


Official C19 US deaths are running about 800 per day now and mostly
flat, down from the April peak of 2200. The death rate would have to
spike radically to hit half a million by mid-Feb.

You mean like the 500% increase we saw in AZ from June 20th to July 20th?
Note that was JUNE, not the 1800% increase we saw nationally from Mar 20
to Apr 20 (when, you can argue, folks didn\'t \"know better\").

\"Arizonans are responsible people and will Do The Right Thing (TmReg)!\"

Then, he watched AZ panned in the national press for how poorly it
was handling the outbreak.

Sorry state of affairs in U.S.

The US is #10 in per-capita deaths. Mexico is creeping up on us.

Mexico doesn\'t *claim* to have The World\'s Best Healthcare! And, living
conditions, in general, in MX are a fair bit worse than in the US.

Belguim is having a huge second case spike, approaching 10x the first,
April, one. And it\'s still curving up. And it seems somewhat deadly.

Netherlands is similar. France too. The US is not uniquely stupid or
anything.

So, you\'re using \"other people are stupid, too\" as a defense for YOUR
stupidity? Are you a 3rd grader who claims \"Tommy\'s Mom let\'s HIM stay
up late...\"?

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:34:31 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/26/2020 1:15 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 2:01:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 10/24/2020 10:50 AM, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public
-- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead,
he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate
for an approved vaccine.\"

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced
by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing
against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.
I believe the initial criteria was a *50%* effectivity for a vaccine.

They\'ll go lower than that in practice. The way things are now with a projected half million deaths by February, they\'ll do 15%.


Official C19 US deaths are running about 800 per day now and mostly
flat, down from the April peak of 2200. The death rate would have to
spike radically to hit half a million by mid-Feb.

You mean like the 500% increase we saw in AZ from June 20th to July 20th?
Note that was JUNE, not the 1800% increase we saw nationally from Mar 20
to Apr 20 (when, you can argue, folks didn\'t \"know better\").

Every place that gets hit by this virus starts with exponential
growth. You can pick a start point and compute 18,000 per cent if you
want.

Most every place peaks and declines too. This virus has a fairly
repeatable life cycle.

New York had a gigantic, and very deadly, peak in April. Arizona
peaked about two months later.

The first peak, actually the rising edge of the first peak, seems to
be the deadly one.

\"Arizonans are responsible people and will Do The Right Thing (TmReg)!\"

Then, he watched AZ panned in the national press for how poorly it
was handling the outbreak.

Sorry state of affairs in U.S.

The US is #10 in per-capita deaths. Mexico is creeping up on us.

Mexico doesn\'t *claim* to have The World\'s Best Healthcare! And, living
conditions, in general, in MX are a fair bit worse than in the US.

Belguim is having a huge second case spike, approaching 10x the first,
April, one. And it\'s still curving up. And it seems somewhat deadly.

Netherlands is similar. France too. The US is not uniquely stupid or
anything.

So, you\'re using \"other people are stupid, too\" as a defense for YOUR
stupidity? Are you a 3rd grader who claims \"Tommy\'s Mom let\'s HIM stay
up late...\"?

Maybe it isn\'t a matter of stupidity at all. We might discuss what
could actually be happening, if you were willing to stop shreiking and
think some. Seems unlikely.

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:06:11 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:34:31 -0700, Don Y
blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 10/26/2020 1:15 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 2:01:27 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 10/24/2020 10:50 AM, bloggs.fred...@gmail.com wrote:
\"Coronavirus vaccines -- once approved and distributed widely to the public
-- won’t be a “knockout punch” that eradicates the virus, he said. Instead,
he expects the process to take time and anticipates a 70% effectiveness rate
for an approved vaccine.\"

I wonder if the 70% effectiveness anticipated for the vaccine is influenced
by all the money that\'s been spent on them. The history of immunizing
against lower respiratory track infections is just not that good.
I believe the initial criteria was a *50%* effectivity for a vaccine.

They\'ll go lower than that in practice. The way things are now with a projected half million deaths by February, they\'ll do 15%.


Official C19 US deaths are running about 800 per day now and mostly
flat, down from the April peak of 2200. The death rate would have to
spike radically to hit half a million by mid-Feb.

You mean like the 500% increase we saw in AZ from June 20th to July 20th?
Note that was JUNE, not the 1800% increase we saw nationally from Mar 20
to Apr 20 (when, you can argue, folks didn\'t \"know better\").

Every place that gets hit by this virus starts with exponential
growth. You can pick a start point and compute 18,000 per cent if you
want.

Most every place peaks and declines too. This virus has a fairly
repeatable life cycle.

New York had a gigantic, and very deadly, peak in April. Arizona
peaked about two months later.

The first peak, actually the rising edge of the first peak, seems to
be the deadly one.




\"Arizonans are responsible people and will Do The Right Thing (TmReg)!\"

Then, he watched AZ panned in the national press for how poorly it
was handling the outbreak.

Sorry state of affairs in U.S.

The US is #10 in per-capita deaths. Mexico is creeping up on us.

Mexico doesn\'t *claim* to have The World\'s Best Healthcare! And, living
conditions, in general, in MX are a fair bit worse than in the US.

Belguim is having a huge second case spike, approaching 10x the first,
April, one. And it\'s still curving up. And it seems somewhat deadly.

Netherlands is similar. France too. The US is not uniquely stupid or
anything.

So, you\'re using \"other people are stupid, too\" as a defense for YOUR
stupidity? Are you a 3rd grader who claims \"Tommy\'s Mom let\'s HIM stay
up late...\"?

Maybe it isn\'t a matter of stupidity at all. We might discuss what
could actually be happening, if you were willing to stop shreiking and
think some. Seems unlikely.

Oops, my mistake. You were already on my ignore-this-guy list.

 

[Steve Wilson]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

> Oops, my mistake. You were already on my ignore-this-guy list.

Try xnews. It has a plonk file

https://xnews.en.softonic.com/

Setup and config info on the web.


--
Science teaches us to trust. - sw