fastest CPU in DIP format?

Y

Yef

Guest
Hi all,

I'm looking for an over-the-counter microprocessor
to run Linux on. However I want to be able to construct
the circuitry myself, so I will need a CPU that is
in a package that mere mortals can work with. My assumption
is that that would be a dual-inline package since that's
what I've used in the past. But when I look at the Jameco
and JDR catalogs I see just slow 8-bit CPUs. Can anyone
point me to something more interesting, such as an
system on a DIP chip type of thing?

Thanks.
 
Yef wrote:

I'm looking for an over-the-counter microprocessor
to run Linux on. However I want to be able to construct
the circuitry myself, so I will need a CPU that is
in a package that mere mortals can work with. My assumption
is that that would be a dual-inline package since that's
what I've used in the past. But when I look at the Jameco
and JDR catalogs I see just slow 8-bit CPUs. Can anyone
point me to something more interesting, such as an
system on a DIP chip type of thing?
Click to expand...
Use a surface mount to through-hole adapter. You can buy one premade
See http://www.accutekmicro.com/press_details.cfm?Press_ID=18 or
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=016246TQmY0589
but if you design your own you can have the board house install the
micro and some surface mount bypass caps, and maybe a xtal or a
buffer chip.
 
Chris Carlen wrote:

CPUs capable of running Linux will almost certainly all be QFPs or
worse. Actually QFPs are not so bad, and you can indeed solder them
by
hand. Oddly enough, even with a rather blunt tip iron suitable for
typical "medium duty" soldering (like a 1/16" wide chisel tip).
So don't be put off by packages! I used to dread SMT, but now it's
nothing.
Click to expand...

Actually I should have added something but I forgot:

I need this thing to be very rugged. The device will get
banged up quite a bit and I'm a little concerned that
these new 4-layer or whatever PC boards can't take shocks.

That's the other reason why I was hoping for a DIP package
since their pins are thick.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks.
 
In article <cvd9dd025du@news4.newsguy.com>,
Chris Carlen <crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote:
[....]
CPUs capable of running Linux will almost certainly all be QFPs or
worse. Actually QFPs are not so bad, and you can indeed solder them by
hand. Oddly enough, even with a rather blunt tip iron suitable for
typical "medium duty" soldering (like a 1/16" wide chisel tip).
Click to expand...
Just for that, I should port Linux to an 8051. :>

You can also get the solder paste and heat gun type soldering stations for
prices mere mortals can handle if you look for used stuff.

A dental pick made out of materal that solder hates like 316 stainless is
a handy tool to have. You use it to break the surface tension on solder
bridges.


--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
Yef wrote:

I need this thing to be very rugged. The device will get
banged up quite a bit and I'm a little concerned that
these new 4-layer or whatever PC boards can't take shocks.

That's the other reason why I was hoping for a DIP package
since their pins are thick.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I hope that you won't take this the wrong way, but my thoughts
are that you need to learn a lot more about designing rugged
electronics. Your belief that 4 layer boards and SMT parts
can't take shock/vibration is unfounded.
 
In article <1109020303.142151.127260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Yef <e97y@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
I need this thing to be very rugged. The device will get
banged up quite a bit and I'm a little concerned that
these new 4-layer or whatever PC boards can't take shocks.

That's the other reason why I was hoping for a DIP package
since their pins are thick.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Ease of damage from bumping about:

Worst:
Lead acid batteries (the second ones you buy)
Cheap (sheet metal pin) sockets
Mechanical switches that are hard mounted to the case
Relays
Cheap connectors
More expensive connectors
Large value ceramic capacitors
Improperly installed radial leaded parts.
Trim pots of any kind.
Good quality PLCC sockets
Machined pin sockets.
SMT ICs of nearly any type
:Best

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:15:27 -0800, Yef wrote:

Hi all,

I'm looking for an over-the-counter microprocessor
to run Linux on. However I want to be able to construct
the circuitry myself, so I will need a CPU that is
in a package that mere mortals can work with. My assumption
is that that would be a dual-inline package since that's
what I've used in the past. But when I look at the Jameco
and JDR catalogs I see just slow 8-bit CPUs. Can anyone
point me to something more interesting, such as an
system on a DIP chip type of thing?

80186.
Click to expand...

Cheers!
Rich
 
Rich Grise wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:15:27 -0800, Yef wrote:

Hi all,

I'm looking for an over-the-counter microprocessor
to run Linux on. However I want to be able to construct
the circuitry myself, so I will need a CPU that is
in a package that mere mortals can work with. My assumption
is that that would be a dual-inline package since that's
what I've used in the past. But when I look at the Jameco
and JDR catalogs I see just slow 8-bit CPUs. Can anyone
point me to something more interesting, such as an
system on a DIP chip type of thing?

80186.

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
I was waiting for someone to say that !

Wasn't the 80286 in DIP too ? Bah - I've only got Volume II of Intel
Microprocessors 1991 manual ! I need Volume I to tell.

Graham
 
In article <421A9860.50CCF0A4@hotmail.com>,
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Seriously, ( to the OP ) the low mass of SMD devices makes them highly
resistant to shock effects.
Click to expand...
The only main exception are the large valued ceramic capacitors. These
crack easily if the PCB has a flexure shock running down it.

It is quite easy to filter out the really high frequency stuff that would
be trouble to the smaller parts. Things like the on-off switch can be the
biggest problem because they normally are hard mounted to the case. I
think the best way to deal with this is to move the device back from the
panel and use a rubber coupling.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:421A9860.50CCF0A4@hotmail.com:

Guy Macon wrote:

Yef wrote:

I need this thing to be very rugged. The device will get
banged up quite a bit and I'm a little concerned that
these new 4-layer or whatever PC boards can't take shocks.

That's the other reason why I was hoping for a DIP package
since their pins are thick.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I hope that you won't take this the wrong way, but my thoughts
are that you need to learn a lot more about designing rugged
electronics. Your belief that 4 layer boards and SMT parts
can't take shock/vibration is unfounded.

Maybe he's a mech eng ? They like big stuff !
Click to expand...
Then what about the MC68000 - bloody huge dip (slow as a wet Wednesday)
Dunno if you can still get them, but they made nice little tiles when I
had to make a pad for a woodburner lounge heater.
M
 
Ken Smith wrote:

The only main exception are the large valued ceramic capacitors. These
crack easily if the PCB has a flexure shock running down it.

It is quite easy to filter out the really high frequency stuff that would
be trouble to the smaller parts. Things like the on-off switch can be the
biggest problem because they normally are hard mounted to the case. I
think the best way to deal with this is to move the device back from the
panel and use a rubber coupling.
Click to expand...
I have had a lot of trouble with the crystals on otherwise shock
resistant designs. The crystal tends to hit the inside of the
case and crack. I had good results when I started using high-shock
crystals from Statek.

BTW, it has been my experience that high-quality machined pin DIP
sockets do *not* allow the chip to walk out under vibration.

--
Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
 
In article <111nb2rhp1mcm90@corp.supernews.com>,
Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
[...]
I have had a lot of trouble with the crystals on otherwise shock
resistant designs. The crystal tends to hit the inside of the
case and crack. I had good results when I started using high-shock
crystals from Statek.
Click to expand...
In one design (not mine) we used a little foam pillow and flexy wires to
shock mount the crystal. We also shock mounted the transformer too but
that was more a microphonics issue than a breakage one.


BTW, it has been my experience that high-quality machined pin DIP
sockets do *not* allow the chip to walk out under vibration.
Click to expand...
I think the good ones actually ratchet the chip in. It always seems to
require more force the get a chip out than to put it in.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
In article <111n218kdu9fk94@corp.supernews.com>,
Aubrey McIntosh <spam@spam04.vima.austin.tx.us> wrote:
[...]
I have been thinking that the PIC 18F line has a lot of oompf. I
haven't put it to pencil, but I have wondered if it has a much power as
the original IBM PC (pre-XT, their first pc machine.)
Click to expand...
I suspect that the PIC has more oomf that the old PCs based on the 8086.
The 8086 could do 16 bit math and all but it took something like 21 clock
cycles to do a conditional jump and every memory access took a trip
through the ALU. The PC could easily be out performed by an Apple-II.


--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
If you just do a little homework you will find even the military is
using surface mount packages.
Click to expand...
Cough. Funny how advice can boomerang. It is aerospace/military who
_started_ surface mount in the 50's. First there was surface mount,
then there was DIP.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
To reply, remove spaces: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
 
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
Yup. I remember making some interesting things with RTL ceramic flat
packs from Polypaks (sp?).

Spehro Pefhany
Click to expand...
914s and 923s marked NASA?

BTW, it was Poly Paks, two words. Junk, garbage, over runs and
oddball parts the average tech could never find anywhere else! Ah, the
good old days. :)

--
Beware of those who suffer from delusions of adequacy!

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:39:42 GMT, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Yup. I remember making some interesting things with RTL ceramic flat
packs from Polypaks (sp?).

Spehro Pefhany

914s and 923s marked NASA?
Click to expand...
I don't recall NASA markings, but the numbers sound familiar. Gates
and JK FFs, I think.

I don't think I ever saw any of the molded ones:

http://www.wps.com/archives/solid-state-datasheets/Datasheets/Fairchild-uL923/1.JPG

If this DTL page is representative, the flat packs had 50 mil pitch. I
glued them onto cardboard and used magnet wire to hook them up.

http://www.wps.com/archives/solid-state-datasheets/Datasheets/Fairchild-DTuL-930-963/1.JPG

BTW, it was Poly Paks, two words. Junk, garbage, over runs and
oddball parts the average tech could never find anywhere else! Ah, the
good old days. :)
Click to expand...
Yup. A better class of garbage than what Radio Shack sold.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:421D2248.4AA08893@earthlink.net...

BTW, it was Poly Paks, two words. Junk, garbage, over runs and
oddball parts the average tech could never find anywhere else! Ah, the
good old days. :)

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Click to expand...
I know this place, they used to sell terribly popular CB radio PCB boards,
way back when I was a kid. The boards were somewhat crappy, but amazingly
cheap.

S
 
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:39:42 GMT, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Yup. I remember making some interesting things with RTL ceramic flat
packs from Polypaks (sp?).

Spehro Pefhany

914s and 923s marked NASA?

I don't recall NASA markings, but the numbers sound familiar. Gates
and JK FFs, I think.

I don't think I ever saw any of the molded ones:

http://www.wps.com/archives/solid-state-datasheets/Datasheets/Fairchild-uL923/1.JPG

If this DTL page is representative, the flat packs had 50 mil pitch. I
glued them onto cardboard and used magnet wire to hook them up.

http://www.wps.com/archives/solid-state-datasheets/Datasheets/Fairchild-DTuL-930-963/1.JPG


BTW, it was Poly Paks, two words. Junk, garbage, over runs and
oddball parts the average tech could never find anywhere else! Ah, the
good old days. :)

Yup. A better class of garbage than what Radio Shack sold.
Click to expand...
I amy still have a couple with the NASA markings. If I can find them
I will take close up photos and post them on ABSE in a few days.
--
Beware of those who suffer from delusions of adequacy!

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote (in <421D3D20.7667F648@earthlink.net>
) about 'fastest CPU in DIP format?', on Thu, 24 Feb 2005:

J.I.T. and high taxes are killing the electronic surplus market. :(
Click to expand...
We still have at least three sources in UK similar to the Poly Pak you
describe.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
Guy Macon wrote:

Yef wrote:

I need this thing to be very rugged. The device will get
banged up quite a bit and I'm a little concerned that
these new 4-layer or whatever PC boards can't take shocks.

That's the other reason why I was hoping for a DIP package
since their pins are thick.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I hope that you won't take this the wrong way, but my thoughts
are that you need to learn a lot more about designing rugged
electronics. Your belief that 4 layer boards and SMT parts
can't take shock/vibration is unfounded.
Click to expand...
Maybe he's a mech eng ? They like big stuff !

Seriously, ( to the OP ) the low mass of SMD devices makes them highly
resistant to shock effects.

One area where you might need to be concerned is in critical ( typically
precision DC amplifer ) applications where any board stress can affect
SMD resistor values. In this respect leaded parts are bettter since the
lead acts as a strain relief.

Graham
 
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