extrusions

J

John Larkin

Guest
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 1:37:05 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?
Hah, what's a reasonable price? In the distant past we ordered a ton of
extursions from here,
https://cardinalaluminum.com/

I think ordering a ton was the only way to keep the price down.
We've got a life time supply... I have no idea if their quality is still
good.

They also did some machining and anodizing on the part.

George H.
--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On Thu, 9 May 2019 11:29:19 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 1:37:05 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?

Hah, what's a reasonable price? In the distant past we ordered a ton of
extursions from here,
https://cardinalaluminum.com/

I think ordering a ton was the only way to keep the price down.
We've got a life time supply... I have no idea if their quality is still
good.

They also did some machining and anodizing on the part.

George H.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

We'll try them. We want to cut/machine/anodize too.

Thanks

John


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Try Tendon Manufacturing in Cleveland if that is viable for you. Get ahold of Jim Moderelli and tell him Jeff sent you. He is not necessarily in sales, he is like an all around guy for them. Probably does expediting and whatever because he does go on the road and he does have skills. So that is a reasonable assumption.

https://www.tendon.com/

On their homepage of the graphics, at the top right, or third on because who knows your screen resolution, they give the info.

Actually, if you only need a few pieces and they aren't all that hard I might be able to get them out of there under the table. they do let him do that from time to time. Then all we have to pay is him.

I also got a guy very adept with Rhinoceros and Solidworks. He can probably bust out code faster than almost anyone on those. You probably don't need him though, you probably have the drawings, but if they want any significant extra charges find out why and I can tell him the problem.

It's like - how many pieces are we talking here and what do they look like ? he can do jet engine impellers or coffee pots, where does this stand in that spectrum ?
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 3:20:15 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2019 11:29:19 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 1:37:05 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?

Hah, what's a reasonable price? In the distant past we ordered a ton of
extursions from here,
https://cardinalaluminum.com/

I think ordering a ton was the only way to keep the price down.
We've got a life time supply... I have no idea if their quality is still
good.

They also did some machining and anodizing on the part.

George H.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

We'll try them. We want to cut/machine/anodize too.

Thanks

John
OK.. They made the channel for our Two slit.
3-4" wide and ~3-4' feet long. The long black thing here.
https://www.teachspin.com/two-slit

George H.
--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
whit3rd wrote...
On Thursday, May 9, 2019, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source
for small custom aluminum extrusions?


Probably, for 'custom' designs you have to go to a real
extruder plant that makes dies, and commit to a few ten-
meter lengths. Ryerson, MInalex look like good prospects.

Right, do a bang-up job creating a universal extrusion for
your needs, order a lifetime supply of long pieces, get a
local ship to cut, machine and anodize specific versions.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 10:37:05 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?

Everything but 'small' you get from aluminum manufacturers.

The aluminum extrusion process squeezes out a limp strand, then stretches
it straight, and typically that means ten meters or more is the minimum size.
It's kind important (economics, you know) to sell the whole length,
and the 'aftermarket' folk that cut and debur sections from that
length are the ones that have inventory of multiple patterns, and anodization in colors, etc.
The aftermarket delivers 'standard' items from stock, and their distributors charge high prices.

Probably, for 'custom' designs you have to go to a real extruder plant that makes dies,
and commit to a few ten-meter lengths. Ryerson, MInalex look like good prospects.
 
On Thu, 9 May 2019 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Try Tendon Manufacturing in Cleveland if that is viable for you. Get ahold of Jim Moderelli and tell him Jeff sent you. He is not necessarily in sales, he is like an all around guy for them. Probably does expediting and whatever because he does go on the road and he does have skills. So that is a reasonable assumption.

https://www.tendon.com/

On their homepage of the graphics, at the top right, or third on because who knows your screen resolution, they give the info.

Actually, if you only need a few pieces and they aren't all that hard I might be able to get them out of there under the table. they do let him do that from time to time. Then all we have to pay is him.

I also got a guy very adept with Rhinoceros and Solidworks. He can probably bust out code faster than almost anyone on those. You probably don't need him though, you probably have the drawings, but if they want any significant extra charges find out why and I can tell him the problem.

It's like - how many pieces are we talking here and what do they look like ? he can do jet engine impellers or coffee pots, where does this stand in that spectrum ?

We're tired of buying stock extruded enclosures that are expensive and
poorly designed. It's time we did our own extrusions. We could buy a
truckload.

It would basically be the sides of something like this

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T564DS.shtml

We'd make the top/bottom/ends out of flat sheets, to make it easier to
work on.

We'll ping Jim. Thanks.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On Thursday, 9 May 2019 13:37:05 UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?

Hi, John:-

Be sure to talk to your prospective supplier before finalizing the design,
if you can avoid hollow shapes the cost will be lower and it may be easier
to control the tolerances, for example. I know you'd like to eliminate the
threading into open shapes, for example, because swarf can fall out into the
circuitry. It might make more sense to drill and tap solid ends on a CNC
machine, or even to press threaded fasteners into the aluminum.

Extrusions are relatively simple compared to things like plastic injection molded parts, but there are still complexities.

BTW, the extruder is fed with billets that represent so many pounds of aluminum alloy (maybe 500), so there's a related minimum quantity per run.


--sp
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 5:42:53 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2019 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Try Tendon Manufacturing in Cleveland if that is viable for you. Get ahold of Jim Moderelli and tell him Jeff sent you. He is not necessarily in sales, he is like an all around guy for them. Probably does expediting and whatever because he does go on the road and he does have skills. So that is a reasonable assumption.

https://www.tendon.com/

On their homepage of the graphics, at the top right, or third on because who knows your screen resolution, they give the info.

Actually, if you only need a few pieces and they aren't all that hard I might be able to get them out of there under the table. they do let him do that from time to time. Then all we have to pay is him.

I also got a guy very adept with Rhinoceros and Solidworks. He can probably bust out code faster than almost anyone on those. You probably don't need him though, you probably have the drawings, but if they want any significant extra charges find out why and I can tell him the problem.

It's like - how many pieces are we talking here and what do they look like ? he can do jet engine impellers or coffee pots, where does this stand in that spectrum ?


We're tired of buying stock extruded enclosures that are expensive and
poorly designed. It's time we did our own extrusions. We could buy a
truckload.

It would basically be the sides of something like this

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T564DS.shtml

We'd make the top/bottom/ends out of flat sheets, to make it easier to
work on.

We'll ping Jim. Thanks.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Sometime in the past I recall browsing the various extrusions
that were available...
there were hundreds/ thousands at each extrusion place!

thread bend;
I've got a dream of milling bath-tubs out of aluminum bar stock.
Five sided boxes with a top panel. Nice thick sides
that you can add connectors or heat sink tabs onto the
box. Say a 3" width, 2" depth to the tub. and you could
make various lengths. Like blue pomona boxes, but better.
(and hopefully cheaper.) With small companies you sometimes
have to buy a life time supply of something, to keep the price
down for your customers. (or because the something is going away,
and finding a replacement may not be possible.)

George H.
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 7:05:37 PM UTC-4, speff wrote:
On Thursday, 9 May 2019 13:37:05 UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?

Hi, John:-

Be sure to talk to your prospective supplier before finalizing the design,
if you can avoid hollow shapes the cost will be lower and it may be easier
to control the tolerances, for example. I know you'd like to eliminate the
threading into open shapes, for example, because swarf can fall out into the
Swarf? I've been bitten by metal shards from threading some hole
getting through my thermal pad, and shorting my hot pass element
to ground...
George H.
circuitry. It might make more sense to drill and tap solid ends on a CNC
machine, or even to press threaded fasteners into the aluminum.

Extrusions are relatively simple compared to things like plastic injection molded parts, but there are still complexities.

BTW, the extruder is fed with billets that represent so many pounds of aluminum alloy (maybe 500), so there's a related minimum quantity per run.


--sp
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 8:06:36 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 5:42:53 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2019 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Try Tendon Manufacturing in Cleveland if that is viable for you. Get ahold of Jim Moderelli and tell him Jeff sent you. He is not necessarily in sales, he is like an all around guy for them. Probably does expediting and whatever because he does go on the road and he does have skills. So that is a reasonable assumption.

https://www.tendon.com/

On their homepage of the graphics, at the top right, or third on because who knows your screen resolution, they give the info.

Actually, if you only need a few pieces and they aren't all that hard I might be able to get them out of there under the table. they do let him do that from time to time. Then all we have to pay is him.

I also got a guy very adept with Rhinoceros and Solidworks. He can probably bust out code faster than almost anyone on those. You probably don't need him though, you probably have the drawings, but if they want any significant extra charges find out why and I can tell him the problem.

It's like - how many pieces are we talking here and what do they look like ? he can do jet engine impellers or coffee pots, where does this stand in that spectrum ?


We're tired of buying stock extruded enclosures that are expensive and
poorly designed. It's time we did our own extrusions. We could buy a
truckload.

It would basically be the sides of something like this

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T564DS.shtml

We'd make the top/bottom/ends out of flat sheets, to make it easier to
work on.

We'll ping Jim. Thanks.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Sometime in the past I recall browsing the various extrusions
that were available...
there were hundreds/ thousands at each extrusion place!

thread bend;
I've got a dream of milling bath-tubs out of aluminum bar stock.
Five sided boxes with a top panel. Nice thick sides
that you can add connectors or heat sink tabs onto the
box. Say a 3" width, 2" depth to the tub. and you could
make various lengths. Like blue pomona boxes, but better.
(and hopefully cheaper.) With small companies you sometimes
have to buy a life time supply of something, to keep the price
down for your customers. (or because the something is going away,
and finding a replacement may not be possible.)

I've always wondered how people know how long they will live to buy a lifetime supply. Or in this case, how they know how long the product will live?

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On 5/9/19 1:36 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?

I haven't used them for extruded cases but Par/Pi-Metal Products in NJ
I've used for custom rackmount enclosures, IMO very good prices, fast
turnaround. They also do custom extrusions it seems.

<http://www.par-metal.com/product-ttp-80series.php>

This semi-custom shallow-depth, black anodized front and powder coated
steel 2U rackmount enclosure with handles and IEC knockout is $45(!) in
quantities of tens.

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/iq20nadlejvlkao/IMG_20190509_214736239.jpg?dl=0>
 
On 10/5/19 10:06 am, George Herold wrote:
thread bend;
I've got a dream of milling bath-tubs out of aluminum bar stock.
Five sided boxes with a top panel. Nice thick sides
that you can add connectors or heat sink tabs onto the
box. Say a 3" width, 2" depth to the tub. and you could
make various lengths. Like blue pomona boxes, but better.
(and hopefully cheaper.) With small companies you sometimes
have to buy a life time supply of something, to keep the price
down for your customers. (or because the something is going away,
and finding a replacement may not be possible.)

Apple has been milling its laptop cases from billet for almost ten years.
 
"John Larkin" wrote in message
news:n879de9jfe7m4rkbdqo79sk6bribcs83tr@4ax.com...
We're tired of buying stock extruded enclosures that are expensive and
poorly designed. It's time we did our own extrusions. We could buy a
truckload.

It would basically be the sides of something like this

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T564DS.shtml

We'd make the top/bottom/ends out of flat sheets, to make it easier to
work on.

So you are thinking of a C channel as wide as your box, with short legs to
form the sides? I'm assuming you want some ribs on the sides and maybe the
bottom for stiffness and to mount a PCB along with the end and top plates?
That width is going to make it expensive and once you commit to a custom
extrusion you are locked into that size. How about just doing the sides as
an extrusion and making the bottom out of flat sheet just like the top.
That way the width can vary if needed, both sides are the same so you only
need one extrusion, and that extrusion is much smaller and thus much
cheaper. If you need more stiffness you could have the top and bottom
plates stamped or run through a bead roller to either put beads on or to put
a joggle on the sides or ends. That wouldn't be very expensive and could be
ordered in reasonably small quantities. I'm sure a real mechanical designer
would have even better ideas for stiffness, but the key is to drastically
cut down the size of the extrusion at the cost of having to screw on the
bottom of each box.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames
 
On Thu, 9 May 2019 23:29:59 -0400, "Carl"
<carl.ijamesXYZ@ZYXverizon.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" wrote in message
news:n879de9jfe7m4rkbdqo79sk6bribcs83tr@4ax.com...

We're tired of buying stock extruded enclosures that are expensive and
poorly designed. It's time we did our own extrusions. We could buy a
truckload.

It would basically be the sides of something like this

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T564DS.shtml

We'd make the top/bottom/ends out of flat sheets, to make it easier to
work on.

So you are thinking of a C channel as wide as your box, with short legs to
form the sides? I'm assuming you want some ribs on the sides and maybe the
bottom for stiffness and to mount a PCB along with the end and top plates?
That width is going to make it expensive and once you commit to a custom
extrusion you are locked into that size. How about just doing the sides as
an extrusion and making the bottom out of flat sheet just like the top.
That way the width can vary if needed, both sides are the same so you only
need one extrusion, and that extrusion is much smaller and thus much
cheaper. If you need more stiffness you could have the top and bottom
plates stamped or run through a bead roller to either put beads on or to put
a joggle on the sides or ends. That wouldn't be very expensive and could be
ordered in reasonably small quantities. I'm sure a real mechanical designer
would have even better ideas for stiffness, but the key is to drastically
cut down the size of the extrusion at the cost of having to screw on the
bottom of each box.

Here's the old one. It's pretty horrible.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9z8uqsq3let67gs/Tbox_Extrusion_Old.JPG?dl=0

The screw locations are inconsistent and the self-tapping screws make
shavings. It's hard to tap the partial holes for real screws... it
breaks taps. You have to remove six nasty end plate screws to slide
the top cover off, and the EMI situation is messy.

This is what we're thinking about, close to what you describe:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpl3dtoapgzd9kp/Tbox_Extrusion.JPG?dl=0

All the tapped holes would be machined in solid areas, so the hole
locations would be perfect. Box height would be fixed, but length and
width could vary. Top and bottom covers would be fabbed from flat
sheet.

Smooth blue alodine finish, no doodads.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 9:09:57 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Here's the old one. It's pretty horrible.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9z8uqsq3let67gs/Tbox_Extrusion_Old.JPG?dl=0

The screw locations are inconsistent and the self-tapping screws make
shavings.

One way around that, is to ditch the 'self-tapping screws', and instead
press knurled studs into the apertures. That doesn't make any metal
shavings, the knurled insert can either be an innie (takes a machine
screw) or an outie (has a projecting stud). If you decide on a full-custom
profile, that can be a dimension to design in.

Another is the RivNut (or other captive nut designs) after punching or drilling
a sheet element, but that doesn't easily attach end plates/endcaps.
Mostly, I find threads in aluminum to be problematic.
 
On 10/5/19 2:09 pm, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2019 23:29:59 -0400, "Carl"
carl.ijamesXYZ@ZYXverizon.net> wrote:
So you are thinking of a C channel as wide as your box, with short legs to
form the sides?

Here's the old one. It's pretty horrible.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9z8uqsq3let67gs/Tbox_Extrusion_Old.JPG?dl=0

The screw locations are inconsistent and
the self-tapping screws make shavings.

Don't use self-tapping screws. Not only do they make shavings, but they
work loose, and can make new shavings each time the box must be opened
and re-closed.

Self-tappers are bloody awful things that no professional should use.
Use thread-rolling screws instead, e.g. (Note that these are trilobular;
slightly triangular cross-section; the roll the metal aside):
<http://www.shamrockexpress.com/screws-screws-for-metal-pan-head-phillips-steel-zinc-0404rpp.html>


https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpl3dtoapgzd9kp/Tbox_Extrusion.JPG?dl=0
All the tapped holes would be machined in solid areas

Nice, but you don't need to tap the holes (leaving swarf that might or
might not get cleaned off properly) if you use thread-rolling screws.
The first insertion will make the thread without producing swarf.

Clifford Heath.
 
On 10/5/19 3:10 pm, whit3rd wrote:
> Mostly, I find threads in aluminum to be problematic.

Aluminium is so difficult because of the big difference between the
softness of the metal and the hardness of the oxide.
 
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 9:08:13 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 8:06:36 PM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 5:42:53 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2019 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT), jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Can anyone recommend a good, reasonably priced source for small custom
aluminum extrusions?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Try Tendon Manufacturing in Cleveland if that is viable for you. Get ahold of Jim Moderelli and tell him Jeff sent you. He is not necessarily in sales, he is like an all around guy for them. Probably does expediting and whatever because he does go on the road and he does have skills. So that is a reasonable assumption.

https://www.tendon.com/

On their homepage of the graphics, at the top right, or third on because who knows your screen resolution, they give the info.

Actually, if you only need a few pieces and they aren't all that hard I might be able to get them out of there under the table. they do let him do that from time to time. Then all we have to pay is him.

I also got a guy very adept with Rhinoceros and Solidworks. He can probably bust out code faster than almost anyone on those. You probably don't need him though, you probably have the drawings, but if they want any significant extra charges find out why and I can tell him the problem.

It's like - how many pieces are we talking here and what do they look like ? he can do jet engine impellers or coffee pots, where does this stand in that spectrum ?


We're tired of buying stock extruded enclosures that are expensive and
poorly designed. It's time we did our own extrusions. We could buy a
truckload.

It would basically be the sides of something like this

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T564DS.shtml

We'd make the top/bottom/ends out of flat sheets, to make it easier to
work on.

We'll ping Jim. Thanks.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Sometime in the past I recall browsing the various extrusions
that were available...
there were hundreds/ thousands at each extrusion place!

thread bend;
I've got a dream of milling bath-tubs out of aluminum bar stock.
Five sided boxes with a top panel. Nice thick sides
that you can add connectors or heat sink tabs onto the
box. Say a 3" width, 2" depth to the tub. and you could
make various lengths. Like blue pomona boxes, but better.
(and hopefully cheaper.) With small companies you sometimes
have to buy a life time supply of something, to keep the price
down for your customers. (or because the something is going away,
and finding a replacement may not be possible.)

I've always wondered how people know how long they will live to buy a lifetime supply. Or in this case, how they know how long the product will live?

Our products tend to have a long life... say 10-20 years, x average sales
per year x some fudge factor.. depending on price. If it's cheap
might as well by a bunch. If it's spendy you sharpen your pencil.

George H.
--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 

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