End of analog TV

[Claude Hopper]

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.


--
Claude Hopper

? ? Ľ

 

[Peter Hucker]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:36:43 -0000, Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

Depends on your reception. My digital seldom pixelates, and never becomes unwatchable, or silent. My analogue was snowy though, to the point of being irritating.

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[UCLAN]

Claude Hopper wrote:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

Please proofread your posts for spelling/grammar errors. It sure would
be more readable. While you're at it, try boosting your digital signal
away from its current reception threshold. *My* digital signals suffer
from none of the problems you describe above. And I sure don't miss the
video noise that *all* analog video has.

 

[Rodney Pont]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:44:39 -0800, UCLAN wrote:

Claude Hopper wrote:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

While you're at it, try boosting your digital signal
away from its current reception threshold. *My* digital signals suffer
from none of the problems you describe above. And I sure don't miss the
video noise that *all* analog video has.

My ex is in an area (in the UK) where the digital uses the same band as
the analogue so her current loft aerial covers it. The digital signal
has a much lower transmission power than the analogue though so she was
getting the squares and sometimes it was completely unusable. She
bought a cheap mains powered aerial amplifier and that's done the job
for her and she now has no problems at all with sound or vision.

--
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The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

 

[Samuel M. Goldwasser]

Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> writes:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!

--
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Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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[Joerg]

Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:

Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> writes:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!

Same here. Watched a western on a DTV channel last weekend where the
analog signal is no longer available (another DTV station swamps it). An
hour into it the audio cut out, then the usual square blocks appeared,
followed by a frozen Picasso. Great. Just great. I saw half a movie. DTV
doesn't even remotely touch the reliability of analog TV.

I've heard some rumors that DTV stations will increase their power in
February 2009 when analog is gone. Plus I guess there has to be some
channel reshuffling and I wonder how that's all going to play out from
an organizational POV. At least I hope some DTV stations will move to
VHF where the RF path is more reliable. Maybe we can still watch the
evening news then ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Ken Wright]

Does anyone know how wind affects uhf tv propagation?

I have noticed that my digital tv reception gets really bad (pixelation
and dropped sound) when the wind gets strong. ie: 30 to 40 mph with
higher gusts of 50 to 60. It is not my antenna blowing in the wind since
the antenna is in an attic crawspace.

thanks,
kw

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:29:32 -0500, Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:

Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> writes:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

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[CJT]

Joerg wrote:

Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:

Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> writes:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.


I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!


Same here. Watched a western on a DTV channel last weekend where the
analog signal is no longer available (another DTV station swamps it). An
hour into it the audio cut out, then the usual square blocks appeared,
followed by a frozen Picasso. Great. Just great. I saw half a movie. DTV
doesn't even remotely touch the reliability of analog TV.

I've heard some rumors that DTV stations will increase their power in
February 2009 when analog is gone. Plus I guess there has to be some
channel reshuffling and I wonder how that's all going to play out from
an organizational POV. At least I hope some DTV stations will move to
VHF where the RF path is more reliable. Maybe we can still watch the
evening news then ...

It's not a coincidence that cable operators are big supporters of the

switch.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

 

[Joerg]

Ken Wright wrote:

Does anyone know how wind affects uhf tv propagation?

I have noticed that my digital tv reception gets really bad (pixelation
and dropped sound) when the wind gets strong. ie: 30 to 40 mph with
higher gusts of 50 to 60. It is not my antenna blowing in the wind since
the antenna is in an attic crawspace.

The trees around your property and in the path will begin to sway and
clouds move faster. AFAIU the DTV standard our country selected offers
super resolution value but poor multipath tolerance. So when the RF
reflections begin to move about it falls off the digital cliff. IME that
happens quickly, doesn't take too much wind.

We have the very same problem here. A big Fedex freighter lumbers in and
lines up for final approach -> DTV gone for five minutes. Wind picks up,
clouds roll in -> DTV gone, might as well crack out the card game
because then it usually ain't coming back for that night.

My feeling is that field tests were either done hastily or almost not at
all. But the picture quality is truly great. We'll watch "Dancing with
the Stars" again tonight, in 1080 HD that is amazing (if the DTV holds
tonight ...). Just don't move close to the set because the amplitude
granularity is, ahem, totally sub-par. Faces look all the same, as if
they had stockings pulled over them.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

 

[Jamie]

Ken Wright wrote:

Does anyone know how wind affects uhf tv propagation?

I have noticed that my digital tv reception gets really bad (pixelation
and dropped sound) when the wind gets strong. ie: 30 to 40 mph with
higher gusts of 50 to 60. It is not my antenna blowing in the wind since
the antenna is in an attic crawspace.

thanks,
kw

You most likely have some surrounding tree's or structures that
move in the wind.
The antenna does not have to move to see the effects of wind.

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[Dave Platt]

In article <XSoUk.8917$ZP4.5451@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

I've heard some rumors that DTV stations will increase their power in
February 2009 when analog is gone.

From reading the FCC documents, I gather that this is true. Many of
the "transitional" DTV channel assignments have been power-limited, in
order to avoid interference with existing analog (or other digital)
transmissions on the same or adjacent channels.

Plus I guess there has to be some
channel reshuffling and I wonder how that's all going to play out from
an organizational POV.

With quite a bit of complexity. There seem to be at least three
approaches to what will happen on The Day:

- Station drops its current analog assignment entirely, and its
"transitional" DTV channel becomes its permanent assignment.

DTV transmitter power may or may not increase.

DTV transmitter may or may not move from its "transitional"
location to a different location.

- Station drops its current analog assignment completely, and its DTV
transmitter moves from the "transitional" channel to a different
frequency (almost always UHF, sometimes VHF I think).

Some stations will be moving their DTV transmissions to a different
physical site, in order to be able to operate at an interference-free
power level which will let them retain most of their viewership.

- Station drops its "transitional" UHF channel assignment, and
switches its current analog equipment over to digital on the same
frequency.

I suspect that the stations doing this will be keeping their
existing VHF transmitter sites, and just changing out the gear.

At least I hope some DTV stations will move to
VHF where the RF path is more reliable.

A few will be doing so. This seems to be happening mostly in the
urban areas, where the UHF spectrum is quite full.

There are a fair number of stations which will be operating ATSC in
the VHF high-band (channels 7 through 37).

There are only a very few which will be remaining in the VHF low-band
(channels 2 through 6). I understand that remaining on channel 6 and
switching to ATSC is being very much discouraged by the FCC... there
only seem to be one or two stations doing it.

Maybe we can still watch the
evening news then ...

One can hope!

There were some reports posted a few weeks ago of one city's "early
switchover" to ATSC-only. The number of complaints received by the
FCC about loss of signal reception was significant - more than they
had expected, I believe.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

 

[Dave Platt]

Does anyone know how wind affects uhf tv propagation?

UHF is largely line-of-site, with reflections thrown in to complicate
matters.

I have noticed that my digital tv reception gets really bad (pixelation
and dropped sound) when the wind gets strong. ie: 30 to 40 mph with
higher gusts of 50 to 60. It is not my antenna blowing in the wind since
the antenna is in an attic crawspace.

My guess would be that you're seeing the effect of nearby trees
blowing around in the wind. This will cause rapid variations in
multipath cancellation (in effect, moving "echoes" from the moving
leaves) and could be overwhelming the multipath-echo cancellation
logic in the receiver.

If you watch an analog UHF station under these conditions, do you tend
to see "ghost" echoes on the screen which come and go, or move around,
as the wind blows?

Using a highly-directional UHF antenna might reduce the problem -
it'll have a stronger direct signal from the transmitter, and will be
less sensitive to multipath reflections arriving from other angles.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:36:43 -0500, Claude Hopper
<boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was either
working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is those square
boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree the sound is
either on or off and it goes off many times making you loose dialog,
piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit occurs every day on
some channel. I think analog with a little static and snow is better
than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over hyped load of crap.

Comcraptic digital cable is often pixellated and has sound dropouts.
Usually works for 30-60 days after calling a service tech out, then
goes back to not-enough-signal conditions. If they would install an
amplifier ahead of the splitter that feeds three TVs, the problem
would be resolved. That will probably happen as it did when we had
Charter Cable - after enough service calls to pay for the amp 5 times,
they will install the amp. Look for us to have decent cable service
in July of 2009.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <abbxdggj.fsf@seas.upenn.edu>,
Samuel M. Goldwasser <sam@seas.upenn.edu> wrote:

I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!

Are you suggesting that the 'everything else' which has gone wireless
works perfectly at all times?

Surely as regards good reception the same parameters apply to digital as
analogue TV - if you're in a strong signal area you might get away with a
set top aerial, if not you won't?

--
*Husbands should come with instructions

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Samuel M. Goldwasser]

dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) writes:

Does anyone know how wind affects uhf tv propagation?

UHF is largely line-of-site, with reflections thrown in to complicate
matters.

I have noticed that my digital tv reception gets really bad (pixelation
and dropped sound) when the wind gets strong. ie: 30 to 40 mph with
higher gusts of 50 to 60. It is not my antenna blowing in the wind since
the antenna is in an attic crawspace.

My guess would be that you're seeing the effect of nearby trees
blowing around in the wind. This will cause rapid variations in
multipath cancellation (in effect, moving "echoes" from the moving
leaves) and could be overwhelming the multipath-echo cancellation
logic in the receiver.

If you watch an analog UHF station under these conditions, do you tend
to see "ghost" echoes on the screen which come and go, or move around,
as the wind blows?

Using a highly-directional UHF antenna might reduce the problem -
it'll have a stronger direct signal from the transmitter, and will be
less sensitive to multipath reflections arriving from other angles.

That's great if you want to fiddle with an antenna for each channel
or set up a complicated antanna that can be optimized for each
channel.

But a lot of us were very happy with analog TV and all its shortcomings.

To me it is 1000 percent less annoying to see some snow or ghosts
when it's windy or raining or I'm watching a distant channel then to
have the picture freeze or pixelate and the sound to drop out entirely.

And, adjusting an antenna for analog is totally real time.
Move the antanna and its effect is instantaneous. With DTV - at least
what I've seen to far - the only way to really do this is with the
signal strength monitor which might be downa couple of menu levels,
and that's not real time. There is a very significant lag and even
then it doesn't always show what the true situation is.

This is not progress!

--
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Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
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[Samuel M. Goldwasser]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> writes:

In article <abbxdggj.fsf@seas.upenn.edu>,
Samuel M. Goldwasser <sam@seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!

Are you suggesting that the 'everything else' which has gone wireless
works perfectly at all times?

No, but one accepts drop outs as being a great improvement over dragging
a 100 mile long wire along instead of a cell phone.

Surely as regards good reception the same parameters apply to digital as
analogue TV - if you're in a strong signal area you might get away with a
set top aerial, if not you won't?

But the effects of poor reception are dramatically and annoying different.

--
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Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
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[Jim Yanik]

sam@seas.upenn.edu (Samuel M. Goldwasser) wrote in
news:abbxdggj.fsf@seas.upenn.edu:

Claude Hopper <boobooililililil@roadrunner.com> writes:

Some stupid moron on television was explaining the digital was better
than analog because there is no interference. He said digital was
either working or completely off. That is a bunch of crap. What is
those square boxes going across the screen all the time. I'll agree
the sound is either on or off and it goes off many times making you
loose dialog, piss poor for science shows. That pixalating shit
occurs every day on some channel. I think analog with a little static
and snow is better than loosing the entire program. Digital is a over
hyped load of crap.

I'll second and third that!

Where everything else is going wireless, DTV will require that many
people who formerly could use rabbit ears will have to subscribe
to cable or some other wired pay service!

what irks me is that one local station (WKMG)is advertising a DROP in
transmitted power after the conversion.
So,since that channel is marginal now,it will be gone with a drop in power.
I already use an amplified Gemini VHF/UHF antenna.
Being in an apartment,I can't install a better antenna.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Peter Hucker:

Depends on your reception. My digital seldom pixelates, and never becomes unwatchable, or silent. My analogue was snowy though, to the point of being irritating.

I agree with the OP that digital is a step down from analog.

Maybe it's the closet type A in me, but the pause between
channels with digital makes me crazy.

I'm putting off buying a digital TV as long as I can in hopes of
makers recognizing and addressing it in the same way that digital
camera makers recognized and addresses shutter lag.

Maybe, on a high-end set, there could be a half-dozen tuners -
each dedicated to one of the user's favorite stations. Then,
once all the tuners got a lock on their respective signal,
changing between those stations could be as quick as with analog.

Also, if most of one's shows are talking heads, a little snow
doesn't diminish the content; OTOH, the same marginal signal on
digital means you don't get the show at all.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Jim Yanik]

Ken Wright <lwright@inebraska.com> wrote in
newsan.2008.11.18.02.04.28.161000@inebraska.com:

Does anyone know how wind affects uhf tv propagation?

I have noticed that my digital tv reception gets really bad
(pixelation and dropped sound) when the wind gets strong. ie: 30 to 40
mph with higher gusts of 50 to 60. It is not my antenna blowing in
the wind since the antenna is in an attic crawspace.

thanks,
kw

perhaps the wind is affecting the transmitting antenna.
Or disturbing your antenna cable/connections.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <tza55f0x.fsf@seas.upenn.edu>,
Samuel M. Goldwasser <sam@seas.upenn.edu> wrote:

To me it is 1000 percent less annoying to see some snow or ghosts
when it's windy or raining or I'm watching a distant channel then to
have the picture freeze or pixelate and the sound to drop out entirely.

Ah. That's something that doesn't happen in the UK - all the channels are
effectively national. Apart from some short local news. And if you really
must have an out of area one for that they are available everywhere on
satellite.
At one time this wasn't the case - I used to have an extra high gain
aerial pointing in an opposite direction to pick up a different ITV region
- they used to show different films late at night. All one now.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.